From Software It's another Demon's Souls thread god damnit

[Overweight Manatee]

Being a black phantom is pretty fun, though I wish there was more incentive to PvP.

What's the incentive to play multiplayer in any game? It's all about fun, mang. Nothing like invading someone's world, chasing them down, finding out you're outnumbered 3 to 1, and ultimately coming out on top by using the environment against them (pushing them off cliffs, luring them into a mob).

I meant incentive for the person being invaded to actually stay. At least when I played (and I have a habit of specifically invading in areas like 3-2/4-1/5-2, so that may bias my results ), I would search for about a minute, then as soon as I get into the level either the player I'm invading suicides or disconnects because they don't want to fight.

Sadly, even if you do find someone willing to fight there is a very small chance of the fight actually being interesting. About 75% of the people you invade just plain suck (which can lead to a half interesting fight if its 3v1, but rarely is there more than 1 player), and the rest of the time you are likely to end up fighting against twinked characters with +10 weapons and high level spells at SL 10 and/or exploiters.

 

[Antagonist]

You is pretty much forced to play offline though if you want to get the stuff from pure white and pure black worlds as the game resets the world tendency to the server median after each time loading a savegame. Pretty retarded if you ask me because playing online is half the fun of the game. But if you need Colorless Demon Souls for upgrading your weapons or some of the weapons which are only available in pure world tendencies then it's recommended that you at least play the first time around offline and do world tendency voodoo by never playing in body form if your're going for pure white or just simply suicide until you reach pure black.

Demon's Souls is one of the games I especially bought the PS3 for. I don't get the claims about buyer's remorse though, the exclusives on the PS3 are far more appealing to me than anything offered on the 360 (shame though about the inferior versions of Bayonetta and NG2). I'd rather buy a Wii for the Mario and Zelda games (and for access to the Wii store with its huge catalog of classic games) than the 360 if I had the time and inclination.

 

[anus_pounder]

I forgot. Do you need to be human in order to get invaded or can you invaded in soul form as well?

 

[Overweight Manatee]

You is pretty much forced to play offline though if you want to get the stuff from pure white and pure black worlds as the game resets the world tendency to the server median after each time loading a savegame. Pretty retarded if you ask me because playing online is half the fun of the game. But if you need Colorless Demon Souls for upgrading your weapons or some of the weapons which are only available in pure world tendencies then it's recommended that you at least play the first time around offline and do world tendency voodoo by never playing in body form if your're going for pure white or just simply suicide until you reach pure black.

Actually, you can avoid that. IIRC the ONLY time your tendency is reset after loading is if you quit the game in the Nexus. If you quit the game inside one of the worlds it will remain just fine. I believe there is another way your tendency gets messed up, getting set to another player's when some certain things happen and you are in their world, but I can't remember specifics. Its not that big of a deal though.

If you get to pure black, which you can do by dieing over and over in human form (this is when I go on invading sprees, since you need to get your body back and screw helping people ), the demon that drops the Colorless demon souls and a unique black phantom NPC are spawned. Killing both of them raises your tendency directly to pure white, though you HAVE to kill them both in the same run (before going back to Nexus which will update the tendency). In this way you can get to pure white and/or black for every game.

I forgot. Do you need to be human in order to get invaded or can you invaded in soul form as well?

Need to be human to get invaded, and only other players in soul form can come (either to fight with you or against you).

 

[Antagonist]

Killing both of them raises your tendency directly to pure white

Nope, killing both of them will take you one level below pure white (i.e. white). I usually did it the other way around (in offline mode): Go for pure white first (which is piss easy as long as you avoid dying in body form), suicide until you reach pure black, do the pure black stuff (farming crystal geckos, black phantom NPCs and colorless demon souls) which should take you back to white, Bonus point: The subsequents worlds will be a little bit easier when playing on pure white even if you take a hit on earned souls (which is unimportant anyway since farming souls during normal gameplay pales in comparison to a single Storm King run with Ring of Averice + Soul Thirst).

