I just started Baldur's Gate 2...

[Andrej]

Yup. BG2 is pretty shitty from time to time, but I'm amazed at the amount of contents and sidequests and stuff there's in the game. Really, there's just so much to do (even of a lot of it is only interesting for the combat and is otherwise pretty bland).

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to mention, I'm replaying it right now.

 

[Thrasher]

I liked the insane battles against the uber spellcasters. Those really required some thought.

But for the life of me very little of the story nor characters was memorable. PST on the otherhand was memorable throughout.

But that could just be failing brain cells...

 

[Andrej]

Thrasher: The spellcaster battles require no thought, just spam protection spells at yourself before the battle, then spam protection breach type spells while your fighters whack away and get in hits between the durations of the protection spells. Also, use items that have spell-like abilities that are damaging but ignore saves & spell protections.

 

[made]

The fact that people are pissed off by Minsc, Jaheira, and Aerie is testament to how effective the writing is. Every NPC is multifaceted, you're supposed to find things to like/dislike about each one. Not one of them is totally likable nor deplorable - but that's the point. They all have polarizing aspects of their personalities. They have depth.

QFT. People who dislike Minsc clearly lack the mental capacity to grasp how deep and multifaceted his character actually is. Another fine example of the masterful writing Bioware is famous for.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Anyone know how to make an image bigger in a thread?

 

[Liberal]

The fact that people are pissed off by Minsc, Jaheira, and Aerie is testament to how effective the writing is. Every NPC is multifaceted, you're supposed to find things to like/dislike about each one. Not one of them is totally likable nor deplorable - but that's the point. They all have polarizing aspects of their personalities. They have depth.

Yes, only a deep and multifaceted character could deliver a line like: "'Beware Evil, for you are about to be buttkicked!". It takes talent and years of practice for such effective writing.

 

[Korgan]

FUK U PPL, BG2 BEST EVAR, RLY

 

[Thrasher]

Thrasher: The spellcaster battles require no thought, just spam protection spells at yourself before the battle, then spam protection breach type spells while your fighters whack away and get in hits between the durations of the protection spells. Also, use items that have spell-like abilities that are damaging but ignore saves & spell protections.

So that explanation required no thought?

The other battles were easy by compariosn (i.e. generic standard tactics applied).

 

[1eyedking]

 

[Andrej]

So that explanation required no thought?

Not really, it was a long way of writing "Buff, Debuff, Attack - rinse and repeat" with the extra advice of using some of the items found in the game.

 

[kingcomrade]

LOL SPACE HAMSTER xD XD XD

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

QFT. People who dislike Minsc clearly lack the mental capacity to grasp how deep and multifaceted his character actually is. Another fine example of the masterful writing Bioware is famous for.

I should've mentioned that as soon as I see the light of day Minsc is given the boot. I said before he's so bad he's not even an option.

However, bitching about how bad Minsc is, is like saying "Gee it really hurts when I stick this burning poker in my eye over and over again". No shit. Don't use Minsc.

edit: I should mention I'm replaying BG2 now, having given up after a few hours of FO3, so my recent frame of refrence for qualitry writing has been fucked.

 

[hiver]

thats right!

 

[Volourn]

"Thrasher: The spellcaster battles require no thought, just spam protection spells at yourself before the battle, then spam protection breach type spells while your fighters whack away and get in hits between the durations of the protection spells. Also, use items that have spell-like abilities that are damaging but ignore saves & spell protections."

Youa r ean idiot. You don't even need that stuff. Obviously, t=you thought this through. That's more thinking than most Troika RPGs. Surely didn't have to think THAT much in their games. R00fles!

 

[Forest Dweller]

Anyone know how to make an image bigger in a thread?

Come on people someone must know this.

 

[hiver]

We all know but we dont want to tell you.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Alright here is the image.

It's an error message I get when I try to install the enhanced resolution mod. Of course, it's too small to read.

 

[someone else]

I like your wallpaper. I've always wanted to shoot a bear.

 

[Andrej]

Youa r ean idiot. You don't even need that stuff. Obviously, t=you thought this through. That's more thinking than most Troika RPGs. Surely didn't have to think THAT much in their games. R00fles!

Don't be more stupid than you have to, Volly. There's no real thinking or real planning involved, it's just a matter of spamming your highest level breach-type spell while hacking away. It's really very intuitive. The big difference from other combats in the game is that you spam breach spells instead of magic missile or acid arrow.

