Let's Play VtM: Wild Nights - Chapter 10

[Kz3r0]

See? Am I right or am I right? But gloating later.

Time for a little recap:

1. Erika, our most promising prospect. She has changed her estimation of us quite drastically. No longer we are a Ventrue prick out to get Du marchais and his barony. No sirree, we are a proper Camarilla loyalist now, with principle and everything. The excution of Karthik in the tunnel, and now the enticement of Tremere faction into this war. Plus our action plan involving boom and thunder is not too bad. Frankly, our moving in with Sammy is the biggest disappointment but that is necessary for enticing Tremere into the war.

Precaution: sacrifice her muscles wont sit well with her. This is one important factor in considering which plan to choose. Vice versa with boom plan. It sit well with her so consider that before changing into something non-boom.

Alienating her would be dumb.

2. Samanthar Eames: She, right now, is considering grabbing a big share of credit for this coming operation, in order to set up groundwork to topple the Prince later. She commit Tremere's strength into the war, and the sting operation with us, who now living under her protection therefore HER man, so when the smoke clear she will reap big big fruits. We must consider our plan carefully, so that she may get credit but not too much that she can threaten Prince. Topple Kirkberg now could lead to a big war of succession among barons and dont sit well with erika.

We should bother about reward and stature, not credit per-sé.

3. Prince: Slightly concerned because his justification of war, Terrance's Sabbat kidnapping, now has a chance to be foiled.

The prince shouldn't be of our concern, he already fucked up big time, we have nothing to gain by being loyal to him, just avoid open enmity if possible, but not at the cost of our allies.

4. Du Marchais: Desperate. He will need something big to get back into Prince's good grace.

Let him dig his own grave, in case he would ask for our help give him an hand with the shovel.

5. Castle Howard: The 1st time we heard of it is from Jamieson, who just talked with Sammy. The 2nd time is from Sammy herself. And Erika dont know about any north expedition of Terrance in years. It could be that the old vamp successfully sneak out under her eyes. But it could be that Sammy prepared something there and need somebody ACCIDENTALLY discover it, so she spread it with an Yankee visitor first then with an ambitious upstart later. Consider ths point very carefully before we think about venturing near there.

Nonetheless seems something worth to investigate.

6. The war is changing shift into hotter periods. It's now more necessary than ever to keep Humphrey's updated. We lost our chance last night into doing something pointless like calling Oscar, instead of calling Humphrey. So we really need to either call him or visit him in person to reestablish dominance, da? And the kine may have experts in both surveillance and boom matter.

Good suggestion.

 

[Esquilax]

I doubt it - he's the sort who'll get the job done. Albeit with a shitload of collateral damage, unneccesary extravagance, and stealing all the glory from the stalwart, stoic Brits who meticulously planned, supplied and made the mission possible. A true yank That said, we'd be pissing off the sheriff, which is why I'll say we should go with D

Yeah, but if you take the modified version of B, you won't be pissing the Sheriff off, because none of her people will have to die. If anything, she'll probably respect us more for taking one for the team. When the fuck do Ventrue ever get shot to achieve a goal? She will respect Anthony's dedication to the plan - we could have put her grunts on the line if we wanted, but we instead put ourselves at personal risk to get shit done.

Eames is our ally. If she takes the credit? So be it. We're on good terms with her and the power-behind-the-power always lives longer than the figurehead as long as they don't set their sights too high. Besides, she's a real classy babe.

No way, fuck her. She's not classy, she's patronizing (calling the fucking Sheriff "dear" like she's a goddamn child) and will only keep us around so long as she can milk us for her ends. I made a mistake in voting to accept the invitation. God, I will be so pissed if she tries to put a blood-bond on us somehow. Then again, without accepting her invite, I doubt that she would have agreed to put pressure on the Sabbat with an assault of her own. So I guess it's not all that bad. But still, it was a move made out of desperation and it wasn't strategic. But this one is.

The combined A and D option is a perfect example of how more isn't necessarily better. People, the Sabbat will be suspicious. So a Camarilla squad leads a retreating shovelhead to discover the Caecilian cave and by some crazy coincidence, right at the same time, it just so happens that Wilkinson overheard how we wanted to kill du Marchais using some bizarre worms we found in a sewer? Really guys, nothing suspicious at all! It's information overkill.

D on its own is still tips our hand far too much. As Erebus mentioned, it makes the existence of the trap way too obvious. However, with the modified B option, no suspicion will be drawn. Wilkinson will get back to her superiors, informing them that the Patrician has been killed by someone he thought was his friend, a Malkavian named Jamieson. As Sommers stood up to shake the man's hand, Jamieson drew a sawed-off shotgun and fired. She'll mention that he shot her as well and that he kept ranting about how he wanted to kill every Camarilla fuck he could find.

Dubrik will be positively thrilled to find the man who killed his rival, Anthony Sommers. He will try to establish contact with Jamieson right away. To Dubrik, killing Sommers is worth killing 10 Camarilla enforcers - he's been trying to get us since even before the first update, so having his desire for revenge suddenly sated by this mysterious stranger will make him vulnerable. This version of B is way better than Jamieson killing three random Camarilla grunts who nobody, except maybe our most important ally, cares about. The good Bishop will get into contact with Jamieson, arrange a meeting between the London Sabbat and our boy Donny, then he'll work his persuasive magic on them. He's done it countless times before. It's perfect.

Guys, we've taken the EXTREME option last choice - don't go for the half-measure now. I've got an alternative that allows us to maintain good relations (or even better relations) with the Sheriff, while at the same time leaving the Sabbat none the wiser to what we've got up our sleeve.

The other options are vague and they don't offer a clear, step-by-step method for executing this con. With D, we get some Sabbat sucker to play patsy and hope that his discovery makes it to the Sabbat higher-ups (that is, of course, if he isn't the ambitious type and he doesn't get eaten). And even if it does get to the higher-ups, we have to hope that they don't get suspicious, which they almost certainly will because we made it glaringly obvious by leading them to the mother lode. It's quite inelegant.

With A, there's the same problem. We basically have the problem of giving too much, too soon, and arousing suspicion that way. With my suggestion, we call Wilkinson here only as muscle (completely plausible, we're in the middle of a war), but instead of doing anything, we draw attention away from ourselves by being a bystander. We're simply there to get shot and lead her in the direction we want - less is more in this situation.

We need to see this shit through and stay the course right now. To make anyone open to a con, you need to exploit their weaknesses. Angelus' is the Caecilian, but Dubrik's is us. If we play it this way, we'll have them wrapped around our finger. With the other options, they are bad cons because we are inelegantly shoving our enemies to where we want them to go - with the modified B option, we give them a gentle touch and they lead themselves to their own doom. Those other options are clumsy and direct, while this one is subtle.

 

[laclongquan]

Esquilax's modified B sound very good. The only obstacle to B is that it need some Camarilla corpse which piss Erika off. With us as the main casualty, Wilkinson wound, it's nearly believable.

A side note: and I approve of the idea having Sommers playing an important role like that. It's dangerous as hell and very EXTREME SHEPARD but not too risky, since I trust Jamieson pretty much implicitly.

Now if only we could convince Erika of the righteousness of sacrificing Du Marchais along with us it would be superb. I mean, just one mid-level vamp got killed is not enough for a bloodhunt on US emissary. A baron, now, a baron's death would be more believable.

And Kz3r0, the main point about Prince is that he's the current reigning Prince, which mean he got Erika's automatic support and loyalty. We pay lip service to his and dont backstab him with Erika knowledge is to gain points in Erika's book, da? From start to finish I never advocate staying in his favours as a viable strategy. Erika play an important role in our long term strategy, maybe even more important than Sammy or other barons.

The trap: we need one, either very disposable or very trusted, expert to set explosive on the cliff. The damn problem is that Erika dont seem to want to pay one, and use kine expert risk pissing off Humphrey. I am thinking... I am thinking...

How about that Kine pretty criminal selling weapons, wahtziname, Chazza. He may have knowledge of explosive setting, and we could dominate him. If he die on the course of working for us, no great loss.

 

[haptsonir]

This LP kicks grotsnik.


Yes! B, with Jamieson shooting us instead of Schillers men.

In terms of details, don't we need to make it look like we've become ash in the aftermath?

 

[Storyfag]

Now if only we could convince Erika of the righteousness of sacrificing Du Marchais along with us it would be superb.

This

In other words I'm flopping to B.

But that won't work without the Prince's approval, I'm afraid. I mean, if we carry out a plan that sacrifices a Baron for a Bishop (or whatever the Sculptor's rank may be), we'll be skinned alive. That is, if we show that we're insolent enough to do so without express permision. This particular Baron, however, just fell out of favor for lying about Rannigan, so the Prince *might* be sympathetic to our plan. He'll get rid of a failure whose incompetence made him begin the war and deal the enemy a massive blow. Two birds with one stone, eh?

Now, maybe, just maybe, we should arrange the staged gunfight a bit differently. Let's Discuss! the Caecilian's destruction with Du Marchais, as any loyal subordinate would with his Baron. And let's do so in front of Wilkinson and Jamieson. At this point, once Amanda is well fed with info on the beast's capabilities but *not* on its location, Donnie will "kill" us, kill Du Marchais and wound her. He'll also proclaim that he won't allow stupid Ventrue fucks to waste such an opportunity and that he'd surely be welcomed by the Sabbat for bringing such a gift to them.

The rest goes as planned: Dubrik contacts Donnie to learn the beast's location. His motives are even stronger, as Wilkinson would inform him of the beast's capabilities.

 

[laclongquan]

The point of killing outright Du Marchais is considerable.

Now, I want you guys to consider a scenario: Dont let Du Marchais into the plan. As far as he know Donnie kill us, wound Wilkinson, and wound him as well.

With us death, it mean all the ghouls in Whitehall lose their master. There's a void of power in Whitehall. Whichever vamp get in first to sink their fangs into those civil servants will control Whitehall.

Even with wounds, how fast do you think Du Marchais will get to Whitehall?

And can we get there first to ambush him, out of sight, no witness?

 

[Esquilax]

In other words I'm flopping to B.

But that won't work without the Prince's approval, I'm afraid. I mean, if we carry out a plan that sacrifices a Baron for a Bishop (or whatever the Sculptor's rank may be), we'll be skinned alive. That is, if we show that we're insolent enough to do so without express permision. This particular Baron, however, just fell out of favor for lying about Rannigan, so the Prince *might* be sympathetic to our plan. He'll get rid of a failure whose incompetence made him begin the war and deal the enemy a massive blow. Two birds with one stone, eh?

Now, maybe, just maybe, we should arrange the staged gunfight a bit differently. Let's Discuss! the Caecilian's destruction with Du Marchais, as any loyal subordinate would with his Baron. And let's do so in front of Wilkinson and Jamieson. At this point, once Amanda is well fed with info on the beast's capabilities but *not* on its location, Donnie will "kill" us, kill Du Marchais and wound her. He'll also proclaim that he won't allow stupid Ventrue fucks to waste such an opportunity and that he'd surely be welcomed by the Sabbat for bringing such a gift to them.

The rest goes as planned: Dubrik contacts Donnie to learn the beast's location. His motives are even stronger, as Wilkinson would inform him of the beast's capabilities.

That sounds diabolical, I love it. However... now I'm going to urge you to rein in your ambitions for a second because I think you might be getting a little greedy. You've seen me argue passionately for pulling off a daring, theatrical plan like this, so it might come as a bit of a surprise that I am now going to urge a little bit of restraint.

I don't like the idea of bringing up the Caecilian before we've even had a meeting with the Sabbat. I want them to arrange a meeting with Jamieson because he is a bad motherfucker - the fact that he can lead them to a powerful monstrosity like the Caecilian is best left for later. It feels like it has the problem inherent in the other options of giving up too much, too soon. Personally, I would hit the Sabbat with the info once we actually meet.

Also, I feel that the idea has to come indirectly (i.e. not from us). Remember, we have to gently lead them, not push them. Bro, we don't need to give him more info. I mean, what we've got is more than enough to ensure that he will establish contact with Jaimeson. As far as he knows, Donnie just killed a noteworthy Ventrue (who Dubrik himself has tried to kill before and despises with a passion) with some of the Camarilla's best Kine contacts and his top enforcer. That's a hell of a resume - if I were Dubrik, I'd want to arrange a meeting too.

I don't think we even need to do this to du Marchais. Hey, I want to take this motherfucker out just as bad as you and everybody else here does, don't get me wrong, but this is way too EXTREME. Even if the Prince is starting to think he's an incompetent prick, we can't just kill him. Prick or not, killing a Baron is a huge sign of disrespect towards the Prince and he won't take it lightly. Just because he doesn't like the guy doesn't mean you can touch him. Instead, we need to come out on our own merits against this rival of ours. His star is falling, and after we pull this off, ours will be rising. Once it's exposed that he started a war under false pretenses, our own efforts in ending that very same war before things started getting ugly will make us look all the more impressive.

I think we need to stay our hand here, and let du Marchais get his a little later. Let him dig his own grave for now.

If we need to make the blood hunt look more believable, perhaps we can have Schiller report that Edgar has also been "killed", at which point he'll join us in performing surveillance

EDIT: Oh yeah, how would we reach du Marchais to begin with? We don't have his phone number, and even then I doubt the guy has a phone to begin with.

 

[laclongquan]

Eddie also get killed is more believable and easier to maneuver than other scenario.

And with Eddie, ONE our security will be more certain, TWO we have more muscles in case of event.

The point remain: with both Sommers and Eddie out of picture, how fast Du Marchais will get to Whitehall? Keep in mind that with the war getting hotter, control of politicians and media become higher and higher importance. And Du Marchais is desperate to get back into Prince's good graces. Keep Whitehall will go a long way toward that goal.

 

[Esquilax]

This LP kicks grotsnik.


Yes! B, with Jamieson shooting us instead of Schillers men.

In terms of details, don't we need to make it look like we've become ash in the aftermath?

I've thought about that already, here is where the misdirection and sleight-of-hand aspect of the con comes in. After we've been shot and Jamieson has "escaped", Edgar will turn to Wilkinson and tell her to go and immediately tell the Sheriff that we've been killed while he goes off and chases after Jamieson. We need to be very particular about the wording here - Edgar must tell her that we are dead so that she accepts it without thinking too hard.

Then, when she calls the Sheriff (which she will because she needs to look like the good Cammie subordinate), Erika will tell her that she'll look into it immediately. Shortly after, a blood hunt will be issued for the murders of Anthony Sommers and Edgar Fellowes. We plant a suggestion in her mind, then after the blood hunt is issued, Wilkinson will simply assume that we're dead, because what could possibly be the alternative, right? Of course, she will tell Dubrik the same thing. We don't try to look like we've become ash because we simply don't have to. This event will occur so quickly that she won't be able to process it - after we've been shot, she's going to be wounded and staring down the business end of Donny's shotgun. At that point, I doubt that she'll be thinking "boy, sure is odd that I don't see Patrician's ashes over there!"

When the blood hunt is called for Edgar's murder in addition to our own, it will simply be assumed that he must have been killed by Jamieson while pursuing him.* It's all bullshit smoke and mirrors at play here.

For reference, look at the end of the movie The Sting. BRObert Redford and Paul Newman pull off the exact same thing.

* Note for the future: Oscar still isn't talking to us. We can parlay our "death" into re-establishing relations with him. After we're done with this scheme, let's let Edgar give Oscar a call to tell him that we're both alive. He'll probably be so happy his friend is okay that he'll continue working for us again.

 

[grotsnik]

Faking your own death *is* ingenious. When you say you want the Prince to declare a blood hunt, are we thinking that everyone outside the immediate conspiracy, including the Prince, should think that you're dead?

 

[Storyfag]

Ahh, now *that* is the question. I think we should tell the Prince. Otherwise he'll get cross.

 

[laclongquan]

And to see whether he has any bomb expert, or suveillance expert he can spare for us. There's no need for us to pay for it all.

Then again, do we need him poking his nose in where it dont belong? And too many people in the secret already. Adding him and it might well fail... Choice and Consequence, huh?

 

[Storyfag]

Right you are. And we won't squeeze any more political clout out of this situation if we get him involved. Darn it to heck.

Fortunately the decision is not ours. Erika knows the Prince much better than we do, and *she* will be the one to inform him of our "death". We can tell her that we think the Prince shouldn't know, but we have no idea what will she finally tell him.

 

[Esquilax]

Before we get to that, boys, what are we going to do about actually setting the charges now that we've got a solid way of getting the info out without arousing suspicion? Several pages back, SCO mentioned the possibility of using animal carcasses. We get a bunch of our grunts to haul animal body parts down into the cave, then once we are there, we can throw body parts into the pit to distract the Caecilian while our bomb setter does his thing.

