Mini-games done right: Ever happened before?

[Brotherman Bill]

Well? A lot of gameslatelyhave tried to make up for what they lack in RPG elements with mini games. Those elements inevitably suck to the point where they are considered to be the games worst part. Are there any games where it haven't been so? Is it theoretically possible to include mini games in a non-retarded manner? Why are developers doing this to us?

 

[DraQ]

Wizardry 8? System Shock 2?

I have made a thread on this subject once and concluded that yes, it is possible.

 

[Sceptic]

Light Cycles in Tron 2.0.

Lockpicking in Anachronox.

Oh yeah definitely SS2.

Not sure I'd count the Wiz8 ones as mini-games. You just click and the rest is determined by character skill.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Light Cycles in Tron 2.0.

Oh yeah definitely SS2.

Yeah, these. Light cycles were actually gud fun, and the hacking in SS2 was a matter of two seconds most usually.

 

[JarlFrank]

Thief 3's lockpicking wasn't too bad.

 

[Jaedar]

Lockpicking in FO3 was pretty good.

Please don't shoot me.

 

[Donkey Balls]

Thief 3's lockpicking wasn't too bad.

Indeed. I wanted to mention it as well.

 

[DraQ]

Lockpicking in FO3 was pretty good.

Please don't shoot me.

*stab*

 

[Phelot]

Not a fan of mini games though I liked the gameboy thingy in SS2! That's the sort of minigames that would be awesome. Actual games in yo game so you can play while you play

COuldn't you play Doom 1 in Doom 3?

YOu could play Maniac Mansion in Day of the Tentacle.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Tactical combat minigame in most of cRPGs. Oh wait...

 

[saenz]

I enjoyed playing Blitzball in FFX more than playing the actual game.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Oh, yeah, I also liked swoop racing and pazaak in Kotor, although their main upside was that they were optional. Pazaak would probably get on my nerves if it was mandatory.

And dice in the Witcher. Dice were awesum.

 

[Sceptic]

Oh, yeah, I also liked swoop racing and pazaak in Kotor, although their main upside was that they were optional.

Swoop racing you had to play and win at least once to progress through Taris. I felt the minigame was very stupid, but it was nowhere near as stupid as the shooting section on the Ebon Hawk. That one was just bad.

 

[Jim Cojones]

Oh, yeah, I also liked swoop racing and pazaak in Kotor, although their main upside was that they were optional. Pazaak would probably get on my nerves if it was mandatory.

And dice in the Witcher. Dice were awesum.

Optional cards/dice games are always nice. At least if they can't become infinite sources of money.

 

[DraQ]

Not a fan of mini games though I liked the gameboy thingy in SS2! That's the sort of minigames that would be awesome. Actual games in yo game so you can play while you play

COuldn't you play Doom 1 in Doom 3?

YOu could play Maniac Mansion in Day of the Tentacle.

Oh, yeah, I also liked swoop racing and pazaak in Kotor, although their main upside was that they were optional. Pazaak would probably get on my nerves if it was mandatory.

And dice in the Witcher. Dice were awesum.

I wouldn't call them minigames, though, more like "games in games".

Word "minigame" should be reserved for mechanically different part of the game standing in for some particular activity, not an actual in-universe game.

 

[Shannow]

Lockpicking in FO3 was pretty good.

Please don't shoot me.

I thought the minigame itself was quite good, too. It just fucked up when being integrated into the character system. Higher lockpicking didn't make the minigame easier, as it should have been. It simply opened up more difficult locks. Which lead to the nonsensical progression of: your lockpicking skill gets better but the minigame becomes more difficult...
Not to mention the moronic "sweet spots".

 

[Jimmy McDunce]

no it wasnt

 

[yaster]

Hacking in Bioshock 2. Plenty of folks would go BAAW at me after saying that but really - it's good, minigame that is - and seriously, who of you actually played the damn game?

It's neddle sliding left and right, you can stop it with a button, the goal is to stop it at the right moment.

It's over quick - you have time limit. It doesn't have simple binary execution, no just win/lost&reload but win+/win/no-consequence/critical-failure with gives player space to perform better. It have difficulty progression, at the end of the game I was not capable of executing it without critical failure(there are upgrades(?) making it easier, I didn't use them). It require skillz. And it has place in gamespace and is directly connected with standard gameplay - when you are performing hacking monsters still attack you etc. It makes hacking harder during fight. Actually I was not able to multitask good enough to hack and fight at the same time, could only hack away from monsters or very fuckin' quick. Hmm, there is bayout? I didn't remember that.

There are also tools with darts allowing hacking at the distance and auto-hack. It's nice.

Of course it have its share of problems but not particularly big. When you hack shop terminal and manage to win+ you get bonus item. Sucks because it encourages hacking everything, not just things you very much need. it would be better with just bigger discount - turrets and security bots have something like that.


btw: sry for xbawks screenie, no KKK for me

 

[Jaedar]

Lockpicking in FO3 was pretty good.

Please don't shoot me.

I thought the minigame itself was quite good, too. It just fucked up when being integrated into the character system. Higher lockpicking didn't make the minigame easier, as it should have been. It simply opened up more difficult locks. Which lead to the nonsensical progression of: your lockpicking skill gets better but the minigame becomes more difficult...
Not to mention the moronic "sweet spots".

Actually, higher skill made the sweet spots bigger, or so I think. But yeah, the fact that skills of 25x was pretty bad.

 

[DraQ]

Lockpicking in FO3 was pretty good.

Please don't shoot me.

I thought the minigame itself was quite good, too. It just fucked up when being integrated into the character system. Higher lockpicking didn't make the minigame easier, as it should have been. It simply opened up more difficult locks. Which lead to the nonsensical progression of: your lockpicking skill gets better but the minigame becomes more difficult...
Not to mention the moronic "sweet spots".

On the other hand you had the opposite approach in oblivious and the effect was that sufficiently skilled player could completely override total lack of character's skill and pick locks of arbitrary difficulty with 100% success rate.

Which destroys the purpose of including a skill in the first place.

 

[Phelot]

OK, a more serious response:

I am against mini-games, unless it's a Wizard's and Warriors sort of lockpicking were it's not very interactive beyond telling the character to stop attempting.

Tasks should be based on a character's skills and success should be determined by a standard dice roll + skill level bonus. It's always nice to have critical failures and such.

I don't buy the whole "but players will just reload" so what? They would reload if it's a mini game too and even then, a developer shouldn't have to worry about the player reloading because they failed at lockpicking or whatever.

Mini games always feel like a distraction to me and they always feel gimmicky. There's always some little trick that you can do to allow you to blaze through them all so it becomes pointless.

 

[Sceptic]

Hacking in Bioshock 2.

It wasn't particularly good but it had one saving grace: it was very, very quick. Much better than BS1 that's for sure. The multiple outcomes was also a nice touch but made very little difference on the long run. A note to developers: if you absolutely HAVE to include a shitty minigame, at least make sure it can be done quickly like this one.

 

[Flux_Capacitor]

Might and Magic VII - Arcomage

 

[GarfunkeL]

Better to avoid mini-games completely.

 

[Sceptic]

Might and Magic VII - Arcomage

I can't believe I forgot this one. I used to boot the game just to play a couple of rounds of Arcomage.

Not a minigame by the definition of our esteemed Elite Furry but it was so much fun I am willing to bend and twist and distort his definition just to make it fit.