Help Me To Not Hate Bioware Games

[Cthulhu_is_love]

Help me to throw my life in the trash can!

Nah, boy! Where here to help ya...

When there's anyone who can help than it's the 'dex.

Spoiler

Ban him already!

 

[gestalt11]

Sorry I got nothing. Eff Bioware.

 

[MilesBeyond]

That's like half of their games.

NWN has the best interface of all Bioware games. I know, it has a MMO-like hotkey bar, but the wheel thingy is intuitive, easy to use, and the inventory is very comfortable. Sadly, the main campaigns are really meh; the OC is atrociously bland. Not bad, just bland, which is worse than being bad.
IE is good for party based games, but managing stuff like Bags of Holding and other containers can be a bit tiresome, especially by mid-late BG2, because you have tons of shit. Luckly ToB introduced ammo containers.
Dragon Age's interface is comfy as well but it's just NWN 2.0, and the story, while better than NWN, is still ASoIaF-fanfic tier.

Mass Effect 1's inventory is absolute garbage though. It's confusing, you don't get immediate access to the weapons' upgrades, and you have to micromanage third person combat without isometric camera options. It's as bad as it sounds. ME2 at least made combat more "dynamic", which meant corridor popamole. However 2 had this "brilliant" thing which makes you download all the story related DLCs if you want to experience the whole game.

In short: avoid everything after KOTOR with the exception of DA:O which had a zoomed-out, kinda-isometric camera option.

If you can learn to play games like Gothic 2 and Dark Souls, you shouldn't have trouble with the NWN series. You're right that they're not necessarily comfortable out of the box. But tweak them a little and get used to them, and they're just fine.

Hordes of the Underdark is my favorite of them. I recommend playing without map for enchanced atmosphere and challenge. You actually get a decent-sized party in that game (three).

Mask of the Betrayer was a lot of fun when I first played it, in a sort of speed-run manner suggested by the story premise. It was fun to try beating Okku right out of the starting dungeon (and succeeding). It was madness to fight the witch without protection from mind control, but I finally succeeded at that too. Stupid game wasn't designed for a fast playthrough though, is what that battle proves. But after that the game was manageable and pure fun. When I later tried a more measured playthrough where I explored stuff and whatnot, I got bored rather soon. *shrug*

In the NWN games (as opposed to NWN2 games), I'd say: focus on the atmosphere and just beating those games in a way that seems the most rewarding for you (I opt for some amount of larping and avoid power-gaming).

Congratulations! As far as I can tell, you're the only two that actually read my post and not just the title!

NWN I find the interface tolerable because you're only controlling one person. However, I only play it online because only being able to control one person in SP makes it annoying (which is weird, because it's never bothered me in games like Fallout or Arcanum... but at the same time, those games are built around you being just one character. D&D is very much a party-based mechanic system, and when it's just you and a follower, you miss out on a lot).


I have heard a lot of good things about HotU, but the completionist in me won't let me make a new character for it. For whatever reason I feel wrong unless I do SoU and import my character from that into HotU, and I'm not really a big fan of SoU.


Come to think of it, you're right that DA:O had a semi-tolerable interface. I wish they'd do like BGTutu but for all Bioware games, where I could play KOTOR with DA:O's UI. Still not great, but infinitely better than KOTOR's.


Come to think of it, are there any RPGs out there that have stuck the landing to 3D? I can't think of a single one that has halfway decent controls.

 

[DeepOcean]

You have to keep in mind that Bioware you knew, from those games you liked, doesn't exist anymore.
When you remember that, you don't expect much anymore from "Bioware" new games.

Very true, most decent designers left Bioware long ago and the only big name of the old Bioware still in there is Gaider but let's say that whoever told Gaider he was a better writer than designer really doomed Bioware.

 

[Ninjerk]

I have that problem myself, except it has to do with Bioware's writers. The writing is corny, unaware, and just retarded. Now I'm no storyfag, but when writing is so offensively bad that I'm cringing, I have to turn it off. I still haven't made much headway into BG2. Just in the opening hour, you get some of the most annoying characters ever. Jaheira and Imoen are cartoonishly melodramatic and Minsc is a cartoon and a bad one at that, and they just won't stop talking. Please, no more, I can't handle it.

What's odd to me is that Bioware has had a few different writers over the years, yet it all feels like it's written by the same guy. The dialogue is similarly unnatural and befitting of fan-fiction, what stands for character development is your party members whining about something in their past for you to solve later in a quest, and the player character is treated like the group's all-knowing father. Meanwhile, the actual plotlines are pretty good and engrossing, with nice pacing that gives a steady flow of new twists/information at the right moments. The Bioware Formula is real.

I have to imagine better writers in the US can find employment with union protection and better benefits in fields e.g. Hollywood, TV, commercials, etc.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Beat Zenfar then try to play any Bioware games you hate.
I guarantee you, beating Zenfar before playing anything is the key to enjoy games.

Trigger warning.

Spoiler

 

[Lhynn]

I have heard a lot of good things about HotU, but the completionist in me won't let me make a new character for it. For whatever reason I feel wrong unless I do SoU and import my character from that into HotU, and I'm not really a big fan of SoU.

I replayed SoU recently, and its not that bad, low key and a bit slow, but i found myself being challenged by it, mostly because of the lack of resting in big sections of the module.
SoU is more like an origin story, but it really has no impact on HotU (gets brough up once or twice at the start of it), it only allows you to meet deeking the kobold bard. My only personal recommendation for going into HotU if you are a completionist is going in with a lot of gold, you can spend a lot more gold in dialogue that what is available on the entire module.

