IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TOTALLY AVOID COMBAT IN FALLOUT 3.

[Silellak]

Like shooting the soldier on the left prior to shooting the one on the right, even if you could theoretically have shot the one on the right and then the one on the left, and leaving the room through the window or through the door.

Or:

1. Saving the slave children by buying them OR
2. Using SCIENCE! to hack a computer to disable their collars, convincing the guard to leave his post using speech, saving the first two children, then convincing the third child to leave without rescuining her friend using speech OR rescuing her friend using a combination of stealth and/or violence OR letting him loose but sending him out alone to die
3. The above, but using repair instead of SCIENCE!
4. The above, but killing the guard instead of convincing him to leave
5. Kill everyone in Paradise Falls, take their keys, and rescue all the slaves

There are options that require no violence, and options that require wholesale slaughter.

Sure, it'd be nice to have more options, like keeping the kids as slaves, or telling Euology their plan and getting a reward. But your "example" is ridiculous.

For me pedophilia is a form of community service, and there's no denying that, because obviously not everyone can agree on just ONE definition, as I clearly just defined it as something else. Now to see if it holds up in court.

Where is the support for your definition, besides other people in the Codex saying "LOL HES DUM"? The only source for a definition I can find is Wikipedia, which has a pretty broad definition of the idea of non-linear game and - get this - it supports both our opinions.

Again, your over-exaggerated "example" is ridiculous. Pedophilia is something I can look up in the dictionary. Let me know when you find a definition in the dictionary for non-linear game.

 

[St. Toxic]

Or:

1. Saving the slave children by buying them OR
2. ???
3. PROFIT!

In other words, Soldier of Fortune is a non-linear game.

Where is the support for your definition, besides other people in the Codex saying "LOL HES DUM"?

Don't need it, not the point. Also, you really surprised me there, by not getting it. You're quite the cunning little minx. :wink:

 

[Texas Red]

Is Megaton the biggest city and do all other cities contain 2 or so quests? I suppose I should not expect quests such Gecko reactor?

 

[Silellak]

Don't need it, not the point. Also, you really surprised me there, by not getting it. You're quite the cunning little minx. :wink:

The point is that you decided Fallout 3 is a linear game based soley on an incredibly strict definition. I disagreed with that definition, and provided multiple reasons why.

Your retort has basically been "You are stupid and wrong, and I am right and don't need to prove why."

I apologize for trying to have a reasonable discussion here. Next time I'll pay better attention to the URL in my browser.

 

[Elwro]

I had wanted to write a post on how my predilection for set theory made me treat "non-linear" as "branching", but I thought about it more and decided the idea didn't apply to the discussion whether being able to do things in various orders was nonlinearity or not. Still, postcount++

 

[ricolikesrice]

I want a big town with a lot of diplomacy and talking.

me too... but please not in fallout 3. i m enjoying the game the most when i m out in the wilderness with no friendly NPCs around. its each time i start talking to an NPC that i want to hit my head against the keyboard and get an urge to stop playing.

a whole town of people like sheriff sims and the associated quests and i d quit. no matter if there s 500 different ways to deal with the quests.

"Hello Vault Dweller, can you find my cat"

1. (STRENGHT) Yes, i am strong enough to do that (reward: +100 xp)
2. (LADYKILLER) Yes, you look good btw ! (reward: take this nuclear missile as a gift )
3. (Intelligence) Sure, unless it was teleported into another dimension i will find it (lololol)
4. (Science) Cats eat mice, are there any mice nearby ? if so i ll find it. (reveals minimap location of dungeon full of mutated mice)
5. Yes
6. No
7. Bye

 

[SuicideBunny]

Actually the only "locked" location is Raven Rock Base, you can enter the Jefferson Memorial after the Enclave taken over.

citadel, raven rock, vault 101, vault 87.
raven rock isn't even accessible with cheats, because they break the script.

 

[Shannow]

Actually the only "locked" location is Raven Rock Base,

So you could get into the Citadel without following the mainquest? (Serious question. There may be options I didn't try/find).

Haven't exactly been following the thread but did VD give a definition of what non-linear is?
Is it branching, being able to do things in different orders, different ways of solving the the quests of the main-quest, being given some main objectives and solving them "by yourself" or something else. FO3 has some of the third variety...

 

[Drakron]

Well ... no, the Citadel is also "locked" (I forgot about that) but not as much as Raven Rock that is kinda like the Oil Rig of Fallout 2, a one shoot deal as the Citadel when opened remains open until the end of the game.

Vault 101 is "locked" in the sense you cannot go in right after you were kicked out but re-opens later on and even if it can "close" again you can keep it "open" as long you want.

As for Vault 87 I suppose you CAN find Little Lamp before knowing about it and even knowing Vault 87 existence from Vault Tek Mainframe but I guess getting in would kinda break the script that leads to Raven Rock so I accept its "closed" or at least parts of it remain closed until its time to go there.

 

[SuicideBunny]

Vault 101 is "locked" in the sense you cannot go in right after you were kicked out but re-opens later on and even if it can "close" again you can keep it "open" as long you want.

it only opens after a specific point in the main quest, which makes it inaccessible until used, just like 87 and the citadel.

As for Vault 87 I suppose you CAN find Little Lamp before knowing about it and even knowing Vault 87 existence from Vault Tek Mainframe but I guess getting in would kinda break the script that leads to Raven Rock so I accept its "closed" or at least parts of it remain closed until its time to go there.

which is pretty annoying considering the entrance is sealed off with a friggin lever guarded by a small girl.

