KOTOR - Taris Review Ala Crappily Written

[Volourn]

Coffin? Bio is dead? Nope, try again.

 

[Transcendent One]

Sadly, no, Bioware is far from dead.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Anyone else here think star wars completely sucks in general?
I wouldn't play a Star Wars game period..
The final nail in the coffin for Bioware to me was them making Star Wars games-
If it matters, George Lucas is also a complete pompous asshole.

Yes, he is. I agree completely about that. BUT, I liked the first two Star Wars movies. And I am NOT talking Episodes 1 and 2. I mean Episodes 4 and 5. Empire Strikes Back was a very good sci-fi movie and one of my faves for sure. The Star Wars universe in general is not that bad, if implemented properly. But it's not my fave Sci-Fi setting. Far from it, actually.

Sadly, no, Bioware is far from dead.

Heh.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I am here to present my mini-review, with counterpoints to Volourn's own.

Graphics: Let's start with the easy one. The grapghics are as close to perfect as I think a game can get. Gazing around the city is a beautiful sight. The sewers are definitely a horrible place, and I can almost swear they smell too. Now, some have complained that the faces are overused; but I surely didn't notice this so no big deal. Thumbs up here. Way up.

I can't disagree with you there. I've been playing the game on the highest settings (with Frame Buffer disabled, due to my GF4 TI4200 not being good enough) and it looks top notch. There are certain areas which cause the game to lag immensely however and sometimes need you to quit/restart the game to nullify the issue. It's a minor hassle and though it doesn't happen much, I hope Bioware fixes it because it's got the ability to interrupt my long runs of the game.

Music/Sound/Voiceovers: The music is good; but its too low in the background. Needs to be louder; but overall solid soundtrack with your typical SW fare.

I feel that the music (made by Soule) is hardly "typical SW fare". It feels more to me along the lines of Morrowind than anything else. I don't here one bit of the Star Wars score in here.

Controls: Meh. I don't care for them. Theys eem clunky compared to other games. You can't even use the mouse to move.

Maybe if you paid more attention to the tutorial you'd know how to use the mouse to move, which isn't difficult by the way - though I prefer keyboard/camera movement myself, being already oriented to MMORPGS and Morrowind. Just hold the right mouse button down to enter movement mode and press left mouse button to move FORWARD. Saint's complained about the mouse dissapearing and perhaps that is a little disorienting (e.g. it should be chained into a 'forward' icon). As long as you have mouselook on (which is on by default) there shouldn't be a problem with orientation. Just don't play it adventure style.

Playing it adventure style is a great, amazing way to detract from ANY game's immersiveness because it feels like you're giving orders to your character more, rather than actually being your character.

It's just there to click on options, and move the camera around. using the keyboard to move your character around is just plain annoying to me. Good thing the pseudo turn base combat occurs more calmly so you can take your time.

I don't mean to sound like a Bioware fanboy but people with this problem usually suffer from some degree of Asperger's Syndrome and have a lot of difficulty multitasking.

Unlike NWN, it most definitely feels more hectic, and closer to tb thanks to the option of pausing at the end of each round. This option is a must half! Pathfinding is very good. It's a very rare occurance that either you or your companions get stuck on anything. YAY!

It definitely feels more hectic as compared to NWN's rather banal and mind-numbing combat. With that said, I prefer hectic situations - I've never been one for slow, pointless clicking. Pathfinding is very good and I've yet to see an NPC get stuck on anything. I've seen it happen on the X-Box version but it seems that they may have tweaked the AI settings up a notch to cater to the PC's processing capabilities.

Combat: Combat is usually on the easy side; but there are fights that are challenging, and one that is very much impossible. I just used another option given to you to pass the battle by with less risk to my party. The number of combat options that one can use is not as many as NWN, or TOEE; but it blows most other crpgs away including the IE games.

While the combat is definitely not as tactical as TOEE it certainly surpasses that of NWN's (which only allowed for a single uncontrollable henchman) and the IE games, which were nothing more than mad rushes. I've found myself using the Tab key heavily to switch between my party characters to queue various attacks and force abilities to aid my party as a whole during combat. It's not really a hassle due to the pause mode and the fact that you've only got three characters in the party at once.

