Master of Mana

[coldcrow]

Version 1.3 out.

Thing is balanced and polished, got proper documentation and the AI even knows how to handle naval invasions, so I read.
If anyone's interested in MP, send a message.

http://masterofmana.com/

 

[Turisas]

Cool, was just going to reinstall Civ 4. How does this compare to FfH2? Better, worse, not really comparable? Any notable modmods?

 

[coldcrow]

Well this started out as a modmod of FfH2. Compared to FfH2 it is WAY better though. The AI is quite good, there are way more variables to manage (equipment, spellresearch,new global ressources) and overall it is more balanced.

 

[Malakal]

Its a bit too similar to FFH for me. Also suffers from the "adding too much" syndrome that plagues mod mods.

But if they truly fixed the AI I must check it out...

 

[Turisas]

Also suffers from the "adding too much" syndrome that plagues mod mods.

Speaking of which, just stumbled upon Caveman 2 Cosmos and the tech tree alone is pretty awesome:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreads ... utput=html

I'd be surprised if you can even reach a time victory on anything but the smallest map sizes before the MAF errors choke your game to death. Dat feature list.

 

[Malakal]

Damn, thats one huge tech tree. While its true that I always considered ages in civ games to last too short but I am not sure if adding this much is better... After all techs should give something and be important itself. Spear fishing? Not very important I'd wager.

 

[Turisas]

Think it's largely based on Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn - it had some additional game speeds (slowest was 3000 turns iirc) and was mainly made with slower speeds in mind so the early techs, along with early buildings/units, do serve a purpose in that regard.

Anyway, it can't be all bad, it has killer moose:

 

[oscar]

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AsdBtytHP7lodDl2a2tIYkVQSjBIRjRSb29YLW9NZ2c&output=html

Lawn sports?
Bicycles?
Legalized Gambling?

 

[DakaSha]

finally jesus. ive been waiting for this forever.
And so far this mid has some of the best ai i have seen in any 4x to be honest

 

[DakaSha]

Cool, was just going to reinstall Civ 4. How does this compare to FfH2? Better, worse, not really comparable? Any notable modmods?

Better in pretty much every way imo (it is based off of it though.. it itself started as a mod mod)

 

[Turisas]

Better in pretty much every way imo (it is based off of it though.. it itself started as a mod mod)

Yeah, didn't even realize this at first, the civfanatics thread has no proper info on the OP and the official site seems like WIP as well. Got the quick start manual someone made at least, think I'll give that a read before even trying it - does look awesometastic at first glance tho.

 

[Lightknight]

got proper documentation

Manual is still in the works.

Liar.

 

[DakaSha]

there is in game documentation.. shitloads of it. If you cant pick up a complex strategy game and play it from the get go with your eyes closed what are you doing here anyways



Anyways somebody said it looked like one of those mods that just seems to add everything. I understand and if i were to look at it for the first time id think the same but seriously its all done with overall design in mind. Everything actually has a strategic use.
Ive been playing it and loving the shit out of it btw

 

[DakaSha]

Once i can be fairly sure i can finish a game without crashing (it already has but being a programmer has other benefits besides getting hawt chicks all the time) i will prob start my first lets play

Havent had this much fun with a game for along time. Chances are some stupid shit will happen that destroys that but ill give it the benefit of the doubt

 

[Eyeball]

Quite impressive update to the mod. I like how the previously useless stone resource is now extremely useful as it can be used to "rush" buildings with.

Another thing that is really good about the game is that the AI now uses equipment very effectively. I was especially impressed with the way a civ starting in a bunch of woodland started giving its soldiers +woodland defense gear. This makes it far more challenging and is a good thing.

On the other hand, something that makes the mod nigh-on unplayable for me is that the AI now uses equipment very effectively. This forces you to do the same or lose every single fight. While a cool concept, adding equipment to every single fucking axeman is tedious beyond comprehension, especially considering Civ4's shittacular garbage dogshit faggotass engine seriously messes with my ability to enjoy being a warmongering orc warlord. I also suspect that it cheats quite massively in gaining enough iron or leather to deck out all its dudes that well when my resource income is just about enough to give an axeman a sword every ten turns or so.

Incidentally, I'm kind of a noob at the war aspect of Civ games, being a born turtler - in this mod, how do I use siege weapons effectively? I brought something like 10 catapults to smash the enemy's pissant town but no matter how many catapults I comitted I couldn't seem to drop city defenses below +21% and my massive catapult army only took off bloody 9% of each stationed soldier's health. What the hell am I missing here? I'm almost sure siege weapons were better than this in vanilla, or at least in Civ3.