 

[Silellak]

Maybe I'm alone here, but I found the whole "world/character tendency" stuff to be a bit much. I liked the game, don't get me wrong, but I never really got into the whole tendency thing. It just seemed like an another unnecessary layer of complexity that existed solely for players to post about on the Internet and learn to exploit, rather than something that legitimately added to the game.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Nope, killing both of them will take you one level below pure white (i.e. white). I usually did it the other way around (in offline mode): Go for pure white first (which is piss easy as long as you avoid dying in body form), suicide until you reach pure black, do the pure black stuff (farming crystal geckos, black phantom NPCs and colorless demon souls) which should take you back to white, Bonus point: The subsequents worlds will be a little bit easier when playing on pure white even if you take a hit on earned souls (which is unimportant anyway since farming souls during normal gameplay pales in comparison to a single Storm King run with Ring of Averice + Soul Thirst).

I'm quite certain killing both will certainly take you to pure white, unless there is something else I did in the meantime other then killing bosses or there is something you are doing to lower your tendency back towards black. Its how I got all the pure white items (while online as well). Playing the entire game on white is for chumps anyway

Maybe I'm alone here, but I found the whole "world/character tendency" stuff to be a bit much. I liked the game, don't get me wrong, but I never really got into the whole tendency thing. It just seemed like an another unnecessary layer of complexity that existed solely for players to post about on the Internet and learn to exploit, rather than something that legitimately added to the game.

Yeah, I agree its a bit silly. Reactive worlds in general are cool though, I just wish the system was more intuitive and less meta-gamey.

 

[Antagonist]

I'm quite certain killing both will certainly take you to pure white, unless there is something else I did in the meantime other then killing bosses or there is something you are doing to lower your tendency back towards black.

Again: Nope, I tested it through several worlds. Note that the primeval demons will already spawn on black. So either you didn't go all the way to pure black or you indeed killed a boss or invading black phantom additionally.

 

[Silellak]

Yeah, I agree its a bit silly. Reactive worlds in general are cool though, I just wish the system was more intuitive and less meta-gamey.

Agreed. The concept is very cool, it's just the implementation I have issues with.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

I'm quite certain killing both will certainly take you to pure white, unless there is something else I did in the meantime other then killing bosses or there is something you are doing to lower your tendency back towards black.

Again: Nope, I tested it through several worlds. Note that the primeval demons will already spawn on black. So either you didn't go all the way to pure black or you indeed killed a boss or invading black phantom additionally.

I've been invaded a grand total of about 2 times (both before I was doing anything with WT), and I had all bosses killed before going for pure white. AFAIK the black phantom NPC that can be killed to raise WT only spawns at pure black, so I don't see how you aren't getting to pure white killing both the black phantom and the primeval demon. The only thing I can imagine is that when you had 'pure black' (defined as the point at which the black phantom spawns) you were actually blacker then my 'pure black', such that maybe it is tracking 'blackness' by a float number and when you killed both the black phantom and the primeval demon you ended up some fraction of WT away from 'pure white' (defined as the point at which all the white stuff is unlocked).

All I can say is it has worked for me every time I tried it. Its also possible that if you are playing offline that WT works somewhat differently from playing online, perhaps?

Yeah, I agree its a bit silly. Reactive worlds in general are cool though, I just wish the system was more intuitive and less meta-gamey.

Agreed. The concept is very cool, it's just the implementation I have issues with.

Was most likely just an experimental thing they added to give a bit of depth and mystery to the game, as well as to see if players liked it. Creating a well-developed system is something that you would probably want to build the game from the ground up to support. Its also something that, badly implemented, would feel out of place in a game that is otherwise pretty much a third person Diablo, and if anything is good about Demons Souls it's just how well the gameplay fits together.

 

[CrimHead]

Maybe I'm alone here, but I found the whole "world/character tendency" stuff to be a bit much. I liked the game, don't get me wrong, but I never really got into the whole tendency thing. It just seemed like an another unnecessary layer of complexity that existed solely for players to post about on the Internet and learn to exploit, rather than something that legitimately added to the game.

Nah, I'm definitely in the same boat. I don't even bother with it. Maybe I'll be forced to in NG+ when everything is supposedly slap-your-shit-hard, but for now I'm doing just fine. Doesn't seem to add anything relevant to the gameplay beyond being a timesink and giving the player the ability to obtain game-breakingly powerful bullshit. It's an incredibly stupid idea, and I hope they add something less arbitrary and metagamey in Project Dark.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

The WT and BT weapons really aren't 'game-breakingly powerful bullshit' at all. Most of them are at best a little worse off compared to fully upgraded regular weapons, and only really collected for their uniqueness. Mirdian Hammer/Uchigatana/Guillotine Axe and others are where the good stuff is at. Things like the dragon bone smasher are pretty much joke weapons.

