Neverwinter Nights - why are you guys so negative ?

[Sarvis]

I'm doing it because this is the first time I've had to defend my dislike of NVN. Most of the Vet's on the board have done it plenty of times. For example:

*snip*

There are four threads involving NWN, and I only stopped because I was bored. You didn't seem willing to do the legwork, so now there is no excuse as to why you can't read these threads.

That's not my point at all.

If you guys are sick of these threads, the fine. One person could have replied with the list you just quoted.

Instead we get a bunch of 6 year olds like Sheriff calling everyone who likes NWN an idiot and just being an asshole in general.

And it is ALWAYS like this when Bioware comes up, or at least it seems this way.

First response to the first thread you posted:

Good for you, having poor taste is an American pasttime.

Insult to both the poster and Americans in general.

Here's an initial post flaming Bioware in your third thread:

I could continue. But what's the point? This sounds so derivative, you couldn't make it up. What a fucking piss-take.

What's really funny is that he's trying to point out BIOWARE's unoriginality by complaining about SoU, which was developed by a different company!

And here's a great reply two posts into your fourth thread:

NWN sucks cause it killed my parents and raped my dog and is hiding somewhere in Canada to avoid prosecution.

My point here isn't that you guys should love NWN or anything, it's that there is some unreasoned hatred for Bioware and NWN around here. Sure, some of you don't like it for your own reasons. But overall there is a vast feeling of crowd following going on here, with a good number of you being unable to offer any defense of your NWN dislike other than:

you really are an incredible fucking loser

Having dealt with the argument before doesn't excuse this kind of behavior. Hell, even on Darwintalk.com people aren't this rude to every first time creationist that comes along and posts the same damn reason why the Bible should be taken literally, then links to answersingenesis.org.

It's not like you guys are the only ones who see topics come up repeatedly you know.

 

[Sarvis]

Two different games asshole, one that stuck to it's premise with an 18 month development cycle using it's publishers beta testers and the other a game that never quite decided what it wanted to be that an over five fucking year development cycle and 50 in house beta testers..big fucking, no gigantic fucking difference
regardless of each games short commings ToEE, wins hands down in amount of my personal time wasted or enjoyed playing it.

You are still making complaints about NWN that could apply to ToEE.

While I'm glad that you spent more time on ToEE, I can almost gaurantee I won't be. I'm nearly through the game now and I can't think of any reason whatsoever to play through again... which means maybe 30-40 hours playtime compared to the year and a half of constant playing NWN offered me.

Look I've illustrated my point on numerous threads other than here. I've basically said the same things Jedi is spelling out for you point by point, Are you really this fucking stupid that you can't comprehend where I am coming from other than your lame ass teenage flamebait?, you really are an incredible fucking loser
I don't like the game, you do.., you don't like my reasons, so what, FUCK YOU, I don't like your pathetic existence.

Odd, you seemed to be saying something completely different with your first post... and once that was challenged reverted to nothing more than childish insults. Had you actually had other points, why not make them?

It amazes me. Really.

Seriously, how many times have I insulted you in this discussion? Yet you have to insult me every couple sentences. Do you really think this is the best way to get your point across?

 

[Jedi359]

If you guys are sick of these threads, the fine. One person could have replied with the list you just quoted

Why? Why bother answering yet another goddamn person who claims the game is great? They've already answered your questions at least four times. They've said their points over and over again. Just because it's a fresh issue to you doesn't mean that your points are anything special. It's not worth covering again. Anyone who wants to bring it up can simply look up the old threads. Why do you feel your points should deserve anymore special attention than those did?

Why don't you get the hell off the Codex? It doesn't seem like you can handle the heat. This forum isn't for well versed, intellectual discussion. It's for people who are goddamned angry about something, and aren't afraid to let you know it.

 

[Sarvis]

If you guys are sick of these threads, the fine. One person could have replied with the list you just quoted

Why? Why bother answering yet another goddamn person who claims the game is great? They've already answered your questions at least four times. They've said their points over and over again. Just because it's a fresh issue to you doesn't mean that your points are anything special. It's not worth covering again. Anyone who wants to bring it up can simply look up the old threads. Why do you feel your points should deserve anymore special attention than those did?

Why don't you get the hell off the Codex? It doesn't seem like you can handle the heat. This forum isn't for well versed, intellectual discussion. It's for people who are goddamned angry about something, and aren't afraid to let you know it.

