Jagged Alliance 2 is overrated

[set]

I had a ten minute hurdle learning JA2's movement commands and how the combat worked (the LOS is kind of confusing at first since there's no real fog so you don't know if the town you start in is just abandoned or full with baddies) and how to further the story (the NPC interaction stuff isn't intuitive I think compared to modern games).

It's got basically enough 'odish design' to be completely foreign to the average consumer, especially the average IGNorant reviewer. Most people these days are used to playing non-games.

 

[Khor1255]

I picked it up really easily and at the time I bought it I hadn't played many video games at all. For some reason figuring how to make them run didn't occur to me right away.

 

[RK47]

By today's standards this game failed completely.
Where's the romance FFS?
No cutscenes (ALL IN GAME? SO LAME)
And lack of meaningful backstory to all the characters (I'm supposed to READ their Bio? SO LAME!)
Mass Effect 3 is better as a tactical shooter.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Laptop Guy/Gal does have stats and some side quests have even nice C&C, game is not hard* to learn at all. Also taking about modern standards hope its
Remove the -ards from Codex Premises!

*Outside :kwanzania:

 

[Percy]

Had half the cities before i stopped playing because of the tedious tactical battles. At the beginning it was fun, but then moving around becomes a chore because you're always getting attacked and meeting roaming enemies. There is also too much organizing of weapons, ammo, armor and other crap. And i only had one squad. Then you spend time healing injuries. Then another tactical battle which takes a long time because you're usually outnumbered. Then you're defending mines. Then i got blown by missiles because i ran to the capital to try and finish off that bitch so i can at least say that i've finished the game.

Yeah the characters are cute with all the talking and relationships, the game has a lot of charm and is very polished, but it became tedious. If you really really really love playing slow tactical turn based battles over and over again and micromanaging items and soldiers than i guess it's a good game.

Fuck you

 

[Surf Solar]

But there are cutscenes with Deidranna. technically you can 'romance' people in San Mona as well :D

 

[Khor1255]

By today's standards this game failed completely.
Where's the romance FFS?
No cutscenes (ALL IN GAME? SO LAME)
And lack of meaningful backstory to all the characters (I'm supposed to READ their Bio? SO LAME!)
Mass Effect 3 is better as a tactical shooter.

Are you trying to be retarded or is this what you actually believe?

Romance?

Wow.

 

[Mangoose]

By today's standards this game failed completely.
Where's the romance FFS?
No cutscenes (ALL IN GAME? SO LAME)
And lack of meaningful backstory to all the characters (I'm supposed to READ their Bio? SO LAME!)
Mass Effect 3 is better as a tactical shooter.

Are you trying to be retarded or is this what you actually believe?

Romance?

Wow.

Whoosh

 

[Khor1255]

OK, I just woke up. I should have seen the sarcasm dripping off that post. But with today's level of retardation you never know.

 

[Mangoose]

OK, I just woke up. I should have seen the sarcasm dripping off that post. But with today's level of retardation you never know.

Just poking fun. I know RK too well, unfortunately.

 

[SoupNazi]

OK, I just woke up. I should have seen the sarcasm dripping off that post. But with today's level of retardation you never know.

Yes your reply to RK demonstrated that level of retardation quite nicely

 

[Manjuice Nutella]

Ah its that retard, why did I even bother to reply

Poster of the Year is more like that

 

[SausageInYourFace]

I don't see what is so complicated about JA2's rules. Find cover, adjust your aim level, shoot. Is that so hard?

I would agree, but there is something really different in the way we - for the lack of a better word - old school gamers approach such games.

I am always fascinated when I watch my popamole friends play games. They are nice people and far from stupid but when it comes to games they seriously suffer from some form of ADD. I can't even blame them, they don't want to work for a game, they just want some entertainment and shut down for a few hours. But since they don't want to put any effort into understanding even the simplest of gameplay mechanics ("why can't my Vanguard use the Assault Rifle!? I am SO disappointed by this restriction!"; Bethesda does 'better' in this regard, by doing away with as many restrictions as possible. they have good reason to do that) even a game like Mass Effect can become too complex for them. They skip over every second dialogue and then complain that they don't know what to do (again: Quest compass anyone?) and don't understand whats going on. If something does not happen every other minute, the game gets boring to them. They just want to run around and shoot things and have fun and not think too much.

