KOEI games, how are they these days?

[JarlFrank]

Pretty much all the games since 6 seem to have had a Windows version, according to MobyGames and the KOEI forums. XI is just the first to have come out for the PC in English since RotK 5.

This. There were PC versions for all of them, but they never were translated into any European language, only Asian stuff. With funny letters. I wonder if there are any fan translations for some of the previous games' PC versions.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

There are translations for Rot3K11 for when they thought it wasn't going to be in English.

http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77587

I will have to scout around for the other games.

 

[dagorkan]

Notes:

-Apparently no auto-save, very annoying when the game crashes
-The isometric/3D map as usual is a huge frustration. Why do modern strategy games insist on them? I remember RotK5 and Genghis Khan, where all the territories (not the same number but maybe half) was on the same Risk-style map and you moved armies from province to province. With the new system you spend most of your energy moving units, or just scrolling or clicking on the "radar" map, because one screen (keeping the information unit/city infos visible) usually only holds one province. You can also click on cities/officers on a menu which will jump to them but I am no good at remembering Chinese names.
-Why can't you build fortifications/dams/water projects any more?
-Where did the population statistic for cities go?

 

[mondblut]

P.T.O. Pacific theatre of operations obviously. This one is actually pretty good and spawned at least one or two sequels. I remember my first game as the Japanese. I got my war plan accepted and I was smashing the Allies left and right. Then I ran out of oil. I had been going after military bases to extend my reach rather than securing resources.
Odd, this one was console only.

PTO 2 was released for Windows around the same time as RTK4. Normally I don't care about WW2 strategies, but it was really, really good.

There was also a Revolutionary War game that didn't do much for me. Title eludes me at the moment. Liberty or Death! is the title.

As well as very similar Napoleonic game, L'Empereur (sp?)

 

[obediah]

Pretty much all the games since 6 seem to have had a Windows version, according to MobyGames and the KOEI forums. XI is just the first to have come out for the PC in English since RotK 5.

RotK 7, 8 and 10 are supposed to be "RPG-style". You start as an individual officer and improve your stats and can join difference factions, progressing through the ranks. Any of you tried them?

8 seems to be the best reviewed english version I can find. Going for $15 + shipping on the ps2, so I'll pick it up. Expect a report when i get to it in 3-60 months.

 

[LCJr.]

I dug out my gamepad and loaded up ZSNES and PTO last night. Took awhile to remember how things worked but I think I've got the hang of it now.

I've got PTO2 but haven't tried it yet. Checked the HOTU review and the console version is supposed to be better than the PC port.

 

[Trash]

Mwoah, tried it because of this thread and some fond memories of previous Koei games. Must say that it seems to be one of those easy to learn, hard to master games.

Seems to be though, because it's allready boring me to death. It feels incredibly shallow and simple compared to some of the older Koei titles and just doesn't manage to interest me at all. The strategy part seems rather simplistic with only the cities and armies to manage (what happened to all the cool stuff from earlier games where I could launch raids, build fortresses and the like?), managing the characters is dull because there are so many of them. What do I care about chinese beard n305 when there are 304 others to care about?

All in all it feels too shallow and "streamlined" compared to the older games. Either give me a deep strategy game or a simpler fun one, not this horrible match between the two.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Launch raids? You could build fortifications, but they didn't really do anything except take turns. There certainly wasn't anything exciting about them. I do miss some of the smaller things, but overall the game is actually more challenging than most of the older versions (except perhaps 1) I have played.

Which game had raiding in it? I am curious to know. It wasn't Rot3K, Bandit Kings, Ghengis Khan or Nobs Ambition. All of these except GK had fort building, but again this was just a turn waster with nothing interesting to it.

If it didn't have the awesome "start fire" command that is one of KOEI's hallmarks, I would have been pissed. The memories of the fires...I can still remember a few times where my out of control infernos routed armies 3 times as big as mine. Good times. Thankfully this new version has that as well.

 

[Trash]

Eye of balor or whatever that celtic Koei game was called. It had rpg elements, strategy and as far as I can remember also some city building aspects. Back in the day I really loved it, probably the best Koei game I ever played.

ROTK11 just feels so much shallower than these older games. I also dislike how this one does not allow me to play as an independent officer or as a subordinate. Perhaps it's just me though, but I don't really enjoy this one.

 

[LCJr.]

I think you need fire up DOSBox and try Balor again. Improving your city or fort was the same as any other task "You watch the cattle. You go improve the town. You go improve the fort. You go cut wood."

