Company News More Witcher Gossip - Everyone blames everyone else

[Shannow]

“After having a payment being broken by CD Projekt - a big payment that we were supposed to receive - and after having committed to the project but not being covered financially on it for three months, I hold no choice but to put the team on hold,” said Widescreen boss Olivier Masclef in a phone interview this afternoon.

I don't see any "we provided the milestones on time."

Maybe this will help:

"We paid for all the milestones on time, just after they had been accepted. Of course, it was later than planned, because the milestones were presented for acceptance with delays and they were inconsistent with the specification."

I was aware of that. But my quote was from WSG and yours is from the CDP. So if WSG don't even refute the claims that they were late in providing the milestones I don't see why anybody should "take their side".

EDIT:

I find it highly amusing that so many are willing to believe CDP on their pretty blue eyes. Good for them, tho', if CDP manages to make it so that everyone believes it's all WSG's fault they'll have less trouble finding the investors they so desperately need. If true word gets out about how much shit they're in, then the shit'll just get deeper.

All WSG have to do is claim that they provided good quality milestones on time. I haven't seen such a statement, yet, and it's getting kinda late...
Of course that doesn't mean that CDP is financially healthy.

 

[MetalCraze]

I find it highly amusing that so many are willing to believe CDP on their pretty blue eyes.

You are posting this on ESF #2 where the only argument in defence of CDP is "lol you are just butthurt lololol", what did you expect?

 

[dragonfk]

For once skyway try to be strictly unbiased. I didnt see any fanatic fanbase raging against WSG and praising CDP to heavens.

 

[Brother None]

All WSG have to do is claim that they provided good quality milestones on time.

I assume they have not provided good quality milestones on time.

And? Does that mean they're the only guilty party here? Does it preclude any mismanagement from CDP being a factor? Or monetary problems being a factor in the decision to pull funding to WSG?

 

[DarkUnderlord]

If you believe either company straight-out you're a fool. They both have too many reasons to lie.

Brother None is taking the Neutral path. His armour shall have extra resistances.

 

[Spectacle]

CDP were the first to bring up milestones, in reply to WSG's press release, so there's nothing particularly weird about WSG not talking about milestones in the first place. Let's wait and see what their next reply is, there should be some quality drama in this.

I try to follow the neutral path for now, but I suspect that this is the kind of conflict where we will all have to pick a side sooner or later, just like the fight between the order and the nonhumans.

 

[Shannow]

All WSG have to do is claim that they provided good quality milestones on time.

I assume they have not provided good quality milestones on time.

And? Does that mean they're the only guilty party here? Does it preclude any mismanagement from CDP being a factor? Or monetary problems being a factor in the decision to pull funding to WSG?

As I see it CDP outsourced their port to the cheapest "bidder". (Mistakes 1 and 2)
WSG started working on the project. Financial crisis "hit" CDP hard. (Mistake 3) WSG does not provide what was expected. CDP watches this a while and hopes for the best. (4) CDP's financial problems become so big that they have to cut losses. Considering WSG's tardiness they are one of the obvious choices. Depending on the contract that may have been legitimate. From a "moral" point of view it certainly was. They let WSG come out with a damning press release before themselves. (5)
Some of my assumptions might be wrong and I certainly don't have "the whole" picture but in general this probably comes close to the truth. So CDP certainly made mistakes but they also certainly were justified in not paying WSG anymore (even if they way they went about it was suboptimal). And to be honest I don't know what we are arguing about, BN

 

[Dandelion]

Awesome. This must be one of those "moral grey areas" that makes The Witcher so great. Which faction will you side with?