Fuck, even I could write a conditional script that would allow you to beat all caster battles but Irenicus with no skills in programming. IF enemy spellcaster protected THEN spam highest level breach spell. IF enemy spellcaster unprotected THEN spam Magic Missile.

As for the challenge of combat in Troika RPG's, that's an entirely different matter. I found TOEE quite hard as it was also my introduction to 3rd ed. However, that's not my point. My point is that most spellcaster battles in BG2 are very easy and require a minimum of thought. No -real- thought. It's a lot simpler than calculating your odds (correctly) in CIV I or II.

However, i will give BG2 this, that its amazing what they've done with the game after looking at the complete and total broken clusterfuck that 2nd ed AD&D is.

 

[Volourn]

"Fuck, even I could write a conditional script that would allow you to beat all caster battles but Irenicus with no skills in programming. IF enemy spellcaster protected THEN spam highest level breach spell. IF enemy spellcaster unprotected THEN spam Magic Missile."

No. In fact, it's also not the only way either. I have never used breach.

The fact that you found TOEE hard means you are a pussy. It required very little thought.

 

[Elric]

However, i will give BG2 this, that its amazing what they've done with the game after looking at the complete and total broken clusterfuck that 2nd ed AD&D is.

As if 3E/3.5E aren't broken too?

Andrej, did you play the game at standard difficulty, or did you use mods like SCSII? Not trying to make any judgments, just curious.

 

[non]

Dicksmoker:

If you have the error I think you have, then it has something to do with the version number of the mod being out of date or something like that.

What you do is get another mod that works, run that (you don't have to go through with the installation) and it will update the other mods in that folder. Then try again with the first one.

IIRC you can also copy the install-file of a mod that works and just rename it to the faulty one. E.g. Setup-HardTimes.exe renamed to Setup-TutuGUI.exe.

 

[Ammar]

Don't be more stupid than you have to, Volly. There's no real thinking or real planning involved, it's just a matter of spamming your highest level breach-type spell while hacking away. It's really very intuitive. The big difference from other combats in the game is that you spam breach spells instead of magic missile or acid arrow.

Fuck, even I could write a conditional script that would allow you to beat all caster battles but Irenicus with no skills in programming. IF enemy spellcaster protected THEN spam highest level breach spell. IF enemy spellcaster unprotected THEN spam Magic Missile.

As for the challenge of combat in Troika RPG's, that's an entirely different matter. I found TOEE quite hard as it was also my introduction to 3rd ed. However, that's not my point. My point is that most spellcaster battles in BG2 are very easy and require a minimum of thought. No -real- thought. It's a lot simpler than calculating your odds (correctly) in CIV I or II.

However, i will give BG2 this, that its amazing what they've done with the game after looking at the complete and total broken clusterfuck that 2nd ed AD&D is.

You oversimplify. For example, Liches are immune to Breach and other spellcaster also use Misdirect spells, requiring you to use True Sight as well. Besides, there are no "Breach-Type Spells" in BG 2 but the 5th Level "Breach" Spell. The other remove spell-protections like GoI , Breach removes protections like "Absolute Immunity", "Stoneskin",...

 

[felicity]

Don't be more stupid than you have to, Volly. There's no real thinking or real planning involved, it's just a matter of spamming your highest level breach-type spell while hacking away. It's really very intuitive. The big difference from other combats in the game is that you spam breach spells instead of magic missile or acid arrow.

Fuck, even I could write a conditional script that would allow you to beat all caster battles but Irenicus with no skills in programming. IF enemy spellcaster protected THEN spam highest level breach spell. IF enemy spellcaster unprotected THEN spam Magic Missile.

The highest "breach spell" is Lv 9, you can't spam it, Lv 9 spell slots are too precious for that purpose. Lv 9 breach is THE spell supposed to break mages... complaining about it is silly, given that you can only cast a few per day. And that spell removes only spell protection, you still need other various breach spells for tanks to deal damage. Killing with spells will deplete your spell stock way too soon, unless you abuse the resting system by resting every encounter. Many mages rebuff with contingency when they are hurt, so you will need to debuff again, if you rely only on the limited spell slots that Lv 9 has, you won't go far.