Edgar's friend has already been eaten by this fucking thing. We might have to face the possibility that we might be the ones taking the big risk here if it is an easy device to set. I say we do it if we have to.

 

[laclongquan]

Animal carcasses or just plain meat bags are easier to procure and prepare BUT quite hard to emplace them tracelessly and safely there. Worms will attack the carriers and if we are careless we could left traces behind, warn Sabbat of traps.

EDIT: never mind the traces. It just plain unsafe. We gotta do if we gotta do but it's unncessarily risky.

I suggest a demolition expert to emplace Erika-provided explosive onto the wall of the cliff. However this run the risk of worms killed him even if we try to protect, so it's best if we can get a disposable kine. If Humphrey could provide an expert to be used and discarded, superb. But if not, I am thinking of Dominating the Kine Chezza, one petty criminal weaponseller of our acquaintance and have him do it.

What do you think?

 

[Azael]

Joining Esquilax's cunning plan, with the modifications Storyfag suggested.

B

 

[Storyfag]

Ah, but I'm not sure whether I still support those changes I suggested Throwing too much info through Wilkinson might be suspicious, no matter how we arrange it.

Now, about feeding the Caecillian with napalm canisters: the canisters can be small enough to fid in a chicken. Note, however, that Karthik fed it corpses! So we shouldn't have too much problems with bringing some large chunks of meat down there.

 

[laclongquan]

It will depend on Erika if she can provide enough and approriate stuffs for the job:

napalm cannisters, small sized: Destroy Caecillian, sure, but Sabbats on the ledge and in the tunnel? Hard. It's fire weapons, and it's in the bottom of the pit, remember?

explosive on the wall of that cliff, military grade: destroy all that stand in the chamber, and under the pit. Then we send force in to mop up the remnants. But this require somebody who is familiar with military grade explosive. Sommers was rear echelon motherfucker, so it's quite low chance that he's familiar with it. So we will need to use one another expert, then keep him somewhere safe till later (to prevent blabbing) or dispose immediately.

 

[Esquilax]

Throwing too much info through Wilkinson might be suspicious, no matter how we arrange it.

This was the part that I was most opposed to. Notice how with the original version, at no point do they get any real info from us directly. At all times, it's the Sabbat who are the ones doing the uncovering and investigating, so it feels very real to them. At first, Dubrik wants to arrange a meeting with Jamieson because the man just ended up killing a long-time rival and his enforcer. At that point, the blood hunt will be called, so the Bishop's thought process will be "I better find this guy before the Camarilla do."

And he will do that because he is a competent spymaster, but more importantly, because we've gotten him emotionally invested in our con game. The investment here is important - the more work our enemies do, the less they will think critically about what they're doing because they are so emotionally invested in it. If we give away all the info, we give them time to actually think about what they're doing, and we can't afford to do that. Instead of carefully keeping an eye on Jaimeson and checking out whether we're actually dead or not, the blood hunt will force his hand and cause him to establish contact with Jamieson because he will feel pressured to do so. We will have forced him to make an irrational decision. And that's before he even knows about the Caecilian to begin with.

We also can't let Dubrik know about the Caecilian at this point because we don't know if he will even tell Angelus about it even if he believes it's true. If we keep things mundane at that point, Dubrik will be far more likely to talk to Angelus and get him to meet up with us. If he knows about some Tzimisce abomination, well, maybe he might not be willing to share that kind of information with what seems like a very competent person like Angelus who might be able to use it against him in the future. Making things mundane will keep Dubrik honest.

Think of it as a trail of bread crumbs. The first bread crumb is the staged murder, which will make the Sabbat curious. The second bread crumb is the blood hunt, which gives Jamieson authenticity and puts a time pressure to Dubrik to contact Don ASAP. The final step is where we really start playing these guys for suckers. At this point, the London Sabbat will still have some suspicions, but after Don gets through putting his charms on them, and they find out the "real" reason he killed us (to prevent us from using the Caecilian for some idiotic Ventrue feud, of course), the Caecilian will sound like a godsend. At every step of the way, we're hooking them deeper and deeper, and they're thinking less critically as a result. They are constantly back on their heels and forced to react to the situations we throw at them without giving them time to pause.

I don't want to get du Marchais involved in this, but leaking the Caecilian info is what I am the most adamantly opposed to. The best part about option B is that information is fed in a way that feels far more "organic" than the other ones, and I feel that by just giving it away we end up losing what is option B's greatest strength.

I don't want to kill du Marchais yet, for a couple of reasons. While his death would add even more legitimacy to the blood hunt, I feel that a dead Anthony and Edgar will do the trick just fine as well. Second, when we come back from the dead, the Prince will be very pissed off that we killed him. After this is over, I want to have favour with the Prince so that we have some leverage against any future bullshit Eames tries to pull on us. Like I said, just because his stock is falling, doesn't mean we're allowed to touch him. We restrain ourselves now, and when we come out of this victorious, we'll really be able to stick it to him. Also, I may have a few plans involving gaining his confidence now that he's desperate, getting a blood hunt called on him, then engaging in some Camarilla-approved diablerie.

There's also the question of logistics to consider. If not for the Caecilian, under what pretenses do we invite du Marchais over? Also, the guy uses almost no technology, it's not like we can call him up, either.

Now, about feeding the Caecillian with napalm canisters: the canisters can be small enough to fid in a chicken. Note, however, that Karthik fed it corpses! So we shouldn't have too much problems with bringing some large chunks of meat down there.

I agree. Surely, if Karthik can get this thing to stop eating his fat ass, we certainly can. We will have Edgar and his thugs with us, I'm sure that between us we can bring enough corpses to provide the Caecilian with a lengthy enough feast that it won't think about us.

I suggest a demolition expert to emplace Erika-provided explosive onto the wall of the cliff. However this run the risk of worms killed him even if we try to protect, so it's best if we can get a disposable kine. If Humphrey could provide an expert to be used and discarded, superb. But if not, I am thinking of Dominating the Kine Chezza, one petty criminal weaponseller of our acquaintance and have him do it.

What do you think?

I think that this is clever. However, I'd rather avoid losing our Humanity by letting an innocent Kine get devoured like that. Edgar also seems like a decent guy, and I think this wouldn't sit well with him either. So let's go with Storyfag's suggestion and feed it corpses/animal parts as a distraction while we rig up the napalm.

 

[laclongquan]

Too big a risk! yet we dont have enough talented vamps to rely on. So what choice do we have?

Well, lets' hope that the training in the army still stay with us or this gonna be a very short update. Keep it as plan B.

On the humanity loss, I disagree. It's not like we intentionally lose the man to the worms or anything. Like I said, we will try to protect him. And if things success we will hide/imprison him somehwere safe so he wont blab about it during the operation. The problem is that we dont know any vamp with the necessary knowledge other than us. And the availble experts seem to be mostly kine. Let's leave us doing this shit as plan B when we cant find expert for the job.

The key of command is choosing the right man for the right job, not do that job yourself.

 

[SCO]

OK guys, I've thought about using a modified form of option B. The biggest drawback to Jamieson's current idea is that as is, it will piss off the Sheriff because it requires actually killing people on our own side. We need Schiller's continued support to give us some actual power and make sure that we aren't horribly dependent on Eames. If we kill the Sculptor and get some of Schiller's people killed because of our Malk's wacky plan, there is no way that Erika will stand up for us and say that it was our idea to begin with if Eames tries to take credit. Having the Sheriff on our side will keep any bullshit Eames tries to pull in check.

So, to ensure that we stay on good terms with Erika (and maintain possible romance options, of course ) and give Jamieson an in with the Sabbat, we have to fake someone's death. Our own. We'll call up Amanda to come by to provide us with extra muscle now that the war with the Sabbat is going on. While that's going on, Jamieson will come in and shoot the Patrician, "killing" him. He'll also shoot and wound Wilkinson (as far as he knows, she's Camarilla), and just as he is about to deliver the killing blow, Edgar will swoop in to save the day and save her from being killed. However, in the midst of the chaos, Don will "escape" using Obfuscate. Of course, Edgar will order Wilkinson to immediately go to the Sheriff and tell her about the murder while he goes after the killer. At that point, the Sheriff will call a blood hunt on him.