 

[gestalt11]

The existence of other bad games does not make DA:I suddenly into a good game. I will admit that one can school oneself to endure more and more pain, at least up to a point. But a) they still cause pain because they are bad and b) the singing in DA:I is a pretty high level of vomit inducing psychic pain.

 

[Menckenstein]

No.

 

[muds_animal_friend]

And yet I keep hearing about how awesome games like KOTOR and Mask of the Betrayer are.

From whom? Storyfag Codex? They're fucking appalling games, and you can go back to ignoring them safe in the knowledge you're missing nothing of value in terms of gameplay. If you want to play a good Star Wars game, then try one of the better LucasArts action games, and if you want a good AD&D implementation then try SSI's Goldbox/DarkSun games, or Temple of Elemental Evil.

Of the various iterations of Bioware's NWN engine, HotU and The Witcher are the only games remotely worth playing.

How do I play these games without hating myself?

You cannot. Imagine a mange-ridden, starving bitch dog devouring it's own stillborn young admit the desolation of famine-stricken village. That's how low, how utterly starving for anything remotely resembling an RPG, you have to be to touch those games. That, or a storyfag.

 

[Ninjerk]

OP, you're really not in the right place for someone to convince you to like Bioware. You can probably find more people here that have secretly logged 700+ hours playing Skyrim than secret-Biofags.

 

[Fitz]

The trick to not hating Bioware games post Baldur's Gate series is not to play them. Unfortunately, once you pass over the bridge I am afraid to say that the damage is done. The only cure for you now is to develop Alzheimer's.

Actually, the trick, Deuce Traveler, is not minding that it hurts.

 

[Amn Nom]

Neverwinter Nights is the best game to come out of them post BG2. Yes I'm serious. Pick a good fan campaign and enjoy the ride. Or just play Hordes of the Underdark.

KotoR is only good to introduce someone to the genre because of the IP. Not worth touching otherwise.

Jade Empire is OK. It gets points for being original, but there are better RPGs out there.

Mass Effect 1-3 are fun popamole shooters that does the whole cinematic thing well. Go in with those exact expectations and its enjoyable.

Dragon Age 1 isn't worth playing these days, it was only good because it was an RPG during the decline.

Dragon Age 2 is awesome button simulator.

Inquisition's core story stuff was enjoyable, but the filler in the game was fucking ridiculous.

Pick your poison.

 

[theSavant]

Okay, let's start with reasons to not hate Bioware:

1)
2)
3)

 

[naossano]

Try a Bethesda game. You will love Bioware much more.

 

[Jools]

These are bioware games worth playing:

DA:O

and that's it

Obligatory: Ban Gregz.

 

[Xathrodox86]

Every single Bioware game is the same as last one. They are literally the laziest assholes in the gaming industry. Even fucking Call of Duty is more diversed.

 

[Goblino]

Kotor 1 and 2 are my favorite Bioware games. I think the Bioware hate comes from how much plebs shit themselves over seeing dialogue options. Couple that with 3x more text than the game needs and gameplay that sucks flaming ass, and you've got one nasty case of cognitive dissonance when you actually play the games. Bioware makes popcorn games. At their best, they entertain and delight, and at their worst..... Jesus Christ

 

[Jools]

OP: I don't like it but I wanna rape myself

Rohypnol is your friend.

PS - seriously, why do you WANT to like those games? Can't you even accept your own tastes? I mean, I hate strawberry icecream or beetroot, but I don't go around asking people to help me like strawberry icecream or beetroot...

 

[Jools]

Every single Bioware game is the same as last one. They are literally the laziest assholes in the gaming industry. Even fucking Call of Duty is more diversed.

Always a good excuse to post this:

 

[pippin]

I've seen this chart many times and only now I notice IMC's name down there. Life has come full circle I guess.
And while I thought this needed updates, it seems Bioware hasn't made a new IP since Dragon Age.

 

[Adamaklas]

Owh mayh gawd, your title is kinda totaly misleading i thought my answer would be like this

But, no, you have a problem with a game's ( specificaly, a company's) interface. I really had No problems at all with all the games you mentioned, xcept, nwn2 i remember had a lil faggy camera and in dugeons or houses it went full retard, but really that time i wanted to test an arcane archer build that never worked so nvm.

Man, there are shitloads of games , of good games, with shitty interfaces. You can't get past that? You < hate> your self? Good! Don't fucking play the shit , if it makes you hate yourself ( 3 xxl burgers at 2 am does that trick for me) don't play it.

Play something else and come back when you feel like < yeah fuck interface i need to play something nice>.

Future tip on interface:
In fallout 2 you had to unlock a door in the first 15 mins of game play and you have like no hint on it or whatsoever, check your abilities and use them on the door. I knew 2 peeps who abandoned F.A.2 cuz they couldn't pass the tutorial, they thanked me for many years for that tip. Don't be the 3rd peer that will abandon it cuz of < the interface>.We were all 12.

You can hate bioware for billions of reasons, but if you hate them for < peewr inturface> fuck you you don't know rpgs.

 

[Aeschylus]

Kotor 1 and 2

 

[Goblino]

2 is the shyt with restored content mod. I like the idea of a star wars rpg where the final outcome was destroy the force? Dont destroy the force? or my favorite ending "huh well.... gee" It's basically using the license to deconstruct the star wars universe, so I cant complain.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Erm. Kotor 2 wasn't made by Bioware bro.