Of course, it was later than planned, because the milestones were presented for acceptance with delays and they were inconsistent with the specification. We put an enormous effort to make sure the production goes the right way, and still the plans were becoming invalid, and there were new delays? After a few such incidents, we sent a large team over to Lyon. The group consisted not only of people involved in the project, but also of technology managers from RED and Metropolis. They spent one whole week to examine thoroughly the whole project and its technology. As a result, we found out that WSG's promises had no grounds in reality and that the game's premiere date and quality cannot be guaranteed. So, after a long discussion, we decided to suspend the cooperation with WSG, because we understood there is too much risk in it. And actually we haven't paid for the last milestone, but only because it wasn't complete and we have already started the termination of the contract.

As I see it CDP outsourced their port to the cheapest "bidder". (Mistakes 1 and 2)
WSG started working on the project. Financial crisis "hit" CDP hard. (Mistake 3) WSG does not provide what was expected. CDP watches this a while and hopes for the best. (4) CDP's financial problems become so big that they have to cut losses. Considering WSG's tardiness they are one of the obvious choices. Depending on the contract that may have been legitimate. From a "moral" point of view it certainly was. They let WSG come out with a damning press release before themselves.

This.

Does it matter? In the next chapter we will still get another piece of shit game from CDP no matter the choice.

Your ignorance in evaluating the quality of a videogame is awesome.

 

[aries202]

I'm a bit inclined to take sides with CDP (don't hit me, please ). However, I can certainly see some of the mistakes they have made in the past. In the interview with Kicinski, isn't he admitting that they bascially wanted do a whole new game for the Xbox 360, not just a direct port of The Wicther, but a game called Rise of The White Wolf that has certain (new?) assets, a new graphics engine? and other such things. As I see it, very bad business decision - unless the Aurora engine can't be ported directly to Xbox 360?

Then, CDP started not 1, but 3 whole new projects at the same time (or nearly) Mistake # 2, as I see it. Figuring into this was chnging their FPS, THEY, from the ground up, this was .not very wise from a business point of view as it meant that valuable time went by when they could have been developing Witcher 2 or another game..

Oh, and for WSG comments, I would guess that they needed to make the statement they did to re-alliance them with Namco-Bandai games.

I have no reason to believe that Kicinski lies directly to our faces; he may be omitting certain part of the truths as he most assuredly need to do from a business perspective in order to keep a good relations-ship with Atari and other potential investors in CDP games. I have no reason to believe that WSG are lying either...

My guess is (and that it is guess only) that guys from CDP travelled to France and saw what WSG were working in relations to RoTWW; they've found it be utter shit e.g. not to the quality that CDP demands in their products. But then, you get what you pay for...also when you're paying a developer like WSG that ports your game very cheaply, maybe even to cheaply :

 

[Lemunde]

Console exclusive game. I'm not shedding any tears for it.

 

[RK47]

Exactly. It doesn't really matter at all to PC gamers, Widescreen can fuck up for all I care since they're just making console conversion which I have less than 1% chance of buying and those who didn't enjoy Witcher is probably sad because they get to see the 2nd Witcher earlier than it's supposed to be. Take that you pieces of shit.

 

[MetalCraze]

Yeah!

I mean CDP is known for truth:

http://www.ag.ru/files/videos/witcher/17411/flash#show

The dev says that if you'll release the prisoner he will tell his master where witchers' castle is and the master will attack it.
Except the game already begins with a siege meaning that there is no such moment in the game.
And long-term consequences never shown in the video, only words (and even that never happens in the game).

CDP is totally not known for bullshitting like Bethesda with their fake Oblivion's videos, not mentioning lying about WSG, take that you TW hating pieces of shit.

 

[yarpen]

Yeah!

I mean CDP is known for truth:

http://www.ag.ru/files/videos/witcher/17411/flash#show

The dev says that if you'll release the prisoner he will tell his master where witchers' castle is and the master will attack it.
Except the game already begins with a siege meaning that there is no such moment in the game.

You *do* know this is an old video and this part has been later removed from the game, right?

 

[Jim Cojones]

So later on CD-Projekt Red decided that they can't handle that level of consequences. OK, it was their first game and the ambitious plans surpassed them. Shame they didn't bother to inform players that all what they were talking about c&c had become invalid. Oh, wait, they couldn't do this because it was the most hyped game element, wasn't it?