It is actually worthwhile to specialing in a one handed weapon unlikes
some other games...Enemies are of average AI; but they sure do love their grenades. Your allies' AI does leave a lot to be desire.. They don't seem willing to heal themsleves, and mostly stick to just plain old attacks.

They do heal themselves, just not with medikits (Bastilla uses force heal if she has it, and will heal you as well). Their better attacks become more apparent throughout the game. I think that the NPCs just don't consider using 'power shot' all that useful at its lowest level when the chances of it hitting an enemy are far less than that of a normal shot. At the present, I have Bastilla running around with her double-sided lightstaff doing multiple flurries and using her force abilities. It's certainly nice to have a girl disable every enemy droid she encounters and casting whirlwind, push or stasis on sentients. Hardly 'plain old attacks'. Just be sure to tweak the script setting in the game to make them utilize various tactics. My Carth is a grenadier.

It is a very good thing that you can just striaght out control them in combat (which I'm sure is th reason they didn't go any more in depth with companion AI). Combat is simply fun for the most part as the battles will kill you if you just rush in thinking nothing bad will occur. Another thing I like is you don't tend to fight a mass of enemies; it's usually 4-6 maximum.

Yeah. There's no Diablo II-esque hording in this game. Monsters come in manageable groups and there's always various ways of wiping them out (i.e. through hacking consoles and turning thedefenses against them, or enabling a security droid to help you out.)

Character Creation/Development: Solid; but not spectatcular. Skills are used a lot including ones dealing with computer, mines, and stuff. Very nice to have. Persuausion si good to have. As a solider, my persuade is "only" +4, and it came in handy; but there were times I wihs I had a better skill.

Silly goose - don't you ever think of the Force? I spent absolutely nothing on Persuade, knowing very well (And reading the manual) that Force Persuade would come into play sooner or later - and it does.

One prime example is that seemingly you can join one of the two gangs on the planet. I only seemingly as I only chose to join one side; but I beleive it can be done.

Yes, it can be done. The game offers a very vast range of choices, despite looking 'expensive' all the time. In my experience, games which look 'expensive' or polished are usually very, very linear - such as Anachronox, because most of the time in developement is spent on things other than the story/gameplay and more on graphics and sound. It's nice to see LucasArts and bioware didn't skimp out on this game, offering a wide variety of things to do and paths to follow without succumbing to horrible linearity, despite the 'polished' look of the game.

NPCs: Ahh, this is the shining glory of KOTOR. I have never seen a game that has uniformly well written, and interesting npcs. Out of the 6 I now have in my party; only one is kind of bland; but it has a good exuse, it's just a silly robot. Bastila, Zaalbar, Mission, Carth, and Canderous all have interetsing historyies, and persoanlities. Their voices aren't annoying either - I thought Misison's would be; but no. Only T3-M4 loses on the interesting side bit; but you still get some humourous one sided conversations from them. If you want details of the npcs; let me know.

What I like most about the NPCs is how they interact with each other during your conversations. I have, for instance, had Bastilla and Carth argue over the merits of the freedom of privacy versus justice. Most games, like those of the Baldur's Gate line, only have NPCs speak to you one at a time, and their conversations which each other would be highly limited (Edwin never spoke to Keldorn, for example). KOTOR surprises me this way because the discussions they have with each other reveal more about their pasts, their supposed thoughts and ideals and their stance on the situations encountered. In the BG games it was typically 'good versus evil' whereas Carth holds a grudge against the Jedi Council for not helping out early in the Mandalorian Wars (of which Carth was a soldier to the Republic), to cite one example.

Dark side vs. Light side is where the role-playing comes into play. I wnated to beomce ultime dueling champ and collect on a bounty; but in the end stopped short of completing these quests because I'd have been forced to kill someone in basiclaly cold blood. Not good, indeed..

