Hearts of Iron IV - The Ultimate WWII Strategy Game

[Raghar]

Like most paradox games with a lot of DLC, I have to ask if say, the Hearts of Iron IV - Starter Edition (HOI IV, Expansion - Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor, Expansion - Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory, Expansion - Hearts of Iron IV: Waking the Tiger, Hearts of Iron IV, Hearts of Iron IV: Anniversary Pack) worth a play?

Man the guns, La resistance (so-so), and No step back are the worthwhile expansions. The "country packs" you can pick from according to your interest in playing in a particular region or with a particular country.

"Man the guns" makes naval combat meaningful,

It simplified naval combat from 2D map to a list of front, center, and back positions which fights against second list of front, center, and back positions.

"La resistance" adds the spying and partisan movements minigames

You get three spies when you use adviser slot for spies, and then you do basically the same as you did previously when you were restricted by PP.

and "No step back" adds an actual simulation of supplying the armies. The vanilla simulation for supply is an absolute joke.

You are fighting about railroad 32, and that's it. You can also use infinite horses instead of trucks for supplies out of supply hub. I'm not even sure if the system even tries to stockpile supplies like in HoI2.

Even if it worked, they should use an abstract spy and railroad maps.

In my games Soviet Union usually attacks Poland in 1940 at the latest.

That's because you are playing Poland. Look the above Poland is in its own faction, it might be attacked by UK soon.

Actually this reminds me how hard is to get proper interesting playtrough. Joining wrong faction would make it too easy, and you can't sit it out because winner would likely to jump at you with crazy ideas like forcing a democratic government. (In reality oligarchs who would backstab original population and pay to US/UK/France.)

 

[Raghar]

How is this still gaining player numbers when all other Paradox games are crashing heavily?

They did right thing with production and few other stuff when they designed HoI4, and they broke only 1/3 of that stuff by DLCs. It's still passable game.

The problem is what I found recently is basically when I tried Japan, US navy was sitting in the port. No acting like ass, no random 4 US carriers and battleships descending on my carriers that had only few cruisers and destroyers as escorts. No nasty Japanese NAV land based bombers that killed 2 US carriers and damaged 1. Funnily HoI2 could do that.

In HoI2 there were even stuff when you played with MUSOLINY as leader... Hey Italy have you heard about these 6 US carriers that are 70 nm away from Venice? There are REAL US carriers 70 nm away from Venice and they are just launching strike against ships in port in Venice, and considering typical performance of Italian anti air, these ships would be MAULED.

2 years later when Italy build new carriers and other capital ships, they tried again. This time I had 2-4 squadrons of land based interceptors deployed in the sky above Venice.


But nowadays? Well yea, there are some random ships placed in certain areas. You either clean them repeatedly or you don't have enough ships/airforce to get rid of them. And eventually US/UK might run out of destroyers. Are carrier air wