In Progress Let's be a pagan in CK2

[Kayerts]

I'm posting my LP of Duke of Karelia -> King of Finland soon. Playing as a Pagan CAN be done, but only if you can build up a strong kingdom before Christians come knocking.

Yeah, it's definitely doable. Although possibly even stupider for the Norsemen than the Finns, since they start out closer to Christendom. Also, there are a total of like three independent Norse states, so my natural power base is going to be tiny.

Naturally I wouldn't mind, you do whatever you like. I'd probably end up reading it.

We shall sit alongside the Allfather's table in Valhalla.

 

[Merkwürdigliebe]

Bug caused me lose my entire post in the middle of writing it. Going to have to do this tomorrow instead.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I'm posting my LP of Duke of Karelia -> King of Finland soon. Playing as a Pagan CAN be done, but only if you can build up a strong kingdom before Christians come knocking.

Yeah, it's definitely doable. Although possibly even stupider for the Norsemen than the Finns, since they start out closer to Christendom. Also, there are a total of like three independent Norse states, so my natural power base is going to be tiny.

Actually, Finns have a couple of advantages over the Norse areas... Namely that Estonia and Finland Propria are really good for the Fennoscandic area, having three extra holding slots and start with both a Castle and a City.

 

[Merkwürdigliebe]

2. Bloody rebels

Back again, first thing to do is attempting to fabricating claims on a Welsh county in order to prepare for future expansion.

Previously I took the opportunity to arrange for a few Norse pagans to come to my court. Through marriages or other means.

Clearly returning to the Old Faith is the only way to prosperity given all the problems caused by Christianity. Sanctioned invasions, excommunication and ridiculous demands no more.

The first thing to do now is to appoint a chief diviner for religious matters.

I invite another pagan to the court, not the brightest mind but he will have to do since there are rather few people who aren't Christians right now.

I immediately send him out to spread the faith in Middlesex

However the Kings conversion do not sit well with some of the nobility who are strongly Christian, though so far the kingdom is stable.

Interestingly there is no holy war available for Pagans, but thats alright as it makes it harder and probably more accurate as well.

Another son is born.

This is a look at direct vassals of realm, the big blob in the north is the Duke of Lancaster. Essentially he controls pretty much more than half of it.

I give the Duke of Lancaster an honorary title in the hopes that it will keep him pacified for now at least.

Time for some more upgrades in my counties.

Well that certainly is good news.

Though there is certainly a long way to go, all vassals remain Christian. And only that small gray area is pagan.

I request that one my vassals convert from Christianity. Since I raised him to the position of count he likes me well enough to accept.

My eldest son and heir also accepts to convert, excellent the survival of the faith is secured in the line of succession.

Things are going quite well so far and Harold becomes ambitious.

Quite a good thing, however vassals or courtiers with it should be kept on a short leash as they tend to be treacherous.

A warrior cult is established in the newly converted lands.

Further north things do not go so well as the commoners cling to their beliefs.

No not going to happen for two reason. One I'm not going to give out land to a potential throne claimant who is likely to rebel, two he remains Christian making him yet more likely to do so.

Let's see what comes of this.

Yes let's try falconry, I don't think being depressed instead would solve anything.

Interestingly my religion and crown authority would allow me to revoke any titles held by Christians with out penalty including from other Christian lords. Which feels a bit broken so I'm not going to do that unless they are traitors and rebel.

I manage to convince my brother the duke of norfolk to convert as well not revoking his titles after his rebellion and keeping in good relations paid of.

Well thats no good, and can lead to some bad stuff. Madness among other things I think.

No mercenaries are available to me after converting, though hopefully the increase in soldiers I will see from it should more than make up for it.

The king continues aging and becomes ill.

Some minor Christian count takes the opportunity to rebel.

Shortly after the king recovers

And the single county is easily beaten

The Duke of Lancaster is becoming more powerful, worrisome.

Not good at all.

After having defeated the rebellious Christian count I revoke his title and take it for my self and banish him.

Another child.

Then shit hits the fan. Civil war between the (mostly) pagan lords of the south the Christians of the north break out. Though the common folk remains Christian still.

And my allies decide that they do not like me any more since I do not worship a crucified zombie.

Levy the troops, it's time to crush the traitors.

The Lancaster army approachers. As long as they don't hire any mercs or call allies I should be fine.

The enemy is attacked when they attempt to lay siege to a castle.

Not a bad victory at all, and some prisoners to ransom of as well.

The remnants of enemy army is pursued.

A son is born, this one is a dwarf pagan.

The kings shows his new found bravery in battle. Clearly a follow of Odin has nothing to fear in battle.

I decide to lay siege to an enemy stronghold, though disease and attrition is a problem.

My wife remains a Christian and attempted to have my heir assassinated. Let her rot in the dungeon.

Another small enemy army appears, this should be no problem to handle.

The battle is easily won.

However the King falls in battle. Surely Valhalla awaits such a brave warrior.

A new king is crowned, though some vassals do not approve, especially the Duke of Kent. The last Christian major noble in the south.

Now that my alliance with the HRE is of no use I see no reason to keep my rather useless and heathen wife.

Though there isn't really any support for such a plot.

I resort to a good old fashioned assassination, it works perfectly, well on the second attempt. The first one failed but was not discovered.

I find a new pagan wife instead, who is of considerably more use. Further more the old one was getting older and was yet to give birth to more than a single daughter.

Time for a new ambition. To secure the line of succession.

And then my uncle the filthy Christian traitor decides to rebel as well.

Further more the peasants rise in revolt to top it of. Rebells, rebells every where.

 

[Cassidy]

Good luck.

Without mercenaries, without a religious CB and surrounded by ambitious Christian kingdoms, you'll definitively need it.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Warrior Cult does give him an advantage early on though.

 

[Merkwürdigliebe]

Good luck.

Without mercenaries, without a religious CB and surrounded by ambitious Christian kingdoms, you'll definitively need it.

Yeah I will need it. Things get better further down the line.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

You'll probably want to add in the modded independence war CB, so giant empires aren't as super-stable and blobbing without end in sight (of course, it'd make the war you're currently in a lot harder).

Also, aim at reducing your vassals to one ducal title at the very maximum in order to reduce their power. Similarly, don't give away ducal titles to any families that already have one, and don't grant ducal titles before you conquer all of its claims for yourself (this way you can eject the catholic barons, mayors and bishops) and only then set up the vassal duchy.

Another thing that's important is to never have counties, direct vassals or holdings in a region you aren't a duke of, as there's a -25 relations penalty with the duke for each county or vassal (or holding if county is possessed but holding isn't) that you have in the duchy. It's far easier to just deal with the "desires Duchy X" penalty than the bigger list. This also means that you'll want to hold on to a rich (= 3 or more extra holdings) core area (ie, a king of Denmark should never share any of his areas, since they're ridiculously fucking rich) of 1-3 duchies. Also, baronies should always be made into vassals (preferably to a minor family without titles or to a brand new hedge knight you bring in), as they're easy to manage and the benefit of having a county instead of a barony in your demesne max cap is far bigger (since the county brings in all the holdings with it).

Your first order of business should be breaking up the Duchy of Lancaster, preferably by stripping the imprisoned duke of all his titles and redistributing them in a more stable network of weaker vassals (while keeping the best shit for yourself). I point out again, that if a duchy's de jure massive it's better to keep the ducal title and have single-province vassals underneath you.

After you deal with the ducal instability, you should conquer Wales and Ireland piecemeal (they are small, and have valuable land), and finally take control of Scotland in order to make the kingdom's land borders absolutely secure. Attacking the continent is a fool's errand, France and HRE have tremendous reserves and are best left to their own devices. The only way to fight them is to take advantage of your heathen status: Assassins galore to promote instability through regencies.

 

[Merkwürdigliebe]

3. Holy Invasion

After having defeated all the rebel armies my own is completely spent. So I disband it and re raise it with the now somewhat replenished levies.

I head north to destroy the Lancaster army before they can regroup to full strength.

And then back south to finish off the Duchy of Kent so that I can concentrate fully on the longer war in the north.

While sieging one of their castles more peasant rebels. Well they can wait.

Things were going quite well until this happened. I suppose I shouldn't have been so quick about killing of my wife. he may not have honored the alliance but at least it kept him from attacking me.

The siege if won and another province converts.

Time to deal with those rebells.

I initiate the construction of a warrior cult in Bedford now that it has converted. I will likely need all the soldiers I can get.

Concerned about the possible invasion I'm forced to accept only a white peace. I will have to wait with cutting Lancaster down to size.

A small HRE force lands. Though I'm going to deal with Kent first as they are nearly defeated.

Or on second thought dealing with the enemy while I have numerical advantage will make it much easier so I deal with the HRE army first.

And a son is born, good now the line of succession is safe and in the case of the death of the King the throne won't pass to a heathen.

It would appear that he is a dwarf. Well I hope he can prove worthy of his name in any case when he inherits the throne.

The HRE army is defeated and some minor nobles are taken prisoner.

However as soon as the last army was dealt with another lands, and my army is now to worn out to realistically win.

So I'm going to attempt to force Kent to surrender and then disband and raise any replenished levies.

Excellent, the siege if proceeding well.

I attempt to assault the remaining holdings, which are fort level 0.

No that didn't work and now I'm worse of with nearly no army.

I raise what ever levies that are available. Most of the nobles of the north despise me so I don't get a whole lot of soldiers from them.

Though when my army is assembled the HRE comes seeking battle.

Just going to run away from that one.

Great more enemies.

Going to deal with these peasants first so that I can unite my force. They have also nearly taken the castle of the province something I want to prevent.

Another siege is lost.

I head south to finish of Kent.

With those holdings taken the Duke of Kent surrenders and is imprisoned.

He is both a traitor and a heathen so I decide to revoke all of his titles of hand them out to loyal subjects.

I create 3 new counts, and give one of them the Ducal title for for Kent.

I'm going to attempt to change my feudal levies laws. If passed it would increase my levies from feudal vassals by 25% for a minor relation hit.

The enemy is coming, time to bravely run away.

Time to (hopefully) retake Oxford.

A look to the south. The Christan Kings of Iberia have pretty much been crushed by the Muslims.

I consider assassinating the HRE emperor, however the odds are so poor for success that I'm not willing to risk it.

The enemy is larger but I try to get him to follow to a good defensible position, and I might just be able to do a good deal of damage. Hill terrain plus river crossing is a pretty good bonus combined.

Though they don't follow and instead go to siege other provinces. Good I can then retake Oxford. It doesn't really matter if they hold the North as I get nothing from it any way.

My army is starting to recover from previous losses. So I will attempt to quickly assault these holding since they only have very small garrisons.

It worked well and now the enemy is in pursuit again.

Only to stop again.

Northhampton once again chances hands.

Time to retake Norfolk.

Though during the siege another HRE army lands. So I decide to attack it before it can merge with the main force.

Killing of some rebells and some courtier converts.

I disband my army again and regroup in the North to avoid direct battle.

Meanwhile there is a new King of France. At least he didn't inherit his mothers claim on the English throne.

Excellent, the defenders of Winchester is fighting the good fight.

Another son is born.

I was thinking that I would eventually be capable of whittling down the HRE army. However then this happens.

I could defeat the Scottish army, but not while fighting the HRE.

Though so far I just keep out of reach of the HRE and retake any lost holdings as soon as they move on.

More enemies? This is just to much to be able to handle with out any mercenaries.

And now the Scots are raising their armies.

Very well I shall have to accept defeat to the Empire so that I may focus on the Scottish and give them a good beating.

The count of Essex becomes independent following the peace settlement. However he agrees to become my vassal.

Well at least it's now only one enemy.

it's an very even battle.

Though I lose the battle. I would appear they had more heavy troops than I had.

Though now I have more warriors available as the Duke of Lancaster has become more positive towards me as I am defending his titles/lands allowing me to raise more soldiers.

This time they will lose.

Excellent the Scottish army is beaten. Time to take this fight to the enemy.

 

[Cassidy]

The HRE will finish you off after 100 years.

 

[Luzur]

in my game yesterday HRE was beaten badly by the Byzantium Empire.

i guess the BE agreed to a white peace later on since the HRE jsut lost some provinces in Italy after the peace.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Are you using my modded independence_cb yet? Without it HRE, France and BE are too stable.