Yeah, I do enjoy quests like those. However, while I did not take pleasure in kiling him I did however feel I was doing the world some 'greater good' by ending death matches altogether with his death, even if it meant earning a few points towards the Dark Side - so long as I don't go all the way. The Dark Side is about fury, vendetta and all that so I wouldn't give into it too often or it could consume me.

Space Shooting - Bah. I hate this mini game. It's even ahrd to tell whether you are doing well, or poorly as there's no indicator at all. You literlaly are shooting blind. Very short mini game so no biggy in the long run unless you fall for the same trap I did as explained in my bugs report.

I hate this one.

Bugs: Not much here; but I did suffer from two apparant ones including a pretty big one. The first is simply the running animation repeating adnauseum. This either goes away on its own rather quick (within 5 minutes), or by just restarting the game.

I've never had this happen to me. I've had 'stutter' issues though - which are far worse. They've both been recognised as bugs with various hardware and hopefully they'll be fixed soon. It's hard to enjoy a long run of the game when that happens.

Length of Time Spent In Chapter: About 10 1/2 hours; but it surely felt longer. I think the game's timer is off a tad.

Could it be perhaps of reloading?

Conclusion: This is agreat,a nd fun game. However, if you dislike all of the other Bioware style games; you'll probably be best moving on and giving the game a past as it's very much a BIO game through and though. Any speciifc questions; don't hesitate to ask, harass, or flame.
.

No way. Don't pass this one up. I've never been a fan of NWN (and in fact hated it) and as much as I played BG and BG2, my excuse is that there was really nothing else to play at the time - and those game were hardly interactive. I'd have to say that KOTOR is indeed Bioware's best game and far surpasses any expectation I had for it prior to actually playing it. The game carries the same vibe that Anachronox had for me, and has all of the good parts of Morrowind in it (the graphics, sound, ... minus the piss poor combat and lame interaction)

Guess what, it's my favorite game of the year.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Their leader isn't. In fact, he offers you a job with him... I don't know if you cna accept as I immediately refused. Have you tried to accept? If so, and he says garbage that you cna't be trusted and attacks anyways, that'll be a major bummer..

Yes, you can!

The bad guy even convinced Mission that the old blind man was a liar and that the Hidden Beks are all assholes who deserve to die.

At that point I stepped in and told them to fuck off for trying to turn her to the dark side.

 

[Volourn]

Well.. WOW. You made some good points. Heh. Not much more to say. Who I'm kiddin'? No one disects my posts, and test away with it.

Music - It sounds like SW music to me. That's not a negative since it should sound like SW.

Controls - Aye, even when I found out how to use the mouse to move it still is not confortable to use. It's a pain. Using the keyboard is much more comfortable in ths game. I'd rather click one button, and use the mouse to change the camera view then hold one mouse button, and click the other to. Just annoying.

Combat - We're just going to have to disagree. I found NWN's much more tatical overall; though the fact you can control KOTOR's npcs does help. I find the npcs ai nothing special to other games.

Force Persuade - I've alays found it od, and wrong that one won't "magically" control someone's mind. It puts me off just like good 'ol brain wahsing does. My Dark Jedi will use it; though.

Dueling Quest: Good point about it being for the greater good. I thought of that myself; but came to a conclsuion, that my character wouldn't do that.

Space Shooting: Meh. I HATE THIS! Mind you, it's not so bad now, sicne I find it much easier now. Still don't care for it, though.

Bugs: This is my own fault. I was an idiot. I had just gotten my new computer last week before KOTOR came out. For some stupid reason, I had thought I had upgraded my drivers. Man, I was wrong. A friendly remidner by BIO in their QA forum; and all is well. So, for teh record, I ahve EXACTLY one bug in this game sicne one of them was my own inepitude. Could ahve saved me a lot of grief, and others' from my whining.

Length: Yeah, if I didn't have to play the last part of it; it would ahve taken a little longer sicne with reloading you can shave time off the clock by hurring past the cutscenes.

Know what, looks to be mine too. Only two sports games can match it for fun; but no comparision there since it's completely different genre, after all.

Enjoy.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

I don't mean to tell you I said so.... but didn't I say so? The game rocks.