 

[Hazelnut]

As for Vault 87 I suppose you CAN find Little Lamp before knowing about it and even knowing Vault 87 existence from Vault Tek Mainframe but I guess getting in would kinda break the script that leads to Raven Rock so I accept its "closed" or at least parts of it remain closed until its time to go there.

which is pretty annoying considering the entrance is sealed off with a friggin lever guarded by a small girl.

It is? I must have found a different way in. I spoke to a black kid who switched on a computer terminal which I then hacked to open a door that allowed me to skip murder pass. Don't recall a girl and a lever. Oh, I've yet to see a slaver after 35 hours and finishing the game. It's definitely a step up from Oblivion, but not as much as I first thought.

 

[SuicideBunny]

there are two entrances, one is the terminal, another and easier to find is the murder tunnel or whatever it was called, which has a gate with a "you cannot use this at the time" lever, guarded by princess.

Oh, I've yet to see a slaver after 35 hours and finishing the game. It's definitely a step up from Oblivion, but not as much as I first thought.

interesting. that's pretty much how long i've played it, and i came across several random slaver encounters (fighting escaped slaves, escorting normal ones), not to mention paradise falls and the lincoln memorial.

 

[kris]

interesting. that's pretty much how long i've played it, and i came across several random slaver encounters (fighting escaped slaves, escorting normal ones), not to mention paradise falls and the lincoln memorial.

Never saw any random and my karma is high (maybe that is the problem?), did see Lincoln just recent though.

 

[SuicideBunny]

can't be as i had max karma all the time (annoying too, had to use the console to get that stupid robot party member). maybe they are just rare, like the firelance drop.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

The point is that you decided Fallout 3 is a linear game based soley on an incredibly strict definition. I disagreed with that definition, and provided multiple reasons why.

Most definitions are strict. Otherwise words wouldn't really mean anything and communication would be kind of pointless, wouldn't it? "Cat" doesn't mean "tree" part of the time, otherwise "My cat is stuck in a tree." would be a horribly ambiguous statement.

Providing multiple bad reasons doesn't add up to a single good reason. The linearity of a game has always referred to the main plot of the game. How you win the game is what's important. If there were only one way to win Fallout instead of six ways, Fallout would be linear even if it had or didn't have a time limit.

Stopping from the main quest to go shopping doesn't make it non-linear. Stopping to do an optional quest won't make it non-linear. Stopping to grind experience from random encounters won't make it non-linear. Stopping the main quest entirely won't make it non-linear because you'll never win.

 

[Silellak]

The linearity of a game has always referred to the main plot of the game. How you win the game is what's important.

And this quote is exactly what I have issue with. "Always" according to who? You? The Codex? Some universal gamer glossary that, as far as I know, doesn't exist?

I realize Wikipedia sucks as a source, but until you can provide a better one, all I can do is point again to this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_gameplay

A game that is noticeably nonlinear will sometimes be described as open-ended or as a sandbox.

So, unlike what VD said, "sandbox" and "non-linear" are not different concepts. A sandbox game is a form of non-linear game.

We can debate the definition of "non-linear game", because unlike your simplified example of "cat", it's not just a word, it's a concept. Just like people STILL debate what exactly defines a game as an "RPG".

There is room in the definition of "non-linear games" for both games with non-linear main plot threads and games that are "sandbox" games with linear main plot threads.

 

[Vault Dweller]

So, unlike what VD said, "sandbox" and "non-linear" are not different concepts. A sandbox game is a form of non-linear game.

I'm not saying that I'm an authority, but neither is the guy who made that wiki entry. Surely you realize that? So, basically, your rebuttal is "you are wrong because some other guy who actually bothered to type something in the wiki said so".

 

[Cuther]

once I met a wastelander rigged with explosives by the raiders. tried to help her but I hand't enough explosives skill. She blew up

 

[Silellak]

So, unlike what VD said, "sandbox" and "non-linear" are not different concepts. A sandbox game is a form of non-linear game.

I'm not saying that I'm an authority, but neither is the guy who made that wiki entry. Surely you realize that? So, basically, your rebuttal is "you are wrong because some other guy who actually bothered to type something in the wiki said so".

And everyone else's argument has been "You are wrong because we say so", so I'm not sure how that's any better.

Regardless, I'm sure you can agree that the concept of what is or isn't a non-linear game is at least open to discussion and debate, and isn't as simple as defining the word "cat".

 

[DefJam101]

A train is an order of occurrence designed to lead to some result.

 

[poocolator]

once I met a wastelander rigged with explosives by the raiders. tried to help her but I hand't enough explosives skill. She blew up

Me too, actually a number of times... >.<
I guess they were just reusing the same script. Wouldn't want to incite an aneurysm by writing more, and better encounters now, would they?

 

[ushdugery]

once I met a wastelander rigged with explosives by the raiders. tried to help her but I hand't enough explosives skill. She blew up

Me too, actually a number of times... >.<
I guess they were just reusing the same script. Wouldn't want to incite an aneurysm by writing more, and better encounters now, would they?

Unlike in fallout 2 where the ten times I saw horrigan order those people killed wandering the wasteland, where every one was etched with different nuance and subtlety.

 

[Helton]

Pretty sure that's a one-time per game encounter.

 

[Xor]

Well, if you count the optional scenes in Vault 13 and the Brotherhood of Steel base, it happens 3 times.

 

[Helton]

Well, if you count the optional scenes in Vault 13 and the Brotherhood of Steel base, it happens 3 times.

Right. In the Vault 13 and the Brotherhood of Steel that were wandering through the wastes.