 

[CrimHead]

Huh. I was under the impression the Dragon Bone Smasher was the most powerful weapon in the game fully upgraded. Oh well. Still think it's a rather arbitrary mechanic though. If you just played the game you'd have no the whole tendency thing even existed.

Also, why do so many people use the Uchigatana anyway? Excluding the bleeding thing, its stats look pretty mediocre. Also extremely low durability.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Dragon Bone Smasher is fairly powerful in pure damage per hit, but it is (rightfully) slow as fuck and takes lots of stamina per swing. A full combo from other weapons is generally just as damaging if not more and a hell of a lot easier to land on someone who actually dodges.

Uchigatana is pretty good because there is a stunlock you can do when you dual wield them, stunning a player with one hand while hitting with the other. Its really deadly against players who haven't encountered it before. And again keep in mind, weaker weapons generally take less stamina per swing and so you can swing them more often. IIRC Uchigatana players can take 5 or 6 swings at once, which easily makes up for the slightly weaker damage it has. 'Course, most players using them are probably doing so either because lol katanas.

 

[anus_pounder]

Thanks for answering the question. I'll MP in soul mode now.

 

[J_C]

It's an incredibly stupid idea, and I hope they add something less arbitrary and metagamey in Project Dark.

I don't think it is stupid, although I don't care about it either. A nice little extra for those, who have the time and will to find some rare things and meet some extra characters. There are always gamers who want to max out everything in a game (although I don't understand why).

 

[anus_pounder]

No point in denying it. I'm shit terrible at this game. I forgot what little I knew.

What are some basic starter tips?

EDIT: I'm playing a Temple Knight and would much rather rely on my weaponry and occasional (healing) miracles rather than asplosion-magic.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Use a Halberd/Mirdan Hammer, two hand it, win game. Not nearly as much of a game winner as magic, but there aren't many enemies that can't be beat simply by knowing exactly how long your range is with the polearm. Mirdan Hammer is technically slightly better as a base weapon since blunt damage is better against most enemies, but Temple Knight starts with a Halberd and Mirdan Hammers are much harder to find anyway, so use whatever. Prioritize upgrading whatever your chosen weapon is. Plan the upgrade path based on what you want your final stats to be.

Cling ring is great for soul form. Thief ring is great all the time. With it you can stealth away from most things surprisingly well, even some bosses. Keep in mind that light armor, slowly walking, and soul form all reduce the noise you make, and that auras will reveal you to other players but not monsters.

Wear whatever the strongest armor you have, but make absolutely sure you can roll well in it (<50% of max equip weight to roll well). Rolling is 100x more important then armor, some of the class's base armor is actually too heavy to roll and its actually better to play half naked until you get lighter armor.

As far as magic goes, magic weapon/light weapon/curse weapon are all great as long as your weapon can be enchanted. For the most part, if the weapon already has fire or magic damage it can't be enchanted. Cloak is like an uber thief ring (doesn't stack), and will let you sneak obscenely close to enemies without being seen. Protection spells are OK, but really just more of a crutch for PvE. All of these are still very effective even with minor magical ability.

For Miracles, the standard heal and poison remover are good. Second Chance revives you immediately if you die, and is an excellent failsafe, but can't be used along with the protection spells.

For stats, you want to aim for about 35-40 Endurance at some point since that gets you to your max stamina, letting you make the longest attack strings. Otherwise its pretty much up to you, just go with what affects the weapon you are using or hit the breakpoint for being able to carry another spell/miracle.

 

[Damned Registrations]

There's an awesome mace in world 4-1 that regenerates hp slowly and does magic damage based on your faith stat, I used that for a long time before I made myself a fire element mirdan hammer. Blunt + Magic rapes pretty much anything with enough hp to need raping, and the regen is a real life saver in the long run, unless you farm to carry around a million herbs to use every time you get scratched.

The two important shields in the game are the dark silver and the purple flame shields. Former blocks magic, later blocks fire. Both are heavy as fuck. The purple flame shield can be found in world 1-1 by the dragons. Good luck with that.

 

[CrimHead]

I've started using acid cloud+scraping spear in PVP just for the fuck of it before I finish them off with my cleaver.

Coincidentally, I've also started getting some hate-mail.

Didn't know so few people carried back-up weapons.