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Eye of balor or whatever that celtic Koei game was called. It had rpg elements, strategy and as far as I can remember also some city building aspects. Back in the day I really loved it, probably the best Koei game I ever played.

ROTK11 just feels so much shallower than these older games. I also dislike how this one does not allow me to play as an independent officer or as a subordinate. Perhaps it's just me though, but I don't really enjoy this one.

Eye is different to the KOEI strat games. It is almost like a hybrid RPG. The strat games have always been simplistic, while having lots of flavour, personnel management, oft times dynasty management and ruthless, bastard AI enemies that scream "Agggghhhhhhhhh" or similar things in speech bubbles when you choose the "behead" option.

I agree with the suggestion above; fire up dosbox and give the oldies a go. I would suggest RTK1 or 3, Nobunagas ambition 2, Genghis Khan 1 or 2. If you are masochistic, you could also try bandit kings of ancient china, but they will kill most pretenders who try it. Le Empereur is also good, but again, very difficult.

 

[dagorkan]

How do you have children in RTKXI? My ruler has been married four years and no births. Is it purely random, do you have to be in the same city as your wife or what? Doesn't matter too much since I started with a few heirs, but in the old games I built my empire almost exclusively on familial ties. Now that I have six cities I'm having to recruit random mercenaries to manage them.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

You can "mediate" anyone in your force to become oath brothers/sisters as well as any couple to marry (as it should say in your manual). From reading about the others, it is difficult to compare them all. It seems there is two variants of RotK gameplay over the years. In 7, 8 and 10 for example you play as a single officer and it includes RPG elements, in 9 & 11 you play as an entire force like the early versions.

The China games never really had the Personal Dynasty thing going. Genghis Khan series had it the most (US version of GK2 had most of this cut off; KOEI had been told by the US publishers that the US audience was not interested in this aspect and would find it distasteful, so only a watered down version is present). Nobs Ambition to a smaller extent.

 

[mondblut]

Genghis Khan series had it the most (US version of GK2 had most of this cut off; KOEI had been told by the US publishers that the US audience was not interested in this aspect and would find it distasteful, so only a watered down version is present). Nobs Ambition to a smaller extent.

Yeah, I remember the "spend time with family" button in GK2. That usually brought about new heirs 3 seasons later :D Maybe RTK11 has a similar button buried somewhere?

All these talks made me fire up Celtic Tales again. Even thought doing an LP of it, but got tired of making screenshots after 40 or so. And yea, it is really more an RPG/tactics game than a strategy, all resource-management, province-development and stuff is basically pointless, the game is solely about characters.

 

[Panthera]

I registered mostly for this thread.

I really enjoyed Nobunaga's Ambition for the PS2, and I'm glad they finally got around to porting it. From the recent RotTK games, X is the one I'm most fond of, but XI seems to be the most balanced and challenging.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

I have heard that there is some kind of patch for the Japanese and Chinese versions that make the AI better, add extra scenarios, etc. Is this true? Also, what do you mean Nobunagas Ambition is ported? do you mean it was ported in language? or Ported to the PC?

I still have most of the old games in my dosbox folder though they are a bit easy for me now. Playing them on and off for 20 years does that.

 

[LeStryfe79]

Rot3K 10 is awesome. The RPG features are fun and it has by far the best soundtrack in the series.

 

[Panthera]

Also, what do you mean Nobunagas Ambition is ported? do you mean it was ported in language? or Ported to the PC?\

Oops, I meant to say localized.

 

[Gold]

The last couple of RTKs had asian only expansions that allowed for having kids, new scenarios, etc.

 

[cutterjohn]

Yep, my first KOEI game was Bandit Kings of Ancient China for the mac. It came in this big heavy duty plastic box (IIRC sort of like the DVD style game boxes of today but about 2 or some times as deep) and a largish manual.

The graphics and UI were AWFUL(!!!! I CANNOT stress this enough), but the game itself was fun once you ifugred out WTF to do. (The manual, even though large and expansive was fairly uselss and pretty poorly wirtten.)

Anyways, they still make console game, as AFAIK there's Romance of the Three Kingdoms 474687373892432679 out, for various $ony consoles.

 

[sheek]

After having played RTK XI for about ten hours I've given up in disgust...

