Retarded or not, judge by yourself. Hold firm its gonna be an essay;
RPG come with story to justify players slaughter. Game Designers always base physics in plot scripts on realistic assumptions, about human bio-mechanic and body damage handling.
The main problem is lack of proper wound conditions. Commonly you just have two state: alive, fully functioning (even with last 1HP) or dead (not functioning at all, hell even the game is over). And to change between this two, you have to scrape off layer of HP. The bigger the HP layer, the more abstract the combat become. From stressful, fight for survive change into repetitive labor.
Writing about realism; exposition to hazardous environment, lots of damage to go through, quarrelsome style of live - all this “experience” rather should render one's less healthy, than more with levels.
===================
If we put it ad absurdum; assume there is no HP, each hit is dead. Game start to be more realistic(!). Miss will also mean that the attack don't do enough harm (only light wounds) to kill character. The D&D armor class explanation start to make sens. Intermediate state between life and dead (wounded), we treat as such a rare event, that never occur for a group of 6 person, but few examples might be encounter in battlefield or in plundered village.
===================
HP system also come with specific tactics, very clear in RTS games like Warcraft 3. All against one; since units has 2 states, you want to kill foes one by one.
Since shoot-outs and sword fights usually end with insta-kills, imagine clash of two groups of hooligans, punching, kicking and grappling each other (less lethal, more close to RPG vision of combat). Would it make sens for one group to encircle single opponent and focus to beat him unconscious? No, because they will expose self for focused, powerful attacks.
In RPG's thous attacks are treat as highly specialized "Sneak attacks", that only skilled assassins can perform, if they hide before. The point is, if there is someone in opponents team not engaged in combat, he can choose someone who is and strike him down with single move. To prevent it, you always want every foe be bonded into fight. [in rpg terms you want to detect your enemy thiefs]
Having unexpected strike is the key attribute to win a fight (its not so essential, if foe just lose 15% HP).
=============
Simplest solution is to insert thresholds (50% HP wounded, -10 to hit; 10%HP unconscious).
But lets try more sophisticated system. Insert wound condition to describe character state, which would work as Poison or Disease status.
First divide wounds from HP (yet not completely resign from HP's). Let wounds be condition (like poison, disease), not pool of points.
Guys get struck with mace, check if damage is high enough to wound him (or maim or kill). If so he's penalized (have harder time with attacks and/or defense). Each wound separately make victim more mutilated, more prone to higher damage, eventually next hit will eliminate character from combat. Devs can limit number of wounds; crossing limit end with one level more serious condition.
=============
Death spiral complain
Yes, that is the point. You're passive chance to win decrease. Same as with all (de)buffs effect that are present in every RPG (they also decrease your chances to win a combat). You become more aware of your useable skills, items, party members and environment you can use into your advantage.
If one's activity is limited solely into hit checking (no use of skill, team members, items, environment, escaping), then dumbass deserve his fate.
==========
Healing
Wounds have sens, if they effect wear off with reasonably long time. If you can heal 2 level of wounds with instant spell during combat, they existence is not noticeable.
Why games don’t use, god dammit, wound dressing to improve Health?! Because HP are abstract, games need as abstract potions to regenerate it? Putting bandage, cloth or squeeze (First Aid) should be the first thing you would like to do with your low health, not drinking red beverage.
Painkillers (drugs, stim-packs, alcohol) should remove the penalty from received wounds for some amount of time. Pre-buffing with aspirins to reduce pain during combat and save turn for attack? Sounds sweet.
===========
Turn HP into stamina.
Pool of points are handy to represent wearing character of many factors like poison, hunger, fatigue, work, skill use (spells), running, performing attacks. When you dropped to 0, you just can not longer perform certain action (think about Mana). If you are forced to go below 0, then you are unconscious. HP/stamina should be easily replenishable by consuming food products or resting (sleep, wash or entertainments).
The core of RPG are simulation of worlds similar to ours. The main difference is emphasis on combat, instead of mating. Sure, there are obvious differences (plants, creatures, tools, magic), but root of every rpg universe is same; player impersonate a humanoid, who are solving affairs on his own, with violence.
Every games has some rules to solve problems, and in every RPG you will have one: "how to render my opponent incapable of taking hostile action against me?", short "how to kill'im?".
Every games has some rules to solve problems, and in every RPG you will have one: "how to render my opponent incapable of taking hostile action against me?", short "how to kill'im?".
- last words from dying NPC,
- seriously wounded NPC, unable to help PC,
- presence of maimed NPC,
- description of tactics, involving bleeding, tiring opponents
- appearance of NPC with wound-connected items/tools; bandage, eye-patch, prosthesis
- battlefields with dying soldiers,
- hospitals with ill patient.
- "WTF dude, stop bitching. Me and my mates (who are from your world, have family here, were growing up in this cottage), were reduced even to 1HP. I'm dying like twice a day",
- "No worry I give you red potion and you will be healthy as new born. Jezz, why don’t you even take it by yourself! They are under every rocks here",
- "Find ingredients for cure? This is lots of work! Can you just die and I will resurrect you? Just add half of the scroll cost to reward"
- "Why bother? I already catch this illness multiple times in dungeons. I can cure this peasants with my Cure Disease spell.",
- "Water chip? I spend years in dessert without drop of water.".