 

[Volourn]

Even you can be right once, and awhile.

 

[kumquatq3]

Exitium:

Silly goose - don't you ever think of the Force? I spent absolutely nothing on Persuade, knowing very well (And reading the manual) that Force Persuade would come into play sooner or later - and it does.

Force persuade can not be used to replace persuade in every situation. In many it can, but not all.

EDIT: Plus, using force persuade often gives you a dark side point. So it doesn't help light siders taht much.

:OSSIBLE MAJOR SPOILERS:: look away

I know you can't use force persuade to get Bastila back to the light side. Tho, I think you have a option to use persuade, if its high enough.


Other than that I completely agree with you Exitium. There is one thing I don't think anyone mentioned: The very crappy endings (and lack of them).

:ORE POSSIBLE MAJOR SPOILERS:::

The lightside ending was a joke. It didn't address what happened to anyone (which is nice in a RPG where your NPCs are featured more). It also didn't address the "love story" if you were in one. I just thought the ending (which is obviously supposed to be canon) was boring, short and very anti-climatic. It left a bad taste in my mouth after such a great game.

The darkside ending was a better, but by no means great IMO.

Overall this game was my favorite game of the year as well. Its flaws were minor, and I can't wait for a sequel. Tho, I heard a rumor that the next KOTOR wouldn't be a direct sequel, and it would be set many years in the future. Anyone got anything on that? I hope there is some link between the two, as I hate it when games get all FF on me. I rather have the story of some of these charecters continued. O, and IGN reported not to long ago that it might be out late 2004/early 2005. Not that I trust IGN, but has anyone else heard anything?

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Now look at what you've done you made me feel curious about a Bioware game! Me is confuzzled!!

Seriously though, apparently everyone has at least something good to say; in fact, people seem to have more than one good thing to say. Could this be the beginning of a new, revamped relationship with Bioware and their future products? As its customary, Mystary!!!!.

Speaking of which, i assume Exitium's probably whipping up a review? :wink:

 

[kumquatq3]

Now look at what you've done you made me feel curious about a Bioware game! Me is confuzzled!!

Seriously though, apparently everyone has at least something good to say; in fact, people seem to have more than one good thing to say.

The games not perfect (what is), but its better than most RPGs I have laid my hands on in recent memory. Most importantly (IMO) is that I had alot of fun playing it, enough to warrent playing it again. Its not the longest game tho, expect about 30 hours of game play, depending on how fast you adjust. I beat it in 25 hours the first time. Tho there are some many quests you have to avoid if you want to be a true light or darkside charecter, so you almost have to play it twice. If combat is your problem with the game, don't worry about it. I love TB, but the combat in KOTOR never got old for me, as it does in many TB and RT games. Its just a good game, and I am by no means a Bio groupie. I'm a FO groupie.

 

[Volourn]

I'm bias; but I don't care. This is my third favorite crpg of all time. Period.

 

[kumquatq3]

I'm bias; but I don't care. This is my third favorite crpg of all time. Period.

Its up there for me too. Bottom line: Its just fun.

 

[HanoverF]

apparently everyone has at least something good to say

I've only just gotten off the 'So Now You're a Jedi' Planet and I have nothing good to say so far.

If theres a Hell they make the poor souls there play the Taris portion of this 'game' non-stop.

Bioware apperantly decided to take the worst Final Fantasy FanFic they could find, and use it for the first area in their Star Wars game.

Taris is just wretched, it gets better after that, but thats like saying if you eat dog shit, eventually the taste goes away...

 

[Sol Invictus]

Taris is supposed to be a shithole. It's a utopia on the upside and a dystopia down beneath. It's an argument for communism and a good example of capitalism taken a little too far.

 

[Amerestatistic]

Now look at what you've done you made me feel curious about a Bioware game! Me is confuzzled!!

The game is pretty good, but when I was playing it I certainly didn't think it was the kind of game that would win you guys over. But it looks like some of you are taking to it...

