Development Info Ken Levine talks about BioShock on TTLG + video

[Twinfalls]

(maybe you've been doing this for ages, but I'd not noticed and you were trusted)

Let that be a lesson to you - Trust NOBODY in business and on bitter RPG-purist web boards.

(sorry about that though - it was meant for Vasquez, as I interpreted his comment to be 'bladerunner is crap, now summarise in 20 words why its not, bitch"). You didnt want to keep that job anyway.

 

[Hazelnut]

(maybe you've been doing this for ages, but I'd not noticed and you were trusted)

Let that be a lesson to you - Trust NOBODY in business and on bitter RPG-purist web boards.

(sorry about that though - it was meant for Vasquez, as I interpreted his comment to be 'bladerunner is crap, now summarise in 20 words why its not, bitch"). You didnt want to keep that job anyway.

No I don't, but I bet my wife and kids want me to...

I was looking forward to reading something interesting about one of the best sci-fi films ever too...

 

[sheek]

I thought Bladerunner was boring as fuck... 'arty' sure, but still boring.

Seems all PKD books turn out that way in films. It's too psychological and whatever you try you can't represent all of that on the big screen.

 

[Data4]

What I didn't like was how easy the use of security station seemed to be. Surely some of the minigame challenges from SShcok will make it into this game? I do hope so. And what's with the security cameras being big as TV-studio cameras? Wasn't this supposed to be a modern age. Or is it just minor hand-holding: "Here, notice this CAMERA. Good."

It's retro tech. Kinda like a more modern version of steampunk. Rapture was built right after WW2, so it was pre-transistor. Think of that camera as being filled with vaccuum tubes and other period tech.

-D4

 

[Data4]

I thought Bladerunner was boring as fuck... 'arty' sure, but still boring.

Seems all PKD books turn out that way in films. It's too psychological and whatever you try you can't represent all of that on the big screen.

Which version of the movie did you see? Original release or director's cut? Personally, I liked the original better. Ford's noir style voiceovers gave it flavor, and kept you in the story. The director's cut was more... I dunno... distant? It just seemed like it wasn't all there, no pun intended.

-D4

 

[Twinfalls]

I was looking forward to reading something interesting about one of the best sci-fi films ever too...

I'll tell you one mildly interesting bit of trivia I do know from reading a book about the film a long while back. The set designers needed more 'stuff' in their cityscape, and used a model from an earlier movie as a building for some shots. It happened to be one of the models used in Star Wars - the Millenium Falcon.

It mainly crops up in the sequence near the start in which Deckard is flown in the police spinner towards headquarters.

They literally don't make pictures like they used to - I will always miss the use of real models in sci-fi movies. (Actually I will probably always miss real sci-fi movies, but that's another thing)

 

[denizsi]

I like the alternative ways of solving problems, even if mostly combat related as in the demo.

Apart from deactivating security from some security panels or simply destroying them, you could short-circuit them with water arrows in Thief. NOLF series had a special gadget you mount directly on cameras and another one you can shoot from a distance (that second one was lame though) so they supposedly monitored a prerecorded footage on the gadget through the lens (That NPCs didn't noticed it was kind of dumb though) and Deus Ex had you deactivating cameras through a wireless hacking device or undetectability by robots & cams through an augmentation. I think Metal Gear Solid 2 had something similar too, where you can dress like an enemy and go around undetected for a while, though I can not tell for sure, I haven't really played it.

Bioshock had the pheromone-like plasmid to trick others including cameras, in the video and seems like that's all.

As for why the cameras are those huge things they are: Since Rapture is supposed to be an alternate society that developed on itself from 40s and 50s, with most of the technology using analog circuitry (this was stated by Levine in video and in interviews), I think they suit the game fine.

 

[sheek]

Which version of the movie did you see? Original release or director's cut? Personally, I liked the original better. Ford's noir style voiceovers gave it flavor, and kept you in the story. The director's cut was more... I dunno... distant? It just seemed like it wasn't all there, no pun intended.

Director's cut only...

Is it only the voiceovers that are different or are there other changes that make it worth seeing again?

 

[Data4]

Which version of the movie did you see? Original release or director's cut? Personally, I liked the original better. Ford's noir style voiceovers gave it flavor, and kept you in the story. The director's cut was more... I dunno... distant? It just seemed like it wasn't all there, no pun intended.

Director's cut only...

Is it only the voiceovers that are different or are there other changes that make it worth seeing again?

It's been awhile. Twinfalls may know more perhaps? But, as best as I can recall, the voiceovers were the only thing cut, while a few minutes of additional footage was added. Seems like I remember a dream sequence involving a unicorn that wasn't in the original release, and I believe the ending was changed.

-D4

 

[sleepy]

As for why the cameras are those huge things they are: Since Rapture is supposed to be an alternate society that developed on itself from 40s and 50s, with most of the technology using analog circuitry (this was stated by Levine in video and in interviews), I think they suit the game fine.

Thanks Denizsi and also Data4 for the same info. My bad, wasn't paying enough attention. Makes sense and goes with the Big Daddys design. Now reading more info about the game.

 

[Twinfalls]

I think that's right. The ending was deleted, it was actually unused footage of the opening car-drive sequence from The Shining. The ending was put in after the studio wanted a 'happy ending', but the voice-over narration was Scott's own idea, and he decided years later it wasn't needed. The unicorn dream was I think the only footage added (restored), making the 'Deckard is a replicant' thing more concrete (bit pointless that, really).

I like the director's cut much, much better for what it's worth.

