[King of Dragon Pass] This game actively punishes you for being successful.

[Nutria]

Pretty sure back when I was playing the pirated version in the 2000s, the only way to save my game was to look up the file where it stores the current state of the game and copy it. The one big flaw that KoDP has in my opinion is that you go into heroquests with virtually no idea how difficult they're going to be, so savescumming is mandatory. I still have bad memories of alt-tabbing to explorer to copy those files.

 

[mondblut]

Sooo i decided to replay the game a bit,turned out there is some updates that look more like decline. Now there is no save option and the ui feels super weird,remember that there was building things option. Am i from another dimension or is there some shitty changes?

You are probably playing a port of iphone version, I've heard it has removed the village screen.

 

[mondblut]

Pretty sure back when I was playing the pirated version in the 2000s, the only way to save my game was to look up the file where it stores the current state of the game and copy it.

I too have played the pirated version in the 2000s, and savescummed just fine.

Well, other than the game keeping its biggest data files on cdrom and painfully spinning it up on every reload until I ended up copying them to hdd root and giving the volume the same name the cd had.

 

[fantadomat]

Sooo i decided to replay the game a bit,turned out there is some updates that look more like decline. Now there is no save option and the ui feels super weird,remember that there was building things option. Am i from another dimension or is there some shitty changes?

You are probably playing a port of iphone version, I've heard it has removed the village screen.

I just downloaded it from gog,truly disgusting.


Just saw that there is original release in the extras,downloading it.

 

[Nutria]

I just downloaded it from gog,truly disgusting

What's disgusting is anyone who was too young to pirate this when it was only available on physical CDs in fucking New Zealand or wherever and didn't grow up and become an adult and pay for it.

 

[Silva]

As much as I like the old village UI, the truth is the game is much better balanced now and the absence of savescumming actually do the game good.

TL;DR: Git gud.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Yeah, but they also boosted the success rates in the iOS version as a tradeoff for removing the ability to save-scum so six of one, half a dozen of the other. The removal of the tula screen is inarguably a decline.

 

[Silva]

How is progress on the Darkness sequel going? Any news? (Edit: Lights Going Out)

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

The game is supposedly fully written aside from a final polish pass that might add a few scenes, and David estimates little work will have to be done on coding since the framework already exists. Art is the big bottleneck now and I believe it’s all done by contractors so there aren’t firm timetables on when it will be up to spec. The hope is for the game to be out in 2022 though.

 

[Üstad]

Which site has the most reliable and easy to read guide. I just started the game, kind of overwhelmed despite it seemed like a simple CYOA game.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Which site has the most reliable and easy to read guide. I just started the game, kind of overwhelmed despite it seemed like a simple CYOA game.

https://kingofdragonpass.fandom.com/wiki/Beginner's_Guide

But be warned that meta-knowledge of systems/events will totally remove any difficulty.

 

[Üstad]

Which site has the most reliable and easy to read guide. I just started the game, kind of overwhelmed despite it seemed like a simple CYOA game.

https://kingofdragonpass.fandom.com/wiki/Beginner's_Guide

But be warned that meta-knowledge of systems/events will totally remove any difficulty.

I've read that still have no idea what am I suppose to do in the game. I know getting goods and cows is important but no idea what to do with them neither have any idea what's the best way to get those.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Which site has the most reliable and easy to read guide. I just started the game, kind of overwhelmed despite it seemed like a simple CYOA game.

https://kingofdragonpass.fandom.com/wiki/Beginner's_Guide

But be warned that meta-knowledge of systems/events will totally remove any difficulty.

I've read that still have no idea what am I suppose to do in the game. I know getting goods and cows is important but no idea what to do with them neither have any idea what's the best way to get those.

Cattle raids are the safest way to get cows. Send a small party (4-5 thanes) with a Leader who is Excellent or above in Leadership and preferably Combat. Goods are acquired through events, full-raids, and trading. Also make sure you explore your tula over and over at the beginning of the game. It will help a lot with the success rate of raids.

 

[Average Manatee]

There is a decent amount of strategy when played on hard and going for a long game. Granted in the end if you memorize every event, or go read the game wiki, you'll eventually become unstoppable. Early game can still be hard, RNG can fuck you especially with feuding clans just brutalizing the hell out of you, but if you get some good rolls on an important heroquest or item you can pull way ahead of the difficulty curve.