ROFL!!!

Nice revertion there.

Again, this isn't even my thread.

Again, if you guys are so sick of it then why is this thread now 4 pages long?

If you are truly that sick of it, why don't YOU get off the forum? Because we both know in a few weeks the topic will show up again from someone else who just came to RPGCodex, and you will all be just as pissy and immature about it when it happens.

Here, I'll even make it simple for you:

Keep that list of threads you posted to me... next time the subject comes up again post those threads and have some moderator or something lock the thread. Because while you may claim my points aren't fresh, yours are even more stale.

 

[Jed]

NWN and its expansions are mediocre CrPGs with hackneyed plots, little opportunity to roleplay anything other than goody-two-shoes or greedy-jerk-that-does-the-same-thing-as-the-good-guy-but-asks-for-the-money-up-front, aka "evil." The combat model is almost completely uninteractive, and really fucking boring, the rules implementation is atrocious at best. The AI, especially that of henchmen, is some of the stupidiest I've ever seen in a game. And in the end, there's little to the game other than combat.

Sorry, Sarvis, "bring me these four items" does not equal a quality roleplaying experience.

And on the art tip, I'll say the 3d is passable, but the 2d is a serious step down from previous BioWare efforts.

So, there's the tip of the iceberg for my reasons for hating NWN. Why don't you now tell us why you think it's the BEST GAEM EVAR!

If you are truly that sick of it, why don't YOU get off the forum? Because we both know in a few weeks the topic will show up again from someone else who just came to RPGCodex, and you will all be just as pissy and immature about it when it happens.

Because we live here, you fucking moron. Just because some loudmouth moron walks up on my porch and starts shitting all over the place doesn't mean I pack it up move to another town. No, unfortunately it means I have to deal with cleaning up the shit. Another day, another wingnut drops by to tell us how bad we suck for not being tools to whatever dev house he's the fanboy of. So fuck off, you aren't special. You're just another entry in a long line. When you're tired, you'll leave, and another will take your place and we'll still be here.

 

[Sheriff05]

Seriously, how many times have I insulted you in this discussion? Yet you have to insult me every couple sentences. Do you really think this is the best way to get your point across?

Who's says Im trying to make a point? by page 4 of stupid trolling thread #756 started by naive jackass #211 and picked up by Bio-whore, Internet Noob #1025 (that'd be you)
I'm here only to flame you.

By the way your very presence insults me as well your posts and your back handed flames "lonely D&D rules lawyer", "6-year old", etc..you know, the shit college kids who think they're too smart for their own good come up with.


By the way can one of the admin change my post count title to "asshole in general'??
that way guys like this will get my point a bit faster and we'll save some bandwidth.
thanks.

 

[Sarvis]

NWN and its expansions are mediocre CrPGs with hackneyed plots, little opportunity to roleplay anything other than goody-two-shoes or greedy-jerk-that-does-the-same-thing-as-the-good-guy-but-asks-for-the-money-up-front, aka "evil." The combat model is almost completely uninteractive, and really fucking boring, the rules implementation is atrocious at best. The AI, especially that of henchmen, is some of the stupidiest I've ever seen in a game. And in the end, there's little to the game other than combat.

Sorry, Sarvis, "bring me these four items" does not equal a quality roleplaying experience.

And on the art tip, I'll say the 3d is passable, but the 2d is a serious step down from previous BioWare efforts.

So, there's the tip of the iceberg for my reasons for hating NWN. Why don't you now tell us why you think it's the BEST GAEM EVAR!

I never said it was the best game ever. I said I liked it, and that you guys offer far more insults than reasons for disliking it.

As for plot and RP, I don't remember there being much room for that in classics like the old Gold Box games either. I don't care too much about the rules implementation, since I've never been a huge fan of D&D rules... and while the combat can be tedious at times I enjoy the character building and story aspects found in many of the fan created modules. You are completely right about the AI, although I wouldn't necessarily say it was the stupidest as I consider ALL AI to be incredibly bad. I hate any game automatically where your "party" must be AI controlled, and would probably hate NWN as much as you guys if not for one thing:

You aren't forced to take a henchmen along.

