Is it possible for a true RPG game to have acceptable sales?

[Stabwound]

The classic Gothic fan might be disappointed because the game no longer follows the classic Gothic approach. But we did this intentionally. We wanted to reach a broader audience, to make the game more marketable internationally. It's the old problem: I can't please everybody. It is clear, Arcania comes at the expense of Gothic's long time community [the German "Urgemeinde" is untranslatable; Ed.]. But the sales success seems to prove us right.

This is just sad. Fucking sad.

I get the feeling that we will never see a true CRPG game from a big or even medium sized company ever again. The trend these days seems to be to throw tens or hundreds of millions of dollars into a game, and then to recoup the cost, release it on both PC and every console under the sun. It has to be dumbed down to the extreme for it to be acceptable to constoletards, too. It's just not acceptable to release a game without paying Captain Picard $2 million to voice the part of King Faggot, or to have lovely 5 minute animations every time anything happens in the game.

I just noticed now, even The Witcher 2 is getting consolized. Dragon Age started as a true BG successor (before the PS3 and Xbox 360 were even announced, I think) and over time it got retarded up to be suitable for consoles. Now we look at Dragon Age 2 and it's gone even further. If you've been following the Gothic 4 story, you know just how retardized they've made the game in the name of making it more accessible to people.

I just looked at a list of "upcoming CRPGS" and the vast majority of them are all being released on consoles as well. What a sad state of affairs.

Is there any hope at all? I guess even making a great RPG game for the PC that sells well is just not good enough if you can also put it on the consoles and sell even more copies. Terrible.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Sales success is relative to budget, the problem is disgustingly bloated development/marketing costs forcing people to play it safe. AoD will be a success if it sells even a few thousand copies (correct me if I'm wrong), which it'll hopefully manage.

Also, isn't Arcania doing pretty shit?

 

[Malakal]

Yes.

How? You do not cater to wide audience but target fans or 'nerds'. Its how it is done in Japan. You spend on coding the game but not on marketing or paid reviews or voice acting or grafix etc etc. You expect to sell 'small' ammount of copies, thats from 20 to 100k but that should be enough to pay Your expenses for the team. This is how Paradox started and how they maintain their business - small cadre of core players, mainly focused on a forum. You think complicated strategy You go to Paradox, they occupy a niche.

RPG devs could eb the same, I for one hope that one day we will get a Paradox Interactive of RPGs. Theyc oudl reuse the same engine for what I care.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

It depends what you mean by a 'real RPG'.

The old 80's and early 90's CRPG's were essentially small team operations. There was a little bit of work specialisation with teams doing different things, but ultimately, they were small time. Pool of Radiance broke records with its 100k plus sales.

Jeff Vogel is indicative of what can be done on a yearly basis. His 'one game a year' policy sums up the one man band and what can be done. Could he do more with his games? of course, but he would probably be bankrupt in a short time, or have to get another job and make games part time. Incremental changes, that is the best he can do and stay in business making games.

Give some examples of what you mean by CRPG's.

Because if you expect The New Shit, forget about it.

 

[JarlFrank]

In case of Gothic 4, look at Risen: it was made by the original Gothic devs, stayed true to the Gothic gameplay that the fans liked, including no handholding and harsh difficulty in the beginning, and managed to be a success. Now they're making a sequel.

Thing is, many devs (and all of the big publishers) think that by making a mass-market dumbed down accessible action game with light RPG elements (that are not very complex in order to not be confusing) they can make a lot more money than by making a game that actually requires effort to do right, and has a fanbase that won't believe all your marketing stunts.

 

[Shannow]

As in politics I believe games will swing back and forth. Exploit the poor long enough with Capitalism and they'll rise up. Either resulting in 1-2 decades of striking a balance between economy and people before declining into corruption and exploitation again, or decending into "People's" party autoritarian tyranny (aka Communism). And back again.
I'm sure games will get better again (and then worse...and back...), it just might take a while. Managers are morons but at some stage somebody might realize that it might not be the smartest move to throw millions at a dev studio for them to churn out the same crap as all the others...

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

In case of Gothic 4, look at Risen: it was made by the original Gothic devs, stayed true to the Gothic gameplay that the fans liked, including no handholding and harsh difficulty in the beginning, and managed to be a success. Now they're making a sequel.

Thing is, many devs (and all of the big publishers) think that by making a mass-market dumbed down accessible action game with light RPG elements (that are not very complex in order to not be confusing) they can make a lot more money than by making a game that actually requires effort to do right, and has a fanbase that won't believe all your marketing stunts.