The main problem is lack of proper wound conditions. Commonly you just have two state: alive, fully functioning (even with last 1HP) or dead (not functioning at all, hell even the game is over). And to change between this two, you have to scrape off layer of HP. The bigger the HP layer, the more abstract the combat become. From stressful, fight for survive change into repetitive labor.
Fine, experienced soldier are experienced, because they know how to stay alive, that’s why they are bloated with HP. Excuse is good. Still its abstract. From game design perspective its linear, no-brainer save from all kind of harassment. Bad approach. A lot better would be gained resistances to specific factors.OK, but the HP could represent combat experience in avoiding damage, that grow with levels.
- You are boxer, so you are resistant to punches.
- You are soldier, you know which material will be penetrate by bullets, and not to cover behind.
- You are junkie, so you are resistant to poisons.
Writing about realism; exposition to hazardous environment, lots of damage to go through, quarrelsome style of live - all this “experience” rather should render one's less healthy, than more with levels.
===================
If we put it ad absurdum; assume there is no HP, each hit is dead. Game start to be more realistic(!). Miss will also mean that the attack don't do enough harm (only light wounds) to kill character. The D&D armor class explanation start to make sens. Intermediate state between life and dead (wounded), we treat as such a rare event, that never occur for a group of 6 person, but few examples might be encounter in battlefield or in plundered village.
===================
HP system also come with specific tactics, very clear in RTS games like Warcraft 3. All against one; since units has 2 states, you want to kill foes one by one.
Since shoot-outs and sword fights usually end with insta-kills, imagine clash of two groups of hooligans, punching, kicking and grappling each other (less lethal, more close to RPG vision of combat). Would it make sens for one group to encircle single opponent and focus to beat him unconscious? No, because they will expose self for focused, powerful attacks.
In RPG's thous attacks are treat as highly specialized "Sneak attacks", that only skilled assassins can perform, if they hide before. The point is, if there is someone in opponents team not engaged in combat, he can choose someone who is and strike him down with single move. To prevent it, you always want every foe be bonded into fight. [in rpg terms you want to detect your enemy thiefs]
Having unexpected strike is the key attribute to win a fight (its not so essential, if foe just lose 15% HP).
=============
Simplest solution is to insert thresholds (50% HP wounded, -10 to hit; 10%HP unconscious).
But lets try more sophisticated system. Insert wound condition to describe character state, which would work as Poison or Disease status.
First divide wounds from HP (yet not completely resign from HP's). Let wounds be condition (like poison, disease), not pool of points.
- not wounded – effect of hit are too minor to significantly hamper victim performance. Act normal.
- Wounded – victim is impaired, but can still act.
- Maimed – victim can no longer participate in combat, but its not dead. With this state should be introduced losing limbs, bleeding to death, agony. Character is treated as dead, just after time he return to play, like in Pillars of Eternity only with some serious afflictions.
- Dead – kill on spot.
Guys get struck with mace, check if damage is high enough to wound him (or maim or kill). If so he's penalized (have harder time with attacks and/or defense). Each wound separately make victim more mutilated, more prone to higher damage, eventually next hit will eliminate character from combat. Devs can limit number of wounds; crossing limit end with one level more serious condition.
=============
Death spiral complain
If I get wounded, I have less chances to win a combat. I just get more and more penalized
Yes, that is the point. You're passive chance to win decrease. Same as with all (de)buffs effect that are present in every RPG (they also decrease your chances to win a combat). You become more aware of your useable skills, items, party members and environment you can use into your advantage.
If one's activity is limited solely into hit checking (no use of skill, team members, items, environment, escaping), then dumbass deserve his fate.
==========
Healing
Wounds have sens, if they effect wear off with reasonably long time. If you can heal 2 level of wounds with instant spell during combat, they existence is not noticeable.
Why games don’t use, god dammit, wound dressing to improve Health?! Because HP are abstract, games need as abstract potions to regenerate it? Putting bandage, cloth or squeeze (First Aid) should be the first thing you would like to do with your low health, not drinking red beverage.
Painkillers (drugs, stim-packs, alcohol) should remove the penalty from received wounds for some amount of time. Pre-buffing with aspirins to reduce pain during combat and save turn for attack? Sounds sweet.
===========
Turn HP into stamina.
Pool of points are handy to represent wearing character of many factors like poison, hunger, fatigue, work, skill use (spells), running, performing attacks. When you dropped to 0, you just can not longer perform certain action (think about Mana). If you are forced to go below 0, then you are unconscious. HP/stamina should be easily replenishable by consuming food products or resting (sleep, wash or entertainments).
Probably similar topic emerge in past, however I feel interior need to vomit share my retarded reflections about crpg mechanic. At first I also want to elaborate about why I hate spells (that should be skills with items), why I hate increasing power (all this +128 dmg bullshit) of items (riddle of steels! no-body hear about it?!), why I hate extermination of poor foes like goblins, animals and why I hate overpowered guards in towns – and why it's breaking immersion. But since I'm newfag and this post is already too long, let it be about HP only.