Because we live here, you fucking moron. Just because some loudmouth moron walks up on my porch and starts shitting all over the place doesn't mean I pack it up move to another town. No, unfortunately it means I have to deal with cleaning up the shit. Another day, another wingnut drops by to tell us how bad we suck for not being tools to whatever dev house he's the fanboy of. So fuck off, you aren't special. You're just another entry in a long line. When you're tired, you'll leave, and another will take your place and we'll still be here.

I never said you suck because you don't like Bioware, or any other company. I said you suck because you are incapable of either ignoring those wingnuts or providing valid reasons for your dislike.

Well, actually I didn't say you suck...

Here's a hint on being more mature though:

If you guys had stopped posting two pages ago this thread would be over already!

See how that works? You don't like a subject, so you ignore it and it doesn't drag on for four pages?

Hell, you could have done that when the topic first appeared and saved us a lot of time.

Instead you had to act like 8 year olds and start insulting everyone who likes NWN.

 

[Jed]

You're such a drama queen. Get over it.

You think anyone here cares if you (or anyone on the internet) calls them "immature"? I'm nearly 30, and trust me, I've gotten through life pretty well without the Maturity Police keeping me in line.

If you guys had stopped posting two pages ago this thread would be over already!

See how that works? You don't like a subject, so you ignore it and it doesn't drag on for four pages?

Hell, you could have done that when the topic first appeared and saved us a lot of time.

Take your own advice. Don't let the door smack your ass on the way out.

 

[Jedi359]

As for plot and RP, I don't remember there being much room for that in classics like the old Gold Box games either.

Never played them, can't say. All I can say is that NWN's plot was, IMO, bad. Simple as that.

I don't care too much about the rules implementation, since I've never been a huge fan of D&D rules

Not really a rebuttle of the point, simply you claiming that you don't like the DnD ruleset.

and while the combat can be tedious at times I enjoy the character building and story aspects found in many of the fan created modules.

Again, not a rebuttle of the point. You're arguing something wholly different.

You aren't forced to take a henchmen along.

You really are, at least for the caster classes. Without a strong tank, you're going to be screwed over.

In essence, you didn't really rebuke any of my points, simply claimed that they did not matter to you.

If you guys had stopped posting two pages ago this thread would be over already!

See how that works? You don't like a subject, so you ignore it and it doesn't drag on for four pages?

Hell, you could have done that when the topic first appeared and saved us a lot of time.

Instead you had to act like 8 year olds and start insulting everyone who likes NWN.

Why don't you stop making posts, then? The Vets of this forum have repatedly said, "I don't want to go through this again. Look up the old thread, and just shut up about NWN." Rather than do this, you insist on continually goading them, telling them that they aren't justifing themselves. You also keep posting about how everyone is SO insulting and imature, yet you keep posting here anyway. If you don't like the forum, leave.

Why don't you take the initiative, if it's so important to you, and stop posting here?

 

[baelstren]

Sarvis, your posts are as stale as your favorite developer's game designs. Time to return to the lame-ass, shit for brains hole* you came from.

* This link is custom content for Sarvis's eyes only.

 

[Sarvis]

As for plot and RP, I don't remember there being much room for that in classics like the old Gold Box games either.

Never played them, can't say. All I can say is that NWN's plot was, IMO, bad. Simple as that.

I don't care too much about the rules implementation, since I've never been a huge fan of D&D rules

Not really a rebuttle of the point, simply you claiming that you don't like the DnD ruleset.

and while the combat can be tedious at times I enjoy the character building and story aspects found in many of the fan created modules.

Again, not a rebuttle of the point. You're arguing something wholly different.

You aren't forced to take a henchmen along.

You really are, at least for the caster classes. Without a strong tank, you're going to be screwed over.

In essence, you didn't really rebuke any of my points, simply claimed that they did not matter to you.

I wasn't trying to rebuke your points. You asked why I thought NWN was the best game ever, and though I don't think it is I gave reasons that I do like it.

Why don't you stop making posts, then? The Vets of this forum have repatedly said, "I don't want to go through this again. Look up the old thread, and just shut up about NWN." Rather than do this, you insist on continually goading them, telling them that they aren't justifing themselves. You also keep posting about how everyone is SO insulting and imature, yet you keep posting here anyway. If you don't like the forum, leave.

Why don't you take the initiative, if it's so important to you, and stop posting here?

