NWN 2 OC vs. Pillars of Eternity

[Neanderthal]

Aye can't argue there Roguey, there's not much else to do other than rape trash mobs.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

PoE is to grogs what FO:NV is to Bethestards. It turns out that both groups have always wanted cheesy, extravagant and un-subtle games (both mechanically and narratively) - just wrapped in different ways.

For a balance fag you strangely always seem to view things in extremes. There's a middle ground between Pallegina and Minsc or between having stuff like Crom Fyer/Robe of Vecna and souless MMO itemization where you don't remember any item afterwards (because of mundane effects and your enchanted rusty sword of destruction being much better), just like no pickpocketing is not necessarily better than a pickpocketing feature that could use a lot of improvement.

Also, PoE is far more casual friendly than any IE game (aside from PST but atleast not being able to die there was a major part of the plot) so your FO:NV comparison doesn't hold much water in that context, a contingent of Beth tards didn't oppose FO:NV just because it wasn't theme parky enough but because its difficulty (while still extremely easy) wasn't entirely non-existent and it actually featured some C&C (not being able to see all of the content in one go is a big no no in modern gaming industry).

You likening grogs to people who like to waltz through the game using a built in cheat mod (VATS) is pretty lulzy. Especially when we're mostly talking about IE grogs that use mods like SCS and Ascension that make Pillars of Eternal tanking and spanking look like a walk in the park.

What's incredible is that you'd expect cheesy and extravagant to sell more, but somehow Josh keeps on knocking them out of the park!

Yay, Skyrim sold 10 million copies, it must be a majestic game. Also Fallout 3 is better than Fallout 1&2 because it had much more commercial success. Josh is such a genius saviour of RPGs, I wanna have his babies.

 

[Jools]

PoE's got nothing on NWN2OC, so, I'm for the latter, hands down.

Combat is banashitboring in both, the systems are much better in NWN2 (at least it's original D&D, rather than a cheap ripoff), the story is slightly less meh in NWN2 (actually, it's not -that- terrible), the writing is roughly on par, with NWN2's being constantly "average-to-ok", whereas PoE's being a rollercoaster ranging from "irritating" to "decent".

 

[Volrath]

Yeah, I didn't like that. Felt too OP.

There's a bunch of stuff in the IE games that I avoided because it felt like cheating, like the same feel you get when doing the combat mambo in Grimrock. That includes using certain spells. I really like PoE's balanced spells because when I use them I get that feel of "Yeah, this is about as powerful as it should be, this feels fair, I deserve the victory I'll get from this". Although Kalakoth's Minor Blights makes me feel uneasy!

What in the actual fuck

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

At least in NWN2 Rogues are the only base class that gets those skills as class skills, while everyone else must pay 2 points per skill level, or spend talents. That's a big difference that has a lot of meaning, even in the OC.

Infinitron is wrong anyway. Everybody can put points in disable device in DnD but they can only disarm the simplest traps. Just because you can also put points in some skills doesn't mean you can match a rogue in said skills. Rogues also gain trap sense with increasing bonuses as they level up. No fighter can disarm magical traps regardless of his disable device score.

Trapfinding
Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20.

Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

A rogue who beats a trap’s DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with her party) without disarming it.

 

[Immortal]

The codex: remembering shit games fondly, because something worse came out.

NWN 2 is a great game.
Nobody should have bought it for the Original Campaign and if you did, I'm so sorry.

 

[Lhynn]

NWN 2 is a great game.
Nobody should have bought it for the Original Campaign and if you did, I'm so sorry.

Nope, its actually a shit game that happens to have a crap OC. The camera, the poor optimization, the poor modding support.

Only real thing it has going for itself is the two good expansions and that it got and good implementation of the rules.

 

[Immortal]

Nope, its actually a shit game that happens to have a crap OC. The camera, the poor optimization, the poor modding support.

Only real thing it has going for itself is the two good expansions and that it got and good implementation of the rules.

• poor modding support?
  • You can literally override anything / add anything.
• Poor Optimization?
  • Maybe at launch but it was fine by the time MOTB dropped.. Don't blame the engine for bad mod makers who don't know how to properly use static objects or bake a level.
• Poor Camera?
  • Why do people bitch about the camera, there was a setting in the options menu to have it work identical to any modern MMO with full panning / zoom control.

 

[Animal]

• Poor Camera?
  • Why do people bitch about the camera, there was a setting in the options menu to have it work identical to any modern MMO with full panning / zoom control.

For me it's trying to manage a party. It was fine in NWN1, because you only controled one character. When it forces you to jump between party members, you get all sorts of weird angles and it is frustrating.

That's my experience, at least.

