How should WoW end? How should any MMO end?

[Kane]

Molten Core was the beginning kiddy raid dungeon.

Too bad you've likely never been through the first Naxx to compare it with the revised one. Or SSC or TK, which were coordination fights that make current fights look like kid's play, and you couldn't have morons screwing up else it would kill the entire raid.

So WoW is serious business now?

 

[Imbecile]

MMOs should not end. Why would the game developers pass up on all the lovely money.

It would be like suggesting that drug dealers wean you off the heroin after 2 years and put you on a Narcotics Anonymous course.

 

[Stereotypical Villain]

How should WoW end? With Warcraft 4 and then World of Warcraft 2: Oh shit giant shoulderplates.

(Either that or Tools wet dream: World of Starcraft.)

 

[Major_Boobage]

How should WoW end? With Warcraft 4 and then World of Warcraft 2: Oh shit giant shoulderplates.

(Either that or Tools wet dream: World of Starcraft.)

Heed your words Stereotypical Alt. MMORPG's disgust me.

A Starcraftwow would be heresy. Might just happen in the future, because boy oh boy Blizzard has found the fat cow ready to get constantly milked in WOW. Every month 10 euro to do constantly the same, its brilliant.

 

[Secretninja]

With Diablo 3

 

[Rosh]

So WoW is serious business now?

It is if you're a gold farmer. :D

 

[Data4]

If there's a difference between casuals and morons in WoW, I've yet to see it.

Maybe not the mainstream definition of "casual", but I count myself as one. See my previous post about my MMO playstyle. Those of us who could give fuck-all about endgame or even guilds for that matter, etc., etc.

 

[Rosh]

Maybe not the mainstream definition of "casual", but I count myself as one. See my previous post about my MMO playstyle. Those of us who could give fuck-all about endgame or even guilds for that matter, etc., etc.

Fair enough, I can see that. But then why are they compromising any semblance of end game difficulty? It is seriously pissing off the raiders. They've gone through the recent content of Wrath faster than any other end game content in the game.

 

[Data4]

Maybe not the mainstream definition of "casual", but I count myself as one. See my previous post about my MMO playstyle. Those of us who could give fuck-all about endgame or even guilds for that matter, etc., etc.

Fair enough, I can see that. But then why are they compromising any semblance of end game difficulty? It is seriously pissing off the raiders. They've gone through the recent content of Wrath faster than any other end game content in the game.

If I had to guess, it's probably because about 80% of the 11 million or so subs are likely slobbering idiots that innundate the support email boxes, phone lines, and forums about how hard clicking a LMB is; 5% are the hardcore raiders you refer to; and the other 15% are just apathetic twits whose every other word is "meh".

 

[Rosh]

If I had to guess, it's probably because about 80% of the 11 million or so subs are likely slobbering idiots that innundate the support email boxes, phone lines, and forums about how hard clicking a LMB is; 5% are the hardcore raiders you refer to; and the other 15% are just apathetic twits whose every other word is "meh".

That does sound accurate...

 

[Silellak]

The MMO genre hasn't been worth a damn since the EQ model proved more profitable than the UO model. So, instead of more sandbox-style, skill-based MMOs, we ended up with level-and-gear-based grindfests that the genre is now. Granted, this sort of game really started with MUDs and the like, but at least UO offered something different in regards to how a massively multiplayer game could work.

Not to say UO was anything approaching perfect - and over time it only got worse - but the only major game that tried follow in the same path was SWG, and we all know how that fucking turned out. EVE is sort of in the same vein as UO, but the "gameplay" in that "game" is so fucking tedious that it's really no more than an economic simulator in space. Almost everything else has been some variation of the EQ model, and WoW is just the casual-friendly, dumbed-down endgame of that crusade.

Unfortunately, WoW's popularity means almost all MMOs released, or still in development, are always essentially "WoW + X", where X is the gimmick that you hope will attract the 1-5% of WoW's playerbase that translates into a profitable MMO. Which is why I could really give two shits about the future of the genre. The only people trying to make UO-style games are small companies who don't have the talent or finances to release a working MMO (see: Darkfall).

 

[Jaime Lannister]

Starcraft MMOFPS would be pretty good actually

 

[Data4]

The only people trying to make UO-style games are small companies who don't have the talent or finances to release a working MMO (see: Darkfall).