Perhaps because I'm not the one complaining constantly about being sick of this ?

I'm not sick of this. When I am I will stop posting.

You guys ARE sick of this, or so you claim, yet you keep posting.


xJEDx

I'm a drama queen? I'm not the people who take it as a personal insult whenever someone says NWN is a good game!


baelstren

You've just done so much to improve the maturity level on this board! THANK YOU!

Once again, for those of you who seem determined to prove it for me, my point:

People on these boards seem to have no other reason to hate NWN than herd mentality, and are unable to back up their dislike for the game with anything but personal insults directed at everyone who does like the game.


You're so sick of hearing that, I'm sure... now let's count how many of you reply to this post with more flames!

 

[baelstren]

NWN's shortcomings as I (and some others) see it:

- gameplay
- character development
- combat
- story
- (for some) graphics

Two things have happened in this thread:
1. Various folks pointing one or two of the above items in their posts
2. Your continual lack of understanding

There's always more flame coming if you want some.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

People on these boards seem to have no other reason to hate NWN than herd mentality, and are unable to back up their dislike for the game with anything but personal insults directed at everyone who does like the game.

I assume that by 'herd mentality' you are implying that people who dislike it in these boards all follow the same reasons for hating the game, when it would seem that the people who have answered in this thread have shown various reasons. People don't dislike NWN just because someone else does; at least, that is not the picture I get.

Additionally, some of the people who have posted on this thread have not insulted you in any way when explaining their motives. Either you're playing dense, or you can't help being so yourself.


I'm inclined to believe that every single person who comes here with the same question (or similar ones) as a hight tendency to spots insults being thrown at them, but tend to be impervious to actual answers.

 

[Sarvis]

I assume that by 'herd mentality' you are implying that people who dislike it in these boards all follow the same reasons for hating the game, when it would seem that the people who have answered in this thread have shown various reasons. People don't dislike NWN just because someone else does; at least, that is not the picture I get.

I've been pretty careful to phrase what I say as most people or several of them, rather than labeling all of you.

There are a few people who have posted actual gripes, such as Jedi earlier on this page. But you can quite plainly see that immedately after he reverted to nothing more than the incessant immaturity that seems so prevalent here.

Additionally, some of the people who have posted on this thread have not insulted you in any way when explaining their motives. Either you're playing dense, or you can't help being so yourself.

Emphasis on that some, eh?

Don't you find it the least bit telling that I didn't have to go past page one in those other NWN threads to find insults directed at those who enjoy the game?

Yes, some people around here seem to have valid points. But they are either far less vocal or just a huge minority.

I'm inclined to believe that every single person who comes here with the same question (or similar ones) as a hight tendency to spots insults being thrown at them, but tend to be impervious to actual answers.

Actually there were insults flying around long before I joined the thread. The that really annoyed me was directed at the mod community, where the post author said they were all rank amateurs wasting their time spinning their tires in Atari's fetid mud.

While that isn't an exact quote, the language of his post was the same.

I'm not a builder, though I did try... but I think many of the people who DO build have immense talent and I would happily buy any game they produced if they ever did create their own games.

Not to mention that several people have already been hired by Bioware because of the quality of their modules, and one has even declined an offer from them simply because he already has a great job. Yet someone around here gets to talk shit about them because he doesn't like Bioware? Without even having given a reason for disliking the game or the company?

 

[Jed]

I'm a drama queen? I'm not the people who take it as a personal insult whenever someone says NWN is a good game!

No, you do when someone says NWN is a bad game.

People on these boards seem to have no other reason to hate NWN than herd mentality, and are unable to back up their dislike for the game with anything but personal insults directed at everyone who does like the game.

I love this, you're one of the hundreds of thousands of gamers who think NWN is the BEST GAEM EVAR, N00BS!, yet when a handful of people gather on a forum around their common dislike of NWN, it's us that have the "herd mentality." Priceless.

 

[Sarvis]

No, you do when someone says NWN is a bad game.

No, I do when someone says the game "attracts mostly idiots." Why? Because that pretty much is a personal insult.

I love this, you're one of the hundreds of thousands of gamers who think NWN is the BEST GAEM EVAR, N00BS!, yet when a handful of people gather on a forum around their common dislike of NWN, it's us that have the "herd mentality." Priceless.

I never said it was the best game ever. Care to lie some more?