 

[DakaSha]

snip

What difficulty are you playing on? I play on noble and the AI gives me the best fight ive seen in a 4x yet. As far as i know it doesnt cheat at this level (But this is a guess.. im pretty sure that civ4 ai cheats in some ways no matter what the difficulty)
Civ4's interface is fucking retarded and equipping all the units would piss me off a LOT but due to recourse constraints its never to bad.

I have been having crashes every game though so i havent got past mid game yet. However it seems like its prob just me so im re installing everything and going to try different options.

 

[Eyeball]

Playing on Noble as well and the AI seems to be decent at kicking me when I'm down. I just fortified my border cities heavily expecting a titanic assault on them, but the AI simply took one look at my 15 axemen, walked right past the city and beelined for my completely undefended capital city. Fucking Maginot line!

But seriously, how do you take cities without using human wave tactics in this mod? Playing the Amurite mage guys, I pretty much just resorted to spamming fireballs at the garrison with 6+ mages until everything was dead but how do I even manage to do it without spells?

 

[DakaSha]

As far as i can tell you have five options:

1. Human waves (They work at least)
2. Bombard/Spell the fuck out of cities
3. Just lay siege and try to get the ai to counterattack you (be careful though because when it does this its prob gonna kick your ass )

4. Combination of above 3

5. Ive had the most luck with fucking up the AI or intimidating them then demanding their cities for peace. It works. May actually be a bit to easy in fact.

 

[Malakal]

I must admit I stopped playing the previous version since on Emperor diffuculty I usualy play all games looked the same - some AI would declare war on me after some time and since then I would be permanently at war with my neighbors for eternity (peaced with one another declares).

I dont mind AI fighting and invading but not when its so horribly inefficient at that. Fighting a stalemate for hundreds of turns gets boring fast (since I cant spare troops to invade). Also games were so predistable...

 

[coldcrow]

Equipment and Promotions are still unbalanced and somehwat broken.

Not sure about the AI cheating in global ressources. The ressource producing improvemnts are often those you do not want to build and I see the AI having lots of them.

What I also do not like is the ubiquity of some early game tactics.
The tiger summon would be the biggest offender there.

Adding a tiger and a skeleton to a stack increases combat strength about 60%, +20% and 2*(-20%). Add equipment and counter-promotions to that and you get unbeatable stacks early on.

 

[Turisas]

Mkay, finally have time to start a proper game (anything less than the slowest speed on largest map size is for faggots). Been ages since I played FfH - what's the most popamole easymode civ to start with?

 

[DakaSha]

Mkay, finally have time to start a proper game (anything less than the slowest speed on largest map size is for faggots). Been ages since I played FfH - what's the most popamole easymode civ to start with?

Game is prob gonna crash if you play it with a bunch of settings maxed out. I wouldnt go over 11 players and large map size tbh. Civ4's mod engine is retarded in that it allows for creating mods that it cant handle without really giving even the devs anything to work with. I was getting CTD's ever single fucking game until i went from 15 to 11 payers (although this is probb due to the mod being buggy)

Anyways you should prob just try Bannor

Also marathon game speed is gonna be boring is fuck prob. The mid game can be pretty drawn out. Personally after trying different settings i play on faggy ass quick speed. It isnt like civ4 where that means u get brand new techs before even reaching an enemy. You will be keeping the same tier units for a looooong time in this. Even on quick i could go around the map multiple times and still have the same unit tier (which is a good thing imo)

Somebody above stated they quit because the enemy would always declare war every time and stay at war for eternity. Shits changed. They are much more realistic (for lack of better word) when it comes to war now

 

[Turisas]

Yeah I've played big mods like Rise of Mankind before so I'm used to the MAF errors and what not. I don't really mind the boredom, but guess I could put it up a notch just this once.
Random civ put me as Clan of Embers, and despite the nice start (started right next to a unique map improvement, some mountain with +production) I'm already falling behind hard in the scores and I'll probably get raped soon. Stupid orcs.

 

[DakaSha]

They are exceptionally strong early game. Chop forests to build of an army of orc rape. Focus on military techs (including civics) and try to establish yourself as a hardcore motherfucker.

what difficulty are you playing on? Also its prob more important to pay attention to the power ratios then to score. Score makes u lose in a couple hundred turns but the power ratio makes u lose early

 

[Eyeball]

Yeah I've played big mods like Rise of Mankind before so I'm used to the MAF errors and what not. I don't really mind the boredom, but guess I could put it up a notch just this once.
Random civ put me as Clan of Embers, and despite the nice start (started right next to a unique map improvement, some mountain with +production) I'm already falling behind hard in the scores and I'll probably get raped soon. Stupid orcs.

I love the Clan of Embers. Get tech to build axemen, build warrens, tadaa, two axemen for the price of one. Get plenty of cities and spam your crappy troops at the enemy, remembering to deck them out with weapons, naturally.

"YOOO NOT SO TUFF!"