I recently coincidentally made one of my popamole friends play JA2 because I told him about the game and got him interested. He was unable to play it. Seriously. Every hour he would text me some shit complaint that simply came from the fact that he did neither read the manual nor put the smallest effort into understanding the interface (which is really good in JA2 and should be to a large degree self-explanatory. I only recently read the manual myself for the first time to see if I still missed things). He complained about sectors being taken back by the enemy (cause he didn't know about militias), he complained about his injured mercs getting increasingly worthless (cause he didn't know how to apply doctors/patients), he complained about mercs being annoying and disrespectful to him (cause they constantly died on him and he just let them rot in the dust).. the list goes on an on. Of course finer tactical stuff like stealth or night-ops or interrupts is completely lost on someone who even has problems hiring mercs in the first place ("where do I get other guys from, Anon?!") or does not know how to crouch or climb up buildings or even understand why he should do that.

They suffer from a severe lack of patience and simply are not prepared and willing (anymore) to put the slightest effort into understanding a game, thus they are overwhlemed with gameplay mechanics that to us seem uncomplicated. As a result, even a game like JA2 which seems to be easily accessible can become an insurmountable obstacle.

 

[SoupNazi]

To be perfectly honest, I also struggled with JA2 for a long while (I didn't read the manual), and if I played it at a time where there was no internet, I would have either 1) read the fucking manual 2) gave up and hated the game as well.

It's nicely explained in that video about Dark Souls II that a game can be "accessible" for new players but still complex and difficult, and JA2 simply is not all that accessible (it is reasonably so; you can get pretty far without understanding many of the mechanics), but you do need to be patient and accept trial and error OR read the fucking manual.

 

[adddeed]

I agree, although my complaint was not about understanding the mechanics. I read the manual and i knew how everything worked, it's not complicated. The game simply became repetitive and tiresome.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

The game simply became repetitive and tiresome.

Then again, we're talking turn-based strategy here, not [*Insert whichever your favourite and totally not repetitive game is*], it's not like doing the same shit over and over, and micromanaging are coming from nowhere.

 

[Zdzisiu]

I don't see what is so complicated about JA2's rules. Find cover, adjust your aim level, shoot. Is that so hard?

I would agree, but there is something really different in the way we - for the lack of a better word - old school gamers approach such games.

I am always fascinated when I watch my popamole friends play games. They are nice people and far from stupid but when it comes to games they seriously suffer from some form of ADD. I can't even blame them, they don't want to work for a game, they just want some entertainment and shut down for a few hours. But since they don't want to put any effort into understanding even the simplest of gameplay mechanics ("why can't my Vanguard use the Assault Rifle!? I am SO disappointed by this restriction!"; Bethesda does 'better' in this regard, by doing away with as many restrictions as possible. they have good reason to do that) even a game like Mass Effect can become too complex for them. They skip over every second dialogue and then complain that they don't know what to do (again: Quest compass anyone?) and don't understand whats going on. If something does not happen every other minute, the game gets boring to them. They just want to run around and shoot things and have fun and not think too much.

I recently coincidentally made one of my popamole friends play JA2 because I told him about the game and got him interested. He was unable to play it. Seriously. Every hour he would text me some shit complaint that simply came from the fact that he did neither read the manual nor put the smallest effort into understanding the interface (which is really good in JA2 and should be to a large degree self-explanatory. I only recently read the manual myself for the first time to see if I still missed things). He complained about sectors being taken back by the enemy (cause he didn't know about militias), he complained about his injured mercs getting increasingly worthless (cause he didn't know how to apply doctors/patients), he complained about mercs being annoying and disrespectful to him (cause they constantly died on him and he just let them rot in the dust).. the list goes on an on. Of course finer tactical stuff like stealth or night-ops or interrupts is completely lost on someone who even has problems hiring mercs in the first place ("where do I get other guys from, Anon?!") or does not know how to crouch or climb up buildings or even understand why he should do that.

They suffer from a severe lack of patience and simply are not prepared and willing (anymore) to put the slightest effort into understanding a game, thus they are overwhlemed with gameplay mechanics that to us seem uncomplicated. As a result, even a game like JA2 which seems to be easily accessible can become an insurmountable obstacle.