 

[St. Toxic]

Poland is a dump, and anything to come out of there has to be garbage, else all logic would fail and we fall off the face of the earth and float helplessly into space.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Poland is a dump, and anything to come out of there has to be garbage, else all logic would fail and we fall off the face of the earth and float helplessly into space.

Those in glass houses.

 

[dragonfk]

Matt are you refering to what I think you are refering to? :shock:

 

[aboyd]

So they paid on time but they didn't? I don't get what he is saying.

It sounds to me like the contract was something like this: CDP pays out $500,000 each time one of the 5 milestones is hit, with milestones scheduled one per quarter. The Widescreen guys naively look at that contract and say, "Great, we get $500,000 per quarter, we can do this!" The CDP guys look at the same contract and say, "Great, we don't pay unless they hit a milestone, that should motivate them to be on time!"

The Widescreen guys miss a deadline, don't see money coming in, call CDP, and are like "Where's our money?!?" The CDP guys say, "Where's our milestone?!?"

And that's that.

 

[MetalCraze]

You *do* know this is an old video and this part has been later removed from the game, right?

Yes I know. It isn't about that exact scene however - it is more about an examples of how really noticeable consequences are and some of them even lead to more consequences - as per interview. And when in the final game all consequences end up being all about having different NPC models in the exactly same places doing the same things it isn't really nice.

(btw what happened to your CDP tag?)

 

[oldschool]

I don't like this "moral gray areas" business. Which one is light side please?

You are too simplistic.

This place isn't going to decline itself, you know. We have to work at it.

 

[Arcanoix]

You *do* know this is an old video and this part has been later removed from the game, right?

Yes I know. It isn't about that exact scene however - it is more about an examples of how really noticeable consequences are and some of them even lead to more consequences - as per interview. And when in the final game all consequences end up being all about having different NPC models in the exactly same places doing the same things it isn't really nice.

(btw what happened to your CDP tag?)

You are missing the point. So are the rest of you dumbasses. There won't be a console version of the game now, which is GOOD. Had a console-version come out, the sequel would've suffered, example : FEAR 2. But good on CDP I say. More PC-only plz, kthx.

Oh and inb4Volourn.

 

[SerratedBiz]

Isn't the Witcher 2 for PC AND consoles?

 

[Forest Dweller]

Yeah!

I mean CDP is known for truth:

http://www.ag.ru/files/videos/witcher/17411/flash#show

The dev says that if you'll release the prisoner he will tell his master where witchers' castle is and the master will attack it.
Except the game already begins with a siege meaning that there is no such moment in the game.

You *do* know this is an old video and this part has been later removed from the game, right?

Sorry, but that doesn't cut it. If you show me a scene that promises something that later doesn't end up in the game, I'm going to be pissed. I don't care how long the game is in development. We've already seen it with Oblivion and Mass Effect and now the Witcher and probably some other games too. Think about this for a moment: if players can't even trust actual gameplay videos anymore, what can they trust? Do you want gamers to take everything (literally everything) that you show to them pre-release with a large grain of salt? Because that's what will eventually happen if you and other developers keep this up. And good riddance.

 

[aboyd]

Think about this for a moment: if players can't even trust actual gameplay videos anymore, what can they trust? Do you want gamers to take everything (literally everything) that you show to them pre-release with a large grain of salt?

YES.

 

[Silellak]

Think about this for a moment: if players can't even trust actual gameplay videos anymore, what can they trust? Do you want gamers to take everything (literally everything) that you show to them pre-release with a large grain of salt?

YES.

Indeed. I figured we as gamers learned a long time ago not to trust what developers tell us or show us, and just trust what's in the final product.

It's a fact of life that time and money demands things will get cut from a game. Unfortunately, it's often the most ambitious features that go first. It sucks, but that's how the real world works.