Feels good man

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Acid Cloud AND Scraping spear is a bit too much. Bring the baby's nail or plague cloud, then stand back while they degen in agony and waste all their grass since almost no one has high plague resistance and plague reduces healing effects

 

[Antagonist]

Use a Halberd/Mirdan Hammer, two hand it, win game. Not nearly as much of a game winner as magic, but there aren't many enemies that can't be beat simply by knowing exactly how long your range is with the polearm.

The true beauty of the mirdan hammer is its stunlock and its shield breaking abilities though. With enough stamina you can rape many enemies without them being able to defend themselves.

Mirdan Hammers are much harder to find anyway

There's a mirdan hammer at the beginning of 5-2 which is easy to get. You just have to get past the two %&$§! giant goblinmen in 5-1. :D The boss is pushover so it should not pose a problem even to novice players once you discover his weakness.

Second Chance revives you immediately if you die, and is an excellent failsafe, but can't be used along with the protection spells.

Except for some specific bosses I usually prefer second chance as it's a cast-and-forget spell unlike warding which has to be recast every 60 seconds.

For stats, you want to aim for about 35-40 Endurance at some point since that gets you to your max stamina, letting you make the longest attack strings. Otherwise its pretty much up to you, just go with what affects the weapon you are using or hit the breakpoint for being able to carry another spell/miracle.

I'd say he should also become familiar with the weapon bonus system because your final character build very much depends which weapon or upgrades you want to use in the end and understanding how the different stats interact with the weapon damage is quintessential. Otherwise he'll probably spread your levels thin and end up with a suboptimal character. And here's the crux of the matter: Unless you read through all spoilers available it's almost guaranteed that your character will be suboptimal because you don't know your options. After playing through NG with my first character I immediately build a second one and this time I made a detailed plan up to level 100 and which weapons to use (also spares you from having to hunt crystal geckos which you won't need in the end).

 

[Overweight Manatee]

You hardly need an optimal character. Since the effect of stats scales off the higher you get (except magic damage, oddly), more then 30/40 in an attribute gives very little advantage. The advantage in having 99 in a stat instead of 40 in a stat ends up being about 20%. This is pretty uniform across stats other then magic/miracle power, for example 99 intelligence only gets you 6 spell slots while 30 is enough to get you 5, while Faith is even worse and has absolutely no spell slot advantage over 36 in the stat (and how many spells care about the faith magic power? Exactly one). Endurance has no stamina benefits past 40, etc etc.

The only thing you can do that is really at all detrimental is level luck, which doesn't really do anything for your combat ability unless you use the blueblood sword (and whose utility in finding more items seems to be questionable). Still, if you get behind a bit on stat allocation its quite easy to grind up a few levels quickly in a few of the soul farming spots. But in any case, you can absolutely beat the game naked, at SL1, with your bare hands, and it isn't too exceedingly hard to do so after you have played the game a few times. IMO, restarting the game just to change around a few stat points is the height of lunacy unless you are super serious about PvPing everyone.

 

[anus_pounder]

Is it recommended to specialize my weapon stats? I was thinking of just sticking to the normal lv.0-10 weapons instead of specializing in str,dex,etc. types.

Also, whats the earliest soul farming spot? Right now i'm macing skeletons in 4-1, but that only takes me so far....

 

[Antagonist]

Is it recommended to specialize my weapon stats? I was thinking of just sticking to the normal lv.0-10 weapons instead of specializing in str,dex,etc. types.

Yes, it's typically recommended that you specialize in one of the weapon-damage related stuff unless you want to build your character beyond level 120+ which is only recommendable if you have too much time at your hand and don't care about PvP since the last time I played DS 120 was the range where PVP happens mostly. Faith based builds are usually regarded as good beginner builds since blessed weapons do magic damage, you can get some insane health regen with the right items, high magic resistance and a blessed mirdan hammer +5 will rape most enemies.

Also, whats the earliest soul farming spot? Right now i'm macing skeletons in 4-1, but that only takes me so far....

4-1 is good for low-level farming but I'd move on to 4-2 as quickly as possible which has the first good farming spot which gives about 6000 souls (it's near the archstone so you only need less than 60 seconds for a farming run). The ultimate farming spot is in 4-3 after you defeat the main boss of the world. On pure black world tendency and with the ring of avarice you'll earn about 27000 souls in about 60-90 seconds on NG, even more so if your character can use soul thirst.