NWN 2 OC vs. Pillars of Eternity

[Jasede]

Ah just give it up. The game and the system are both shit and all your shilling won't change it.

 

[Delterius]

You get six points per level-up, so that's four level-ups. A rogue can have has his Mechanics at 8 at the same level other classes might have them at 6. Doesn't sound impressive?

Not really because...

From what I'm seeing, there are lots of good locked chests in Defiance Bay with their difficulty set at 8-ish. Arrive there early enough, and you'll need to rely on inns to open them if you don't have a Rogue, and maybe not even that will help if you haven't specialized enough.

The big deal of having a Rogue is that you may not have sleep at an inn to unlock some whatever chest.

And that is when the 'you can do whatever you want =D' philosophy goes to such an extreme.

Meanwhile, you can use a Thief to steal powerful weapons and armor from the shops at Waukeen's Promenade.

 

[Seari]

doritos

 

[Angthoron]

Not really because...

The big deal of having a Rogue is that you may not have sleep at an inn to unlock some whatever chest.

Hire Custom Adventurer ---> Mechanics ----> Unlock shit ----> Dump to Keep "task" duties.

 

[Infinitron]

The big deal of having a Rogue is that you may not have sleep at an inn to unlock some whatever chest.

Again, may not help if you've tried to specialize in both Stealth and Mechanics with a non-Rogue (ie, make an archetypal Rogue out of a non-Rogue). Not to mention other skills you might want.

That said, I imagine this system could have better ~feels~ for y'all if there was a skill that felt as "must-have" for say, martial characters as Stealth and Mechanics do for Rogues. Make it less tempting to go all out with Mechanics on a non-Rogue. Athletics doesn't quite cut it.

Meanwhile, you can use a Thief to steal powerful weapons and armor from the shops at Waukeen's Promenade.

Yeah, I didn't like that. Felt too OP.

There's a bunch of stuff in the IE games that I avoided because it felt like cheating, like the same feel you get when doing the combat mambo in Grimrock. That includes using certain spells. I really like PoE's balanced spells because when I use them I get that feel of "Yeah, this is about as powerful as it should be, this feels fair, I deserve the victory I'll get from this". Although Kalakoth's Minor Blights makes me feel uneasy!

 

[Jasede]

God forbid classes can do things that are powerful, unique and cool.

 

[felipepepe]

I really like PoE's balanced spells because when I use them I get that feel of "Yeah, this is about as powerful as it should be, this feels fair, I deserve the victory I'll get from this".

This explains so much...

 

[Karwelas]

I had more fun with NWN 2 OC by a mile. That's because of a few reasons:

* Standard D&D character building is rewarding
* I had MOTB to look forward to
* Some decent set pieces, like the final battle and the trial
* Some good conversations, mainly with Bishop and Sand

Add damn Ammon voice to that, he really have fucking voice of damn warlock, not some pussy. (In potato version it is even better. Rare thing, but really good. We have some games that dubbling is just damn better then orginal versions. BGs, NWNs, Sacrifice, Stronghold and some other games. Mostly everything dubbed by old CD Project)

Another thing to add - both games are terrible in some aspects, but PoE is little bit... wrong in some aspects. This is why NWN 2 won. And it also won becouse it have MotB

PS - Actually, you aren't chosen one in NWN2. It is confirmed by lore that preety much everyone with enough shards of Silver Blade could 'reforge' it again if he would know how and have will strong enough to do that. (Psionic would be best, high wisdom). Just kill that hero cunt, cut shard out of his chest and make it yourself!

 

[Jasede]

I forgot the Warlock, he was a great character, too. Once he joins the game really takes a turn for the better.

 

[Lhynn]

The codex: remembering shit games fondly, because something worse came out.

 

[Infinitron]

I've been saying for a while that NWN2 OC is bad, but at the same time also underrated. If it takes PoE to make some people realize than that, then good job I guess

 

[Delterius]

Again, may not help if you've tried to specialize in both Stealth and Mechanics with a non-Rogue (ie, make an archetypal Rogue out of a non-Rogue). Not to mention other skills you might want.

So, how much of a rogueish Han Solo did you feel when you made the empowering choice of wasting points on Stealth and then Slept on an Inn to be able to unlock a hypothetical chest that doesn't exist in this 'Be free to do whatever =D' kind of game?

Yeah, I didn't like that. Felt too OP.

Funny that you should mention this personal distaste of yours, but do you even know what you did? You Made a Choice.

An Actual Choice.

You saw at what a thieving character archetype does to the game and said 'know what, this makes for a poor, boring, story'.

Others saw the same thing as you and thought 'this is awesome! I feel like a thief, you know!'.

I don't know about you, but this horrible, fugly ugly straightjacket AD&D system sounds way more interesting than another one of those "Choose your own form of DPS" games we get every day.

 

[Infinitron]

Oh come on, clicking a button on the IE store interface and hoping the dice roll doesn't catch you was hardly thrilling gameplay. I might have engaged in thievery if there was some core gameplay behind it (actually sneaking into rooms in the game and stealing stuff).