You CAN avoid clan splitting indefinitely. The only thing that forces you to split is unhappiness. There is a constant happiness drop while you are too big you but can bribe your way back into relative happiness faster than the clan split event can occur. I'm not 100% sure but I think anything but the lowest level of happiness is safe from forced clan split. You'll never be able to conquer all the other clans since they'll just run further away from your ever expanding borders though. No benefit to conquering the whole game map. A lot of the scripted "you die" wars and events don't care if you have 10x the normal population and every blessing/artifact in the game, though some actually do acknowledge it and can be beaten or at least survived.

 

[Axioms]

KoDP is an archetypical "proto-genre" game. It is relatively unique at the time, may have some indie visual charm, and has plenty of room for improvement in every major system/aspect of the game.

Six Ages unfortunately didn't realize the potential. I would say it is equally as good as KoDP with some slightly different focuses, but decades on from the original release "just as good" or "sidegrade" doesn't cut it.

 

[Strig]

Yeah, 1/10, overrated...

Well damn. I remember this fucking abomination. I didn't know anything about KODP at the time and still thought the reviewer was retarded. The whole argument boils down to "how can you have a text game in the CURRENT YEAR, CURRENT YEAR I TELL YOU!". There was a reason people bought CD-Action for the CDs and other magazines for the actual reviews. CD-A was filled to the brim with similar "hot takes" and sadly it's the last mag from that era still standing today, while it was one of the few that really deserved an axe to the neck.

 

[Harpsichord]

It's almost like the characters live in a world where they are forced to perpetually reenact some primordial cosmic event that doesn't satisfy anyone or be completely annihilated.

 

[Üstad]

Which site has the most reliable and easy to read guide. I just started the game, kind of overwhelmed despite it seemed like a simple CYOA game.

https://kingofdragonpass.fandom.com/wiki/Beginner's_Guide

But be warned that meta-knowledge of systems/events will totally remove any difficulty.

I've read that still have no idea what am I suppose to do in the game. I know getting goods and cows is important but no idea what to do with them neither have any idea what's the best way to get those.

Cattle raids are the safest way to get cows. Send a small party (4-5 thanes) with a Leader who is Excellent or above in Leadership and preferably Combat. Goods are acquired through events, full-raids, and trading. Also make sure you explore your tula over and over at the beginning of the game. It will help a lot with the success rate of raids.

Got it, does it count as war though, my nobles keep bitching about not waging wars, I play as balanced. But what about the population and borders, when do I get overpopulated? What's the benefit of taking lands? What's the shrine limit and can it be bypassed? Also still don't understand the logic behind trade routes.

 

[Average Manatee]

There's really not much reason to ever take lands unless you are trying to amass an unintended amount of population, or you picked one of the two lower starting land sizes in clan generation. For the most part if you can produce surplus food you have enough lands. Clans tend to split around 1200-1400 population I believe.

The amount of shrines you can have is limited by population, which is one of the benefits to avoiding clan splitting and having a huge amount of population (also you need to feed the shrine its sacrifice which is hard with lots of them). Not sure on the exact ratio of shrines to population, and I think larger shrines require more population "upkeep". Though the largest shrine gives a point of magic every year IIRC.

Trade is one of the most important things to get ahead in the game since goods are like money and the easiest to produce and trade/sacrifice for things you really want (trading cows away is generally a bad idea most of the time). I'm not sure on exact numbers but I think each level of issaries shrine allows you to sustain an extra trade route and allocating trade magic every year also helps somehow.

 

[thesecret1]

I intended to win by genociding every single other tribe in the game, but it turns out the tribes are immortal and will just migrate further away if you bully them too much You HAVE to play nice with the other losers to win, which kind of put me off from the game

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Got it, does it count as war though, my nobles keep bitching about not waging wars, I play as balanced. But what about the population and borders, when do I get overpopulated? What's the benefit of taking lands? What's the shrine limit and can it be bypassed? Also still don't understand the logic behind trade routes.

You don't want to be feuding with every single other clan, but generally having 2 or 3 antagonized is going to be fine (the color of the clan name on the map shows you their relationship with you). It's generally a good idea to avoid antagonizing the non-human denizens you encounter though.