 

[Immortal]

For me it's trying to manage a party. It was fine in NWN1, because you only controled one character. When it forces you to jump between party members, you get all sorts of weird angles and it is frustrating.

That's my experience, at least.

It's an issue for sure.. but how else would you handle a camera that is a third person view over the shoulder?
They had a tactical camera you -could- use for managing a larger party a little better.

I see what your saying though and I can understand this position better but as you said - the alternative is having a single retard companion that follows you around and attacks random shit and you have no control over their inventory or build.
I'll take the inconvenient camera if that's the alternative.

 

[Lhynn]

• poor modding support?
  • You can literally override anything / add anything.

Meh, it has like 3 decent mods and they still were a pai to install and make work

• Poor Optimization?
  • Maybe at launch but it was fine by the time MOTB dropped.. Don't blame the engine for bad mod makers who don't know how to properly use static objects or bake a level.

To this day it still runs kinda like ass even on the official modules. But sure, w/e

• Poor Camera?
  • Why do people bitch about the camera, there was a setting in the options menu to have it work identical to any modern MMO with full panning / zoom control.

Too sensible and temperamental, plus jumping from character to character was shaite.

Stop being an apologist you fgt.

 

[markec]

Just because NWN2 looks great when compared to PoE but that doesnt mean its a great game by itself. NWN2 is a pretty underwhelming game with few good bits nothing more.

 

[Animal]

I actually liked PoE's look. A lot.

Too bad the gameplay and writing was boring.

 

[felipepepe]

I'm playing NWN2 today, fully patched, and the game still loves to teleport my character around, make him run backwards before attacking an enemy right in front of him and make my companions lose their AI and not even follow me around anymore unless I restart the game.

It's a very odd thing that no unofficial patch exists... is like modders gave up altogether.

 

[Immortal]

Meh, it has like 3 decent mods and they still were a pai to install and make work

Lack of community != Poor Moddability. The game supports full resource overrides it just doesn't have the following of a Bethesda game.
99% of mods are literally dragging files to the override folder, the game handles the rest. Sometimes it's a bit more convoluted if a mod requires a modification to the module.

To this day it still runs kinda like ass even on the official modules. But sure, w/e

Maybe you should upgrade your 16 bit potato for those new fangled vidya games. I had zero issues years ago except with water reflection turned on..
Today I just have zero issues.

Too sensible and temperamental, plus jumping from character to character was shaite.

Stop being an apologist you fgt.

You can adjust the camera sensitivity.
I don't defend shit, people who talk out their ass about modding tools and have never even fired up the toolset are trying a bit hard though.

I'm playing NWN2 today, fully patched, and the game still loves to teleport my character around, make him run backwards before attacking an enemy right in front of him and make my companions lose their AI and not even follow me around anymore unless I restart the game.

It's a very odd thing that no unofficial patch exists... is like modders gave up altogether.

I have this issue online sometimes.. when they are running their RP server 64/64 players on a personal computer.. Never see this happen playing a single player mod unless the module has a baking issue and the character can't path find correctly. (Not so much the glitching backwards thing.. just the sort of jerking when running)

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

Anybody who likes the Josh Sawyer/Fallout: New Vegas style of "historyfag"-oriented setting design should enjoy interacting with the The Crucible Knights and The Dozens. "Lawful good" yet somewhat ostentatious/corrupt nobles vs populist nationalists. And then there's the Doemenels as an additional choice. Great stuff.

''Historical'' lawful good

 

[Lhynn]

Lack of community != Poor Moddability. The game supports full resource overrides it just doesn't have the following of a Bethesda game.
99% of mods are literally dragging files to the override folder, the game handles the rest. Sometimes it's a bit more convoluted if a mod requires a modification to the module.

Meh, not really, half the mods i tried were borked in one way or another. It was a pain in the ass to install one and a fucking adventure making it work. And they were all mostly shit anyway.

Maybe you should upgrade your 16 bit potato for those new fangled vidya games. I had zero issues years ago except with water reflection turned on..
Today I just have zero issues.

Ah yes, the "your rig is the problem" answer.

You can adjust the camera sensitivity.
I don't defend shit, people who talk out their ass about modding tools and have never even fired up the tool set are trying a bit hard though.

I did, even from the ini, still is a temperamental bitch. You may have played long enough to get used to this crap, but every time i come back to this game its the same fucking shit.

 

[felipepepe]

I have this issue online sometimes.. when they are running their RP server 64/64 players on a personal computer.. Never see this happen playing a single player mod unless the module has a baking issue and the character can't path find correctly. (Not so much the glitching backwards thing.. just the sort of jerking when running)

I'm playing the OC...

 

[Lhynn]

I'm playing the OC...

Why? fucks sake man, why do this to yourself?