Thoughts? Of course it goes without saying that we can't be seen anywhere after Wilkinson thinks we're dead, so we'll have to set up surveillance, explosives and call all the people that we need to call before we do this.

I love it.

Vote for this (and the trap ofcourse).

 

[SCO]

This LP kicks grotsnik.


Yes! B, with Jamieson shooting us instead of Schillers men.

In terms of details, don't we need to make it look like we've become ash in the aftermath?

I don't quite remember what happens. Does the skeleton remains, (as it shows briefly on bloodlines?)

Then i'd suggest using the skeletons "found" during the raid. Kinda poetic justice at that.

Also , prepare a bolthole for jamieson in the sewers so he can be safe there when inevetably he is invited to go with Angelos to the temple of power. It could even be him to detonate the thing (leave the detonator -and a flamethrower - just for mopup you understand - on the bolthole)

We don't need oscar.

 

[Murk]

I feel as though Jamieson may end up actually killing us... we are all secondary actors to his grand action hero, after all...

Sounds risky, I donno if I like it at all.

 

[Esquilax]

Also , prepare a bolthole for jamieson in the sewers so he can be safe there when inevetably he is invited to go with Angelos to the temple of power. It could even be him to detonate the thing (leave the detonator -and a flamethrower - just for mopup you understand - on the bolthole)

We don't need oscar.

No way I am giving Jamieson that much of a free reign. Having our hand on the detonator will keep Donnie honest. We will be in our apartment with the detonator and a camera to view the proceedings.

We can't let a Malk who thinks that everyone around him is an NPC in a cRPG run around without any kind of supervision. Sounds like a recipe for disaster, IMO. If we have the detonator, then he has to depend on us to make things as fun as possible for him. And the funnest possible scenario with us at the helm will be a fiery inferno that wipes out a London Sabbat leader and his entire entourage.

Dude, with him having the detonator, we have no idea what kind of crazy shit he will decide to concoct if he decides he's found something more amusing to occupy his time. We need to keep him in check, and having our hand on the trigger will do this.

Remember grotsnik's description:

So if you want to understand when you need to be careful with him, in a nutshell - the riskier the project the more fun he'll have devising ingenious ways to work it, and he likes being given objectives. But the fact that he likes you doesn't mean you can control him, particularly when he's out of sight.

We can't keep our eyes on him while he's with the Sabbat obviously, but we can make sure that he stays on his best behaviour if we're the one providing the most entertainment for him.

 

[SCO]

Also , prepare a bolthole for jamieson in the sewers so he can be safe there when inevetably he is invited to go with Angelos to the temple of power. It could even be him to detonate the thing (leave the detonator -and a flamethrower - just for mopup you understand - on the bolthole)

We don't need oscar.

No way I am giving Jamieson that much of a free reign. Having our hand on the detonator will keep Donnie honest. We are letting a Malk who thinks that everyone around him is an NPC in a cRPG run around without any kind of supervision. Sounds like a recipe for disaster, IMO. If we have the detonator, then he has to depend on us to make things as fun as possible for him. And the funnest possible scenario with us at the helm will be a fiery inferno that wipes out a London Sabbat leader and his entire entourage.

Dude, with him having the detonator, we have no idea what kind of crazy shit he will decide to concoct if he decides he's found something more amusing to occupy his time. We need to keep him in check, and having our hand on the trigger will do this.

Remember grotsnik's description:

So if you want to understand when you need to be careful with him, in a nutshell - the riskier the project the more fun he'll have devising ingenious ways to work it, and he likes being given objectives. But the fact that he likes you doesn't mean you can control him, particularly when he's out of sight.

We can't keep our eyes on him while he's with the Sabbat obviously, but we can make sure that he stays on his best behaviour if we're the one providing the most entertainment for him.

We keep two detonators. If he doesn't deliver we detonate it before going in and be careful of the bolthole obviously /maybe even leave a additional secret bomb on yet another separate detonator there, just in case).

Look, for me it's pretty obvious that the Angelos, even if he goes there, will keep Don near him, since that is his assurance that it's not a trap.

We need to have a way to allow Don to be safeish, otherwise he will die too (and probably blab about the trap before going in).

As he thinks of himself as a action hero, he will think he can do it.
A pity malks don't have celerity. That is the ultimate in running away.