Over-population isn't really a concern until mid-game. Taking lands allows you to slightly increase your population threshold and also gives you more space for pastures/hunting/crops, but makes it more likely other clans will target you and succeed on cattle raids.

Shrine limit I don't recall off-hand, but generally the upkeep cost on them is going to soft-cap you before you hit the actual hard-limit. It's pretty generous though; you have enough room to get upgraded shrines to your major deities as well as supporting shrines for any gameplay area you're struggling in. For your first playthrough I strongly recommend getting a shrine to Vinga ASAP.

Trade routes are basically automated once established. They will increase your goods earned, improve your relations with other clans, and there are certain treasures and events that can only be obtained through them.

 

[Average Manatee]

You don't want to be feuding with every single other clan, but generally having 2 or 3 antagonized is going to be fine (the color of the clan name on the map shows you their relationship with you). It's generally a good idea to avoid antagonizing the non-human denizens you encounter though.

I'd really disagree with that, at least on hard difficulty. Clans can be pretty merciless about raiding you and unless you have tons of treasures and blessings combat is very random. Try to end all feuds ASAP, if you want to raid constantly (there's really not much reason to, if you want cows sell food or goods) then just keep one feud going. Though if you really beat a tribe up they will sometimes approach you and beg for mercy with a gift of cows, which you can then convert into a yearly tribute of cows.

Shrine limit I don't recall off-hand, but generally the upkeep cost on them is going to soft-cap you before you hit the actual hard-limit. It's pretty generous though; you have enough room to get upgraded shrines to your major deities as well as supporting shrines for any gameplay area you're struggling in. For your first playthrough I strongly recommend getting a shrine to Vinga ASAP.

Trade routes are basically automated once established. They will increase your goods earned, improve your relations with other clans, and there are certain treasures and events that can only be obtained through them.

With seasonal trade routes and a max level issaries shrine you can get like 200 goods a year pretty easily (more after becoming a tribe, which lets you get more trade routes and bumps you up to monthly trade). It should be pretty easy to sustain all your shrines and have tons of goods for trading eventually (send traders to buy treasures from other clans, lots of great stuff, costs like 50 goods apiece though the more treasures you have the higher the price tends to get).

Also there are some artifacts that make it very cheap to maintain a great temple to certain gods. One is Humakt's Helm obtainable from the Humakt hero quest, another is the silver tongue for issaries obtainable through trade. Issaries shrine is as mentioned one of the best to max out and Humakt is probably 2nd best since it really tilts battles your way.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I’m assuming he’s not playing on hard since this is his first time, but yeah combat is much riskier on hard due to the way the difficulties weight the success/failure bonuses and maluses.

Hard is pretty implicitly intended for people who have played the game a few times and have enough meta-game knowledge to offset the RNG disadvantage.

And agreed on shrines. Humakt is one of the stronger Gods in general, and his events have some of the best text in the game.

 

[Average Manatee]

Yeah you can definitely get really high pop still. Just be sure that the clan is happy and all. Chalana Arroy's heroquest is really good for raising clan mood. I also do Humakt and Orlanth's a few times early on to get their items which make war pretty successful. I did have to split twice but I haven't been asked to in a long, long time so it seems sustainable.

Getting raided and taking captives is pretty nice once you do have a lot of shrine and treasure buffs

 

[Üstad]

There's really not much reason to ever take lands unless you are trying to amass an unintended amount of population, or you picked one of the two lower starting land sizes in clan generation. For the most part if you can produce surplus food you have enough lands. Clans tend to split around 1200-1400 population I believe.

The amount of shrines you can have is limited by population, which is one of the benefits to avoiding clan splitting and having a huge amount of population (also you need to feed the shrine its sacrifice which is hard with lots of them). Not sure on the exact ratio of shrines to population, and I think larger shrines require more population "upkeep". Though the largest shrine gives a point of magic every year IIRC.

Trade is one of the most important things to get ahead in the game since goods are like money and the easiest to produce and trade/sacrifice for things you really want (trading cows away is generally a bad idea most of the time). I'm not sure on exact numbers but I think each level of issaries shrine allows you to sustain an extra trade route and allocating trade magic every year also helps somehow.

I get not enough worshippers text when I try to build shrine. Also how do I check how much land do I have so I can compare it to population?