However, you guys can't start liking Bioware as the anti-Bioware sentiment is part of what makes this site/forum more interesting than others. You can enjoy KotOR but let's not go nuts...

 

[Walks with the Snails]

Bah, and here I was happy to just let it pass by. Guess I'll have to grab it when it hits $20 or so.

 

[kumquatq3]

However, you guys can't start liking Bioware as the anti-Bioware sentiment is part of what makes this site/forum more interesting than others. You can enjoy KotOR but let's not go nuts...

Is that kinda like how you can like Brad Pitt movies (seven, Fight club) ,but can't like Pitt as an actor? Some unwritten rule or sorts :wink:

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

I can't wait to see Troy. That movie looks friggin' awesome. The trailer for it sent chills up my spine seeing it on the big screen. Long list of well known actors are in that movie.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Speaking of which, i assume Exitium's probably whipping up a review? :wink:

Nope, not him. Me.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm bias; but I don't care. This is my third favorite crpg of all time. Period.

Why? Feel free to include some examples, I'm almost done so don't worry about spoiling. It's not bad, imo, it's definitely a step in the right direction, but hardly one of top 3

Some spoilers!

Why can't I steal, buy, kill and take the robot on Taris? Why can't I find another way into the Sith base? Why can't I offer the Sith to clean up the lower city and eliminate both gangs? Why can't I offer the Sith to destroy the Republic kolto installation? As you can see I'm not trying to invent something new, but use the existing "to do list" for more rp possibilities.

 

[Volourn]

Examples of what. I'm trying to convince anyone. As for giving full reasons why, that'll have to wait until I'm completely finish the game once. It will probably be the first crpg that I've played to the end more than once in a good two years. WOWSERS!!!

 

[Volourn]

And, oh, to answer your questions since they are all good ones:


1. You rare supposedly able to threaten her into giving the robot for free. I never tried it since I was being good; but suppsoedly you can. Hmmm..

2. Because there's only one entrance?

3. The Sith are trying to track down any Republican soliders they find; but they ae too dumb to recognize Carth, the old war hero?

4. Yeah, it would be nice to ahve that option for the kolto installation n- espicially sicne you already have the option tod estroy it.


Those are the answers you seek. Or probably not.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You rare supposedly able to threaten her into giving the robot for free. I never tried it since I was being good; but suppsoedly you can. Hmmm..

You can, but only after Canderous tells you to get it. However, she mentions the robot way before that, and you are unable to threaten, buy, steal at that point. Linearitry sucks.

2. Because there's only one entrance?

There is only one entrance indeed, my unusually observant friend, but does that mean that there should be only one way in? What about the Sith chick that invites you to the party? After the conversation I expected that I would be able to make friends with the Sith, help them out, and manipulate them into helping me. Oh well...

3. The Sith are trying to track down any Republican soliders they find; but they ae too dumb to recognize Carth, the old war hero?

Does he have to go with me everywhere? The assassin club requires you to talk to the guy only when you are alone, for example. Besides, I don't think Garth would want to be around when you are dealing with the Sith.

As for giving full reasons why, that'll have to wait until I'm completely finish the game once

Take your time, I'll wait.

 

[Volourn]

1. Actually, IIRC, she mentions another robot; but if you get it, it explodes when yu leave the store. :twisted:

2. If anything, once her superiors find out she's been bedding; they'll probably punish her. But, yeah, it would have been nice, to charm your way in instead of being *forced* to use the robot (since the robot basically add nothing to the game other than bee-beep).

3. No, he doesn't have to, of course; but since your mission is to find Bastila (albeit admittedly i=t be ncie if you *didn't* have to find her; but oh well); you will invariably ask about her drawing attention to the fact that you are not exactly on the Sith's side.

4. Always.


That said, I could probably look at every quest/situation in the game and suggest another 1, or 2 ways at least that could have been added to give the player more ways to deal with the situation. Then again, I *could* do the same for the FO series. And, no, I'm not saying KOTOR is as free form as FO as it is obviously more restrictive; but then again, it has qualities that it destroys FO with. Still, as for crpgs go; there is different more freedom than most.