-Horrible interface
-No tactical depth
-Most of your energy is spent on extremely routine tasks - eg, rebuilding Order and Will after each Recruitment drive. Each time you increase your army you have to perform three separate actions, so about ten or so clicks. Just to maintain a decent military at war you'll have to do this for every city every two or three turn.

I remember the earlier ones I downloaded from Home of the Underdogs being much more fun. I think it's a combination of some things being taken out (ie, the battle maps), the addition of boring elements (the painfully simplistic economic 'buildings' system), and a more difficult to use interface.

 

[Tigranes]

How do you have children in RTKXI?

You don't. It's very much a historical simulator in the sense that if you were meant to have children, you will; if you weren't, you won't. (I believe even if, say, you kill Cao Cao very early, if his faction survives, about 30 years later, his fifteen-year old youngest son might pop up. :shock: )

Pretty much all the games since 6 seem to have had a Windows version, according to MobyGames and the KOEI forums. XI is just the first to have come out for the PC in English since RotK 5.

At one point I was bored, so tried everything between the beloved ROTK 4 and the latest (11). 5 is notable for introducing tactical formations to battles, which had a big role to play historically. It's also very different in the sense that you don't really have the empire-city relationship anymore; instead of having each city as a separate entity where you move people around and so forth, your empire in most respects is treated as a single one.

6 adds nothing new and they tried to get into the whole Windows menu style with movable menus, but it's all Win95 grey UI and everything is pretty crap.

7 is excellent, and began the whole RPG-ish "Play a Character" thing. You could start off as / become a nobody without a sovereign, work under one (usually as a general or as a strategist), or a sovereign in your own right. You had things like annual duel competitions that you might try and win as a general to gain cred, or poetry competitions as strategists (both of which are historically accurate: there is a famous account of Cao Cao holding an archery contest for his generals, whoe nded up brawling on the ground over the silk robe at stake.) You also visit people and send them letters to build up relationships, which can hook you up with sovereigns, get you nifty bonuses or help you bribe them.

8 (or was it 9?) tried an Age of Empires-like battle screen with walls and buildilngs as opposed to your standard "Nature & You" ROTK terrain. Good idea, but graphics was horrible, interface/control was nonexistent, battles made no sense and... bluh.

11 is actually the best in the series in a long time, bringing it back to a relatively challenging and well-balanced strategy that you saw in the first four iterations. You could complain about the massive role individuals have to play in the battles, but that's accurate to the setting and also pretty accurate historically as well. For most of this period, armies were very ill-equipped, mostly being masses of levied peasantry without uniform equipment or a lot of training, and a single powerful warrior, fully armoured and on horseback, could realistically wreak havoc and kill hundreds and emerge unscathed - and equally, his defeat could mean a massive panic for thousands.

I doubt that it was ever released in English, but there were also three "RPG" type games from KOEI based on the Romance of the Three Kingdoms. They were... well, they were basically Final Fantasy Tactics. Some story, a town is a vehicle for you to buy crap and move on the story, then set piece fights. There was one that followed the story of Liu Bei, one that followed Zhuge Liang, then one that followed Cao Cao (in that order, chronologically). Each notable individual would have a pre-determined class (such as "Strategist (really, Mage)", Footman, Knight, Bandit (mountain movement), Supply Wagon (healer), Drummer (morale), Catapult, etc), and would level up progressively. The first one, especially, was actually damn hard; without grinding you'd have to always look for the quickest way to win or get out of the battle. They get pretty damn stupid when they become fictional in the end (since historically, none of those three succeeded in reunifying China) - Cao Cao faking his death then coming back, and stuff like that. But in a light-hearted way it's quite fun, and the combat is comparable to FF Tactics or the Shining Force series.

I remember the earlier ones I downloaded from Home of the Underdogs being much more fun.

RTK4 and 2 are the pinnacles of the series.

 

[Jason]

then one that followed Cao Cao

Just started playing the fan translation of Legend of Cao Cao recently. Kind of lightweight, but I was surprised when I actually lost the first non-tutorial battle. Fun little game.

 

[Tigranes]

Ah, that's exactly it. That one is actually the easiest one, because it has level scaling. In the first one (Liu Bei), you were outclassed within 5-6 battles (out of 50+) if you didn't take the time to level up; after them, this one is a cakewalk. It is still possible to get your ass handed to you until you get used to it, though.

It also has the least retarded history-twisting, for obvious reasons. And some nice sea battles later.

 

[Andhaira]

Balor of the Evil Eye is one of the best startegy games ever made!