UO is/was one of those phenomena that passed me by. Did it have a focus on player skill? The reason I ask is because Darkfall and the only other similar game, Mortal Online, seem to make that the focus, which to me effectively turns it into some sort of Death Match where the winner is the guy with the least amount of... well, a life. Not to mention all the macro exploits of beating up a wall with one's sword to raise skill points. I'm pretty sure there had to be some element of PVE with UO with quests and all, but everything I've read about DFO and MO seems to be nothing but "kill the other guy and take his stuff". Sounds more like South Central Los Angeles Online to me.

That's why MMOs will always fail. Visit DFO's forums and you see people identifying themselves as "hardcore" players, which in layman's terms means "I'm strictly PvP." They're not hardcore RPG players. They're FPSers in chainmail. To them I say "GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY GENRE, ASSHOLE!"

 

[Xi]

Origional UO :

When you die, other players can loot your corpse.

You can buy and place houses around the world and even place personal vendors at your houses. This created small communities. It even created Ghettos full of murderors and areas that you didn't want to venture into alone.

Crafting was perfect. No other game has come close.

The skill system was fun, and the skill cap idea was pretty good in terms of implementation.

Anyway, I could go on and on, but it's a moot point now. The game is terrible now with all the good things of the past destroyed. Also, the game lacks in player base now too, before there was always a LOT of people online. Now, probably do to the size of the world, you rarely see anyone. You'll feel like you're playing a single player game.

Might be worth a look if your curious though. It's still an interesting concept.


It was a game that could be HIGHLY rewarding with little effort, but also very discouraging if you're having a streak of bad luck. ;P

 

[Rosh]

It was that uncertainty of what would happen as your traveled across Britannia that would create a unique play experience every day. Some days you had bad days and ran into PKs (and therefore should keep all good valuables in your bank box or house), but other days were a blast. Sometimes you just had a quiet day and worked on your professions character to create a stock of that new armor you've been wanting. One thing about death like that, you had to have several replacement sets, which wasn't that expensive at all.

Kingdom of Dawn, an in-game community for 11 years on Baja, still going. It is one of the oldest player-run cities in the genre. I remember when numerous "good" guilds issued a challenge to the PK/evil guilds, which sparked into a massive all-out war.

The winners? Whomever was alive to pick through the loot and recall away. Kal Ort Por!

That little bit of fun? Instigated by meeeeeee! :D

 

[Data4]

Well, see... I have this character flaw about me. I'm a graphics whore. Granted, I've always thought that graphics should work in concert with gameplay to enhance the whole, and not work despite the gameplay (see Oblivion). It doesn't have to be bleeding edge, either. Just implemented well.

I've been lurking in the mmorpg.com forums and I see others like me mixed in with the dipshits. It's kind of maudlin in a way. They all seem to be waiting for UO2, but in the current ADD climate of the community, it's never going to happen.

 

[Rosh]

Well, see... I have this character flaw about me. I'm a graphics whore. Granted, I've always thought that graphics should work in concert with gameplay to enhance the whole, and not work despite the gameplay (see Oblivion). It doesn't have to be bleeding edge, either. Just implemented well.

UO's graphics are functional, though stay away from the first 3d client. They made the game look far worse than it already might have been a bit fugly.

I've been lurking in the mmorpg.com forums and I see others like me mixed in with the dipshits. It's kind of maudlin in a way. They all seem to be waiting for UO2, but in the current ADD climate of the community, it's never going to happen.

UO2 (another one, would be the third attempt) would be surprising news to me. All I know is that they are making a new expansion called The Stygian Abyss that is running into loads of bug problems and the same crappy design problems that the last few expansions created. They've really written themselves into a corner.

 

[Data4]

Well, see... I have this character flaw about me. I'm a graphics whore. Granted, I've always thought that graphics should work in concert with gameplay to enhance the whole, and not work despite the gameplay (see Oblivion). It doesn't have to be bleeding edge, either. Just implemented well.

UO's graphics are functional, though stay away from the first 3d client. They made the game look far worse than it already might have been a bit fugly.