In fact, I did do that, and still do - I was pleasantly surprised to learn that PoE also supports line-of-sight house burglary, where you wait for all NPCs to leave a room, shut the door and rob all the chests in it without losing rep.

So, how much of a rogueish Han Solo did you feel when you made the empowering choice of wasting points on Stealth and then Slept on an Inn to be able to unlock a hypothetical chest that doesn't exist in this 'Be free to do whatever =D' kind of game?

My companions couldn't do it, so rogueish enough I guess?

 

[Lhynn]

Infinitron I personally dont care to reevaluate banal shit boring games when something worse comes out. I play really shitty games, sometimes i find one or two with interesting ideas, but i never find myself thinking "this shit game makes that shit game look less shit", i honestly dont give a crap. (I do it often with poe tho, just because i find it hilarious)

PoE is by any measure a bad rpg, its systems dont work, its narrative doesnt work, its only good points come from a theoretical standpoint "ive always wanted these elements together so it must mean its good", but it flops the execution badly, wasting said elements in a painful way.

Its made out of good intentions and a patronizing retard that fails to comprehend what makes RPGs fun to play. And the problem is that NO ONE WITH A BRAIN asked for this and so the butthurt ensued.

You call us "grogs", i say get your head out of your ass.

 

[Infinitron]

PoE is to grogs what FO:NV is to Bethestards. It turns out that both groups have always wanted cheesy, extravagant and un-subtle games (both mechanically and narratively) - just wrapped in different ways.

What's incredible is that you'd expect cheesy and extravagant to sell more, but somehow Josh keeps on knocking them out of the park!

 

[Delterius]

I might have engaged in thievery if there was some core gameplay behind it (actually sneaking into rooms in the game and stealing stuff).

Congratulations, you have just stumbled into the most basic truth of all: Content is King. That is how you 'fix' the thieving archetype, not reducing the game to different forms of a DPS race.

And when it comes to content, one thing is certain. You can engage in thieving in BG2. Doing so is a direct attribute of your character. Said choice is also so powerful that you, personally, believed it broke the game and chose otherwise. Others chose differently. That's what RPGs should be about.

In PoE, there's no thieving in town.

But thank God its all a balanced, smooth, sleep inducing ride =D.

 

[Infinitron]

In PoE, there's no thieving in town.

Didn't I just explain that there is? You can do some BG1-style house burglary. Liked doing it in that Brackenbury manor without alerting the guards. With a good enough Stealth skill you can loot the entire floor.

That's what RPGs should be about.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I disagree.

 

[Delterius]

Didn't I just explain that there is? You can do some BG1-style house burglary. Liked doing it in that Brackenbury manor without alerting the guards. With a good enough Stealth skill you can loot the entire floor.

That's not what we are talking about. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But if you must change the subject, then I guess a good enough sleep is as good as a character who dedicates his whole life to thieving. One hurrah for the smooth ride. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Seari]

Not really because...
Meanwhile, you can use a Thief to steal powerful weapons and armor from the shops at Waukeen's Promenade.

You can't. You can only steal from the merchants that only sell spells and from the inkeeper in Copper Coronet.

 

[Delterius]

You can't. You can only steal from the merchants that only sell spells and from the inkeeper in Copper Coronet.

That's a boring addition from ToB, I'm afraid.

 

[Neanderthal]

Never got the hate the Thief recieved, he was undoubted master of the city, had contacts no one else had, could speak the language of the streets, go where no one else could with his wall climbing and stealth, could rob and even assassinate (remember percentage chances of doing that?) You also had fastest level advancement of any class, okay you weren't as good in Thaco but this could be evened up with the superior loot you got (good Thief always saved best for himself,) and fact that he was three or four levels above the rest of the party. I really liked that playstyle, appear when you want to, choose your target, prepare and win fight before you begin. Made sense to me, pity that everybody has to copy WOW now, still I suppose that's a lot easier than making unique content.

Then again apart from Arcanum and Fallout what CRPG does implement side content for Thieves? Maybe Ultima, robbing the Royal Mint was a great little self appointed quest.

 

[Roguey]

Haha I see this has become yet another "grognard airing of grievances" thread.

I like how the new designers at Obsidian were able to put together a more professional product than NWN2, which had incompetently-placed encounter triggers and spawn points as if it were an amateur mod.

 

[Neanderthal]

Don't know about that, not really got any grievances against either PoE or NWN2, they don't really inspire any strong feelings whatsoever. Probably am a Grognard I suppose though. As I said I think Rogues misnamed, but it's not like I really care, just a pity that WOW has to be emulated so much when I thought the old Thief was a pretty good archetype. Still least said soonest mended.

 

[Roguey]

PoE and D:OS style rogues are extremely ftw and I'm glad "one of the classes in this combat-focused game should be bad at combat" was taken out and shot.

 

[Ninjerk]