All other "breach spells" have their pros and cons, the higher level ones aren't always better. For example, spell turning will reflect breach, but dispel magic casted as an AoE will remove spell turning at a successful check. When enemies have spell turning on, it may be more effecient to use aoe dispel than spamming the higher level ones that are capable of removing spell turning but do so at one buff at a time. I remember some enemies have spell immunity - abjuration, breach (and a lot other similar spells) don't help in such cases.

And then there are spell level immunity (lich - Lv 6), spell school immunity (undead - necromany), spell resistance (drow/rakshasa/lich). Some spells can lower SR but not so good at debuffing, some spells are the opposite. It's not as simple as you are making it out to be.

You can go through the game by spaming various breach spells mindlessly but that doesn't say much about the magic system, rather the permited rooms of error of the encounter... You can make it through the smart or efficient way and come out unscathered, or you can make it through the stupid way and say this game is so retarded.

 

[Andrej]

The fact that you found TOEE hard means you are a pussy. It required very little thought.

Yeah, it has nothing to do with the fact that i didn't care about any dialog in town, composed my first characters ever in 3rd ed and went straight to the dungeon. Or the actual fact that at first level you die a lot.

As if 3E/3.5E aren't broken too?

Andrej, did you play the game at standard difficulty, or did you use mods like SCSII? Not trying to make any judgments, just curious.

3rd ed is broken aswell, but in my opinion not as broken as second ed or "2.5ed" which they tried in BG2.

I played the game at standard difficulty.

You oversimplify. For example, Liches are immune to Breach and other spellcaster also use Misdirect spells, requiring you to use True Sight as well. Besides, there are no "Breach-Type Spells" in BG 2 but the 5th Level "Breach" Spell. The other remove spell-protections like GoI , Breach removes protections like "Absolute Immunity", "Stoneskin",...

When i spoke of "Breach-Type Spells" i meant those who in general dispell and break protections. "Breach-Type Spells" is my own name for them. There's no point in discussing terminology when it's obvious what I meant.

But you're absolutely right, when the enemy caster disappears into thin air you need to cast detect inviss-type of spell of the highest level you have available. Very intellectually challenging.

The highest "breach spell" is Lv 9, you can't spam it, Lv 9 spell slots are too precious for that purpose. Lv 9 breach is THE spell supposed to break mages... complaining about it is silly, given that you can only cast a few per day. And that spell removes only spell protection, you still need other various breach spells for tanks to deal damage. Killing with spells will deplete your spell stock way too soon, unless you abuse the resting system by resting every encounter. Many mages rebuff with contingency when they are hurt, so you will need to debuff again, if you rely only on the limited spell slots that Lv 9 has, you won't go far.

Half the recruitable characters are mages – there’s no real limited supply of 9th level slots. Far as I recall, the 6th and 7th level ones work here as well, just not as fast.

All other "breach spells" have their pros and cons, the higher level ones aren't always better. For example, spell turning will reflect breach, but dispel magic casted as an AoE will remove spell turning at a successful check. When enemies have spell turning on, it may be more effecient to use aoe dispel than spamming the higher level ones that are capable of removing spell turning but do so at one buff at a time. I remember some enemies have spell immunity - abjuration, breach (and a lot other similar spells) don't help in such cases.

It might be more efficient but it’s not needed, just pick the highest level breach-type spell you have and then if that one doesn’t work go a level lower, rinse repeat.

And then there are spell level immunity (lich - Lv 6), spell school immunity (undead - necromany), spell resistance (drow/rakshasa/lich). Some spells can lower SR but not so good at debuffing, some spells are the opposite. It's not as simple as you are making it out to be.

A lot of spells remove both protections and lower SR – spam them and you’ll get to the core. One's level 7 and will pass the liches imunity.

You can go through the game by spaming various breach spells mindlessly but that doesn't say much about the magic system, rather the permited rooms of error of the encounter... You can make it through the smart or efficient way and come out unscathered, or you can make it through the stupid way and say this game is so retarded.

Not saying the game is retarded, but the fact that you can just spam and not even bother to think about things like SR, protections and such doesn’t make it a mensa membership test. I enjoy it, spell caster battles more than the other parts of it – but spamming spells will get you through the resistance more than nine out of ten times. Assuming your party’s total level is anything comparable to the enemies.


When I'm playing the game now, I'm thinking and casting whatever spells work best for the situation, but that doesn't change the fact that you don't have to think - if you don't want to.