That always made me confused. Do those people not get any satisfaction from overcoming the challenges and learning things? I'm always happy when I can figure how to do something in a game, how to properly train militia, or how weapon attachements work. I remember playing the JA2 demo that had one sector above ground sector and one underground one and doing everything that I could try on such a small map. I learned that you can shot the barrels to make them explode, how to attach a bipod to a weapon and what that does, how to throw stuff and that when you stab somebody in the neck it does a shitload of damage. And trying to make the best use of the scarce resource the demo gave you was a load of fun for me. So one can imagine how happy I was when I finally gathered enough potato to buy the full version (Well, truth be told, I was meant to buy Might&Magic VII but it was out of stock so I ended up with JA2). I checked the manual while the game was being installed, and I dont remember learning anything revolutionary that I did not manage to figure out myself by just playing the demo. And I'm not the only one that learned the password to I.M.P by heart through all those years, right?

 

[adddeed]

The game simply became repetitive and tiresome.

Then again, we're talking turn-based strategy here, not [*Insert whichever your favourite and totally not repetitive game is*], it's not like doing the same shit over and over, and micromanaging are coming from nowhere.

True enough.

Maybe the game did not present me with any varied challenges. I'm currently playing Commandos 1. On paper it's more repetitive than Jagged Alliance since there is so little you can do compared to it. And yet i don't find it repetitive. You do the same shit over and over, but doesn't get tiresome. Maybe it's because each new level is a new challenge.

Jagged Alliance every battle and every town is about clearing it of enemies, rinse and repeat on slightly different layouts.

 

[NotAGolfer]

Only way I can see JA2 being repetitive is when you savescum through it. Then you don't need to plan battles carefully and can just rush through them (and reload if one of your mercs gets severely injured). If you don't do that then this game is a masterpiece, where all the components (tactical battles, finding ways to scrape up money, hiring mercs, putting together teams that work, assigning tasks, exploring the island and interacting with NPCs, equipment management, etc) work together flawlessly in building something marvelous and extremely addictive.

And if you start to find battles boring just hire different mercs with more entertaining skills (knife throwing, heavy artillery, whatever approach to battles you didn't try before, it all works if used correctly). For me it's the same as with Fallout though, killing is fun. I just love hearing that sound when enemies drop to the ground unconsciously, only topped by the groan they make when they finally kick the bucket.

 

[adddeed]

I actually savescummed. If i got injured or died, reload. Maybe it's the wrong way to play this kind of game?

 

[Abelian]

I actually savescummed. If i got injured or died, reload. Maybe it's the wrong way to play this kind of games.

Fixed.
I mean it as a joke, because I used to save-scum a lot, but I found that it made me tire of games more easily. For example, playing ironman mode in Crusader Kings 2 has made it much more enjoyable for me.

 

[adddeed]

Well not saving in a game like Commandos is pointless since it's a trial and error puzzle game, but i see your point.

I'll give it another shot iron man.

 

[set]

To be fair, I do agree with the criticism that JA2 battles wear on after a while. They can be very slow-paced if you're playing carefully, if you're running around with rambo-squads you're more than likely going to lose some team members or quickly run out of medical supplies.

Tactics Ogre, another good tactics game, has similar issues with pacing... midgame+ single random battles can take like an hour to resolve. It can get frustrating to feel like you're grinding when you just want to start progressing in some way.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

I remember playing the JA2 demo that had one sector above ground sector and one underground one and doing everything that I could try on such a small map. I learned that you can shot the barrels to make them explode, how to attach a bipod to a weapon and what that does, how to throw stuff and that when you stab somebody in the neck it does a shitload of damage. And trying to make the best use of the scarce resource the demo gave you was a load of fun for me. (...) I checked the manual while the game was being installed, and I dont remember learning anything revolutionary that I did not manage to figure out myself by just playing the demo.

Man, that demo is legendary, we played it over and over back in the day. And it was so motivating to get your ass kicked the first few times and increasingly get better every time by figuring out more stuff about the game. It worked better as any tutorial, I too figured most of the stuff out by just doing that demo over and over again.

 

[Surf Solar]

I too played the shit out of the demo back then and my 11 year old mind didn't have any problem understanding the mechanics and stuff. FFS it's really not that hard to figure out.