 

[Seari]

While OC is very poorly optimized, MotB runs great on my rig.

 

[Immortal]

I'm playing the OC...

I dunno, Me or my friends never had any issue playing the OC.

EDIT:
Other then the shit story / level design / tropey companions

Meh, not really, half the mods i tried were borked in one way or another. It was a pain in the ass to install one and a fucking adventure making it work. And they were all mostly shit anyway.

Ah yes, the "your rig is the problem" answer.

I did, even from the ini, still is a temperamental bitch. You may have played long enough to get used to this crap, but every time i come back to this game its the same fucking shit.

All trolling aside, I can't refute your argument when you say "Game runs like shit".. It runs fine for me. I can't also argue that the mods you installed weren't shit.. maybe they were?

The capability to mod the game is there. There are several mods like the PRC package that is literally a click and drag and opens up like 20 new classes.
Or a UI overhaul that makes the standard UI pretty awesome (no not that shitty reskinning one.. The other overhaul), again it's like a folder of .2da files that go in your override folder.

What else can I say, your argument is now all opinionated.

Even if the game supports mods, you just fall back to "well I think it's shit".. K..?
It's still a easily moddable game with a customizable camera. Whether you personally are able to deal with it is irrelevant. I can't argue your personal feels.

 

[felipepepe]

Why? fucks sake man, why do this to yourself?

For the book bro, for the book...

 

[Lhynn]

The capability to mod the game is there. There are several mods like the PRC package that is literally a click and drag and opens up like 20 new classes.
Or a UI overhaul that makes the standard UI pretty awesome (no not that shitty reskinning one.. The other overhaul), again it's like a folder of .2da files that go in your override folder.

What else can I say, your argument is now all opinionated.

Even if the game supports mods, you just fall back to "well I think it's shit".. K..?
It's still a easily moddable game with a customizable camera. Whether you personally are able to deal with it is irrelevant. I can't argue your personal feels.

Actually by mods i meant modules, and ive tried p. much everything that was up back in 2012, they were a pain to install and make work, and not stable at all, often scripts broke or maps never finished loading.

Kaedrins pack is p. amazing. UI i dont care much for, its shitty but not a game breaker. Camera tho, extremelty sensitive no matter how i modified the game, if you know of any mod to actually fix it directly please let me know.

Loading times are too god damn long, over 30 seconds. I actually left a MotB run unfinished because i got tired of that crap.

 

[Semper]

I'm playing NWN2 today, fully patched, and the game still loves to teleport my character around, make him run backwards before attacking an enemy right in front of him and make my companions lose their AI and not even follow me around anymore unless I restart the game.

sometimes this forum puts me in a depressed state. playing an rpg in character mode with direct controls and relying on companion ai...when the game has a working tactical camera, puppet mode and marquee selection. good god.

and don't get me startet on "extracting 3-4 files to 2-3 folders is a pain to install".

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

This is utterly retarded, and each point of it is bullshit.


What? It makes sense just like in any RPG. You are a band of people pursuing bad guys and helping people.

Fucking what?

WHAT? How does it makes less sense than for example in D&D? There are people who can tap into their souls and use its power to cast magic. In D&D you spell arcane words to cast magic. Which is better and why?


What is the purpose of magic in any game ever?


Umm, no. They matered in this particular story, but the common people don't give a shit about it, they just acknowledge that they exist and there is reincarnation.


What complexitiy you want? We saw souls travelliing from one person to another, we saw past souls awakening, driving people mad, we saw souls shattering, we saw them collected and used it to foul things. Yes, they are important, but what is the problem with that?

And I will laugh at anyone who expects that the first iteration of a fresh fantasy setting is more complex than one which had 3 decades to evolve.

1. The world is far more organised than even the Sword coast and there's not much to do than pillage ruins. Forgotten realms is a clusterfuck. Here you have Radceras in the north, clean border with Dyrwood, a not so clean border with the confederation of tribe in the woods and most likely a clean border with Nigerian free cities in the south. It's as dull as 19th century USA, which was Sawyer's inspiration. There's no place for them beyond being glorified caravan bodyguards and pillagers of native ressources. The exception of skaen cultists in a village and your stronghold the entire country feels empty.

2. Magic spells are a side attraction compared to the souls. You see very little magic at work in the world beyond a few mages here and there. Actually are there even a few mages NPC here and there?

3. Even thought Sawyer aimed to be more dull but realistic, the little care people give souls, even those who work on them, is grotesque. Forgotten realm is whimsical from the premise so they can get reasonably away with everything. Here it's a dissonance.

4. System wise there was nothing you could do with it.

5. He only had to focus on a single region with a team of writers. The lore was obviously not their focus if they had any at all.