 

[Luzur]

huh? no, i have yet to find a link for it?

 

[Kayerts]

You'll probably want to add in the modded independence war CB, so giant empires aren't as super-stable and blobbing without end in sight (of course, it'd make the war you're currently in a lot harder).

The HRE will finish you off after 100 years.

These bros are bros, but don't listen to them, Merk. The most metal thing you can do in CK2 is face down the Kaiser's endless armies with your tiny Viking nation and show the Germans the price of betraying Great Wotan. If Odin smiles, you will grind them beneath your heel. If Odin laughs, you will drink from his cup in Valhalla!

Death or glory! It is the Viking Way!

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

huh? no, i have yet to find a link for it?

Here's the modified CB:

bid_for_independence = {
name = CB_NAME_INDEPENDENCE
war_name = WAR_NAME_INDEPENDENCE
sprite = 12
truce_days = 3650

is_permanent = yes
is_independence = yes

can_use = {
ROOT = {
de_facto_liege = FROM
}

FROM = {
NOT = {
any_war = {
attacker = {
character = FROM
}
OR = {
using_cb = bid_for_independence
using_cb = depose_liege
}
}
}
}
}

is_valid = {
ROOT = {
OR = {
liege = {
character = PREV # either independent
}
liege = {
FROM = {
is_liege_or_above = PREV # or have shared liege
}
}
}
}
FROM = {
higher_tier_than = ROOT
}
}

on_success = {
if = {
limit = {
FROM = {
independent = no
}
}
FROM = {
liege = {
ROOT = {
set_defacto_liege = PREV
}
}
}
}

if = {
limit = {
FROM = {
independent = yes
}
}
ROOT = {
set_defacto_liege = ROOT
}
}

ROOT = {
prestige = 200
primary_title = {
add_pressed_claim = FROM
}
}

FROM = {
transfer_scaled_wealth = {
to = ROOT
value = 6.0
}
prestige = -400
any_demesne_title = { # All titles
limit = {
OR = {
tier = king
tier = emperor
}
is_titular = no
NOT = { has_law = centralization_0 }
}
if = {
limit = { has_law = centralization_1 }
add_law = centralization_0
}
if = {
limit = { has_law = centralization_2 }
add_law = centralization_1
}
if = {
limit = { has_law = centralization_3 }
add_law = centralization_2
}
if = {
limit = { has_law = centralization_4 }
add_law = centralization_3
}
}
}
}

on_fail = {if = {
limit = {
FROM = {
independent = no
}
}
FROM = {
liege = {
ROOT = {
set_defacto_liege = PREV
}
}
}
}

if = {
limit = {
FROM = {
independent = yes
}
}
ROOT = {
set_defacto_liege = ROOT
}
}

ROOT = {
prestige = -100
primary_title = {
add_pressed_claim = FROM
}
}

FROM = {
prestige = -50
any_demesne_title = { # All titles
limit = {
OR = {
tier = king
tier = emperor
}
is_titular = no
NOT = { has_law = centralization_0 }
}
if = {
limit = { has_law = centralization_1 }
add_law = centralization_0
}
if = {
limit = { has_law = centralization_2 }
add_law = centralization_1
}
if = {
limit = { has_law = centralization_3 }
add_law = centralization_2
}
if = {
limit = { has_law = centralization_4 }
add_law = centralization_3
}
}
}
}

on_reverse_demand = {
ROOT = {
prestige = -200
prisoner = FROM
}
FROM = {
prestige = 50
}
}

on_attacker_leader_death = {
any_defender = {
letter_event = {
id = 251
}
}

end_war = invalid
}

attacker_ai_victory_worth = {
factor = -1 # always accept
}

attacker_ai_defeat_worth = {
factor = 150
}

defender_ai_victory_worth = {
factor = -1 # always accept
}

defender_ai_defeat_worth = {
factor = 100
}
}


What it does is make it so that White Peace in an independence war means independence for the rebel, and the rebel enforcing demands means really heavy prestige hit and reparations to the liege on top of it.