And this thinking is becoming more prevalent in Publisher land. By the way things are heading, things will get worse in AAA land before they ever get better. The new stuff is getting progressively dumber by the day, and PB better not have another failed game (G3), or that will be the end of them. Hopefully, their publisher will not turn around and tell them that they need to Next Gen up Risen 2.

 

[deus101]

This is something thats been on my mind lately.

But i think that there is alot of unesescary bloat.

Especially when they add tons of voice actors, which frankly often makes the experience worse.

 

[Raapys]

I don't really think it will get any better. AAA titles will never be what we want them to be. I think the only real hope of getting good RPGs in the future, is indie or small-time developers/publishers.

 

[deus101]

Why don't we start a terrorist organisation to threaten people to wise up people in their consumerism.


....no really

 

[JarlFrank]

Why don't we start a terrorist organisation to threaten people to wise up people in their consumerism.


....no really

I'll join if we use a swastika as our emblem.

 

[deus101]

no no...we need something that exemplifies our rage.

 

[madbringer]

A swastika made out of dicks it is.

 

[deus101]

 

[commie]

What is thy bidding my master?

 

[mouser]

I'll ask the larger question: Is it possible for a PC only game title to be a success?

The console market dwarfs the PC game market. Look at the amount of shelf space PC games get at a Gamestop compared to every other console. Walmart is the only retailer near me to give PC titles any real room (1 side of 1 short aisle), and that includes all the "productivity" titles as well as games, game cards, and 300 versions of Mahjong.

My only hope is that consoles will keep "wising up" so games won't have to dumbed down to play on them. Also, the average age of console gamers is rising (more and more with every major layoff...). So maybe it will all even out someday.

And maybe Duke Nuke'm Forever will finally be released...

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Well, it certainly helps if the game is a commercial failure because that indicates the sheeple didn't like it and-

 

[poetic codex]

A few months ago, I would have started a thread like this. As a matter of fact, I believe I have started a thread like this on general gaming.

But I have gained some perspective, and I see this issue under a different light. What we're asking for is unreasonable. Our tastes (which might vary greatly) are decidedly niche. Unless the game is made by a small company or an indie company, they cannot afford to make a game suited to specialized tastes.

So, no, don't expect a big name company to simultaneously cater to our specific tastes (whatever they might be) and survive financially.

But it's not all bleak:

a) Tastes are capable of changing. I guarantee you that the people enjoying Mass Effect 2 are having just as much fun as you ever had when you were playing whatever "real RPG" you enjoyed. It's meeting their tastes. If your tastes change, then that game would meet your needs as well. This might deserve a new thread, but right now I'm playing some games that I would have avoided in the past. And similarly, it's impossible for me to replay certain games that I used to spend hours on. I can't replay Baldur's Gate 1 because I no longer enjoy its writing and dialogue style (and the BG 1 NPC Project with its painful writing was the final nail in the coffin for me) Compare this to two years ago when I would spend 6 hours a day being enthralled as I explored the Cloakwood, or the mines, or the Tower etc. Moral of the story: Tastes do change.

b) You might be thrown a bone. Even the evil big name companies try to cater for a few niche tastes at least a little bit. After all, they are trying to cast as wide a net as possible. Dragon Age is apparently "consolized" but the Codex has tons of written backstory and lore (Admittedly, I found it dry and boring, but at least they tried)

 

[Pablosdog]

I'm pretty sure it was the love of capitalism that got us here in the first place.

 

[Mastermind]

But I have gained some perspective, and I see this issue under a different light. What we're asking for is unreasonable. Our tastes (which might vary greatly) are decidedly niche.

More importantly, a lot of the average codexfag's tastes are inconsistent and retarded.

 

[madbringer]

But I have gained some perspective, and I see this issue under a different light. What we're asking for is unreasonable. Our tastes (which might vary greatly) are decidedly niche.

More importantly, a lot of the average codexfag's tastes are inconsistent and retarded.

The average codexfag is generally a nostalgia junkie that abhores and gets aggravated by most games released post 2k. That's inconsistent how, exactly? Less alone retarded, tastes preference blah blah blah.

 

[poetic codex]

^Ha ha. Perhaps I should edit my post to read: Tastes do change... unless you're a Codexian :D

 

[Mastermind]

The average codexfag is generally a nostalgia junkie that abhores and gets aggravated by most games released post 2k. That's inconsistent how, exactly?

It's not, because it's an oversimplification. Even with the codex trinity (fallout, arcanum, planescape) you'll find no shortage of faggots who will praise (or complain about) one thing in one and complain about (or praise it) in a newer game that wasn't designed by cain or avellone's cock.

 

[madbringer]

Heheh, fair enough.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I have found Geneforge 5 pretty good for what it is.