I've been lurking in the mmorpg.com forums and I see others like me mixed in with the dipshits. It's kind of maudlin in a way. They all seem to be waiting for UO2, but in the current ADD climate of the community, it's never going to happen.

UO2 (another one, would be the third attempt) would be surprising news to me. All I know is that they are making a new expansion called The Stygian Abyss that is running into loads of bug problems and the same crappy design problems that the last few expansions created. They've really written themselves into a corner.

Well, I mean a new game that captures the gameplay of UO but with shiny graphics. Darkfall was supposed to be some kind of spiritual successor, but I don't see how. All it has going for it is FFA PvP and no levels. I haven't seen anything about player-run communities or the ability to build actual structures in the game. I know it was mentioned in the pre-game hype, but I've been trying to follow actual gameplay reports. You can make boats and form pirate guilds, which seems cool, but there's still too much negative stuff out in various forums.

I did stumble on a 3 part "Let's Play" type video set on YouTube where a guy goes through starting a character and getting into the world. Looks okay, for the limited scope you can see in the videos. Still doesn't convince me to get it when it's available.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1xCZ610 ... 9&index=23

 

[Rosh]

Check out this thread for a bit of more info:

http://www.wtfman.com/forums/general-di ... l#post4914

Some seem to like it, but the exploit hounds have been all over this title. I've seen too much stuff about the game rely on the game client, such as movement as mentioned in the link, where someone with a hacked GUI could teleport pretty much wherever they wanted to.

 

[Data4]

Check out this thread for a bit of more info:

http://www.wtfman.com/forums/general-di ... l#post4914

Some seem to like it, but the exploit hounds have been all over this title. I've seen too much stuff about the game rely on the game client, such as movement as mentioned in the link, where someone with a hacked GUI could teleport pretty much wherever they wanted to.

Arrgh! There's so much potential there, and yet equal amounts of crap. Did you see the link in that thread to the epic multi-guild battle of 200-300 or more people? It sounded great, and yet it sounded horrible at the same time. What I mean is some people seemed to be in the spirit of the game, talking about alliances and diplomacy and such, while others were of the lolpwnz0r breed. I mean, okay, people 'round here call it LARPing in a video game, but what's wrong with playing the part of a member of an established guild in a fantasy land and acting it out as a sort of improv theater? I can see how it takes a huge stretch of the imagination and a whole lot of denial to do it in a themepark game like WoW, but free-form games where one CAN be Lord of the House is perfect for it. And still, the deathmatch/team fortress mentality persists.

Leave it to people to taint a good thing. Maybe Darkfall just needs to mature and get its wide release going with NA servers. EVE Online's roleplaying community took forever to get where it is now, so maybe there's hope. If it weren't for the fact that I enjoy the fantasy RPGs, despite how overdone it is, over sci-fi, I'd be playing EVE now.

Guess it's wait and see. Oh, and yeah, that client hacking is BS. Society-- particularly gaming society-- has proven that if something can be modified to give someone an unfair advantage, it will be. This MUST be fixed or the game will be nothing but an anarchist circlejerk of hacks.

 

[Rosh]

Yup, I pretty much agree with all of that, but have to add that UO was the same way in terms of the wide open world. To date, it remains one of the best MMORPGs because of that, and because it wasn't a shitty Warcraft EQ clone of a theme park like you said. There was just so much to do, while Blizzard had to seriously dumb WoW down in order to get that 11M cattle number.

 

[Kingston]

I stopped caring about Warcraft when WC3 came out. What the fuck was wrong with having orcs and humans and them killing each other over and over again?

No, seriously, what is wrong with that? It's a good and fun premise, no need to fuck it up with stupid elves and demons from other dimensions or whatever the fuck is going on in WoW.

 

[Rosh]

Did you hear the latest?

Players are now so lazy and/or attached to their characters, Blizzard caved in and so quite possibly soon you will be able to change factions.

...WoW, indeed.

 

[Secretninja]

How would that even work? Alliance side is over crowded on all servers already, and 90% of people switching would be switching to alliance since the racials are better.

 

[Rosh]

How would that even work? Alliance side is over crowded on all servers already, and 90% of people switching would be switching to alliance since the racials are better.

No shit. Blizzard's redefining stupid, which is why most WoW players are morons. If you find someone using gear/gems with the right stats, they could be considered an expert.