 

[Dreagon]

I have high hopes for this game, but some serious concerns as well. The devs have been very evasive when asked about the variety of enemies in the game, and considering that it appears they are going to use the same model and skin for each splicer/little sister/protecter, I fear things could get very repetitive very fast in that department. The fact that it is made for console first also tells me not to get my hopes to high on how challenging this may be on certain levels. I predict some serious handholding.
On the other hand the atmosphere looks fantastic.

 

[Hazelnut]

Which version of the movie did you see? Original release or director's cut? Personally, I liked the original better. Ford's noir style voiceovers gave it flavor, and kept you in the story. The director's cut was more... I dunno... distant? It just seemed like it wasn't all there, no pun intended.

Director's cut only...

Is it only the voiceovers that are different or are there other changes that make it worth seeing again?

The directors cut is great, but I'm not so sure it can be appreciated without watching the narrated version first. It's a bit like 2001: A Space Oddessey - where you can't appreciate the film until you've read the book. (well, when I was 14 I couldn't at least!) Try watching the narrated version, then if you enjoy it you might also want to watch the directors cut for the extra dream sequence and originally intended ending.

It's thinking-persons' sci-fi, rather than starwars-esque cowboys and indians in space though, and that may just not be your thing...

 

[sheek]

It's thinking-persons' sci-fi, rather than starwars-esque cowboys and indians in space though, and that may just not be your thing...

As long as there isn't too much thinking... since 'thinking' often means navel gazing masturbatory philosophizing. I don't like Philip K Dick for that same reason, I dislike Frank Herbert's 'Dune' and I thought the last 60% of Space Oddessey was unwatchable.

An example of a good sci-fi film for me is 'Outland'. There is some stuff to think about without going into the mind of the author to get at it.

 

[Bradylama]

use the same model and skin for each splicer/little sister/protecter

There are actually three known types of Protectors so far, and the same could apply to the Splicers and gatherers. The Little Sisters really don't do it for me, though. They're just ugly little bitches. No empathy for them at all.

 

[denizsi]

Seems all PKD books turn out that way in films.

What about games based PKD books? Anyone?

I've thought Blade Runner game was fantastic, being a game which could stand on its own without relying on the original story entirely and still retain everything about them.

Ubik, though somewhat unconnected with the book's story, it was a nice game set in the world described in the book. Even though controls were sometimes fucking annoying, I've liked the game.

These two are the only games I know based on PKD's works.

 

[Claw]

Well, I for one liked both the Bladerunner movie and the game.

I really want to watch it again now. Bye.

 

[Cycloptis]

Blade Runner, surely a fantastic epic. The movie is one of my favourites, the game is one of my favourites, and the book is following suit quite nicely.

It really makes you wonder just why nobody bothers to try a cyberpunk RPG in the same style (that excludes the System Shocks, Deus Ex, and BloodNet).

 

[Human Shield]

The little girls really shouldn't have talked at all, or used some code gibberish; the interactions and expressions were neat but the dialog was just crap (hopefully can be modded). They should have been kids with weird cancerous growths that process the stuff instead of just girls in pigtails and stupid little skirts that drink it. They should look alot more deranged and messed up and sound darker.

Starved for resources sounds great if they can pull it off, always liked underdog scavenging but with my constant quick-saving it usually fades (re-spawning monsters do add a lot of uncertainty thou).

The Splicers were alright, ceiling movement is cool but they should diversify the models and attacks more. Too many glowy abilities.

But I'll probably get it and enjoy it, should live up to SS2 in part.

 

[Castanova]

The fact that it's on the 360 scares me but not because I'm afraid of hand-holding. It scares me because, just like Deus Ex 2, developing for a console reduces how amibitous you can get with level size and variability in stuff like monsters and textures. I'm hoping the extra memory on the 360 versus the regular XBox will help with that, though.

 

[Twinfalls]

It really makes you wonder just why nobody bothers to try a cyberpunk RPG in the same style (that excludes the System Shocks, Deus Ex, and BloodNet).

I think this is a key problem I have had with the direction of Shock under Irrational.

System Shock 1 was cyberpunk. Shock 2 took it further into space-horror territory. Bioshock seems to want to up the horror ante even more, with unrealistic creatures used for movie-like effect ('little girls are teh creepy'). The 'splicer' woman crawling on the ceiling is Nightmare on Elm Street type imagery.

It frankly looks rather silly.

 

[Human Shield]

Yeah, Rendered Graphics hasn't gotten anywhere near the balls-out movie effects. You are not going to model and animate well enough to match actors with professional make-up and gore effects. That is why audio and clever gameplay design can make a huge difference, low-res monsters that are given enough personality and gameplay challendge go a lot further. Big Daddies sound and act pretty cool but the others seem flat. Even the bots in SS2 had neat little robot sounds, and the servant droids had cool dialog.

 

[Data4]

The little girls really shouldn't have talked at all, or used some code gibberish; the interactions and expressions were neat but the dialog was just crap (hopefully can be modded). They should have been kids with weird cancerous growths that process the stuff instead of just girls in pigtails and stupid little skirts that drink it. They should look alot more deranged and messed up and sound darker.

I don't know, I think the relative normality of the girls contrasts nicely with the grotesque nature of their role. Here comes little Sally with her little toy and... what's this? A dead body? Oh noes! Run Sally! Wait!... what is she doing? Oh my god! That's no toy! She's drawing blood out of the body... and... EWWW!! She drank it!

It just seems to work for me. <shrug>

-D4

 

[RadioGnome Invisible]

I'm hoping the extra memory on the 360 versus the regular XBox will help with that, though.

Don't worry, they'll put all that extra memory to good use - like hi-res textures and bump mapping.

 

[sheek]

Whoever came up with that obsessive Little Sister/Big Daddy, Adam crap must be a real fuckup. How did they get the money to make the game... when there's no money for TB RPGs?