That's 1.

 

[Sarkile]

Why is that a personal insult? Are you most of NWN's fanbase?

 

[Sarvis]

Why is that a personal insult? Are you most of NWN's fanbase?

I'm part of it, and saying most of the people who are fans are idiots pretty much includes all the fans of the game. Therefore they are calling me an idiot.

Granted, it's not as personal an insult as Sheriff's... but it's still pretty damn asinine.

 

[Jed]

No, I do when someone says the game "attracts mostly idiots." Why? Because that pretty much is a personal insult.

Note that I did say "mostly." But if you feel implicated, who am I to argue?

I never said it was the best game ever. Care to lie some more?

I do engage in the occasional hyperbole for comic effect. But obviously you take yourself very seriously, so I'll try to be sensitive. However, since no reason anyone cites here as to why we personally think NWN sucks shit is valid as far as your responses would seem to indicate, the logical conclusion is that you think NWN is unassailable as a game. Thus, BEST GAEM EVEAR NOOBOER!!!11 MATURIETY!!11 & LIESZ!!11

That's 1.

How many more do I get?

 

[Sarvis]

I do engage in the occasional hyperbole for comic effect. But obviously you take yourself very seriously, so I'll try to be sensitive. However, since no reason anyone cites here as to why we personally think NWN sucks shit is valid as far as your responses would seem to indicate, the logical conclusion is that you think NWN is unassailable as a game. Thus, BEST GAEM EVEAR NOOBOER!!!11 MATURIETY!!11 & LIESZ!!11

Where did I ever question anyone's reasons when they were given? Except for Sheriff's, which amounted to nothing more than the game not being what he had imagined it to be, that is.

How many more do I get?

One for each reply to a topic you are "sick of."

I did say it would be interesting to see how many of you keep posting in this thread despite being sick of the topic. A couple posts ago... heh.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Don't you find it the least bit telling that I didn't have to go past page one in those other NWN threads to find insults directed at those who enjoy the game?

I find its a character flaw that likely won't disappear. I can't say I appreciate it, and at times I spoke out against it as well, even if I made the same mistake occasionally. Better to just sidestep it and focus on the main task.

Yes, some people around here seem to have valid points. But they are either far less vocal or just a huge minority.

If those threads Jedi posted were any indication, people have debated this on and on. It's likely the most flogged game on the forums.

 

[Sheriff05]

Where did I ever question anyone's reasons when they were given? Except for Sheriff's, which amounted to nothing more than the game not being what he had imagined it to be, that is.

"cough"....Imagined????
yeah that's it... I imagined the whole fucking thing..whew!..thanks for clearing that up for me. You don't really seem to be paying to attention, just looking for it.

 

[baelstren]

Some folks around here think that NWN is a deeply flawed game, from design to implementation. No amount of spin, whining, flaming, fanboy groupthink, or sales stats will change this opinion, save a fundamental redesign of NWN. Said persons also tend to resent the shift of publisher interest toward the lowest common demoninator in cRPGs (i.e. RTS, multiplay, and phat l00t).

I'm sorry that this isn't Fanboi Central, and that we aren't having a circle-jerk about how great the latest cookie-cutter module is or what the best munchkin prestige class build would be. If you want that kind of discussion, there are tons of forums to suit your needs. You just came to the wrong place to snipe at folks for not getting hot and bothered about a bad game and the "community" that humps it.

 

[Jedi359]

You have essentially come in, acted like a flamebaiter in order to get people to insult you, and then get offended by it. I've listed my reasons why I dislike the game. I personally am sick of listening to you bitch.

He's a troll, guys. Let's just ignore him.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

You aren't forced to take a henchmen along.

If you're a class that doesn't have trap skills, you pretty much have to take a henchman with trap skills along in the first act. If you don't, you'll have the fun of openning a trapped chest and having it go BOOM in your face for lots and lots of damage resulting in death. There's a few floor traps that do a bang up job on players as well. Eventually fightery classes will be able to tank on through them, though.

That's another problem with NWN, it wasn't designed the way a single character CRPG needs to be designed. A single character CRPG needs lots of ways for character types to do things their own way. Instead, most every location is a dungeon filled with traps and monsters. That's fine for a party based game where you have a thief, fighter, cleric and mage running about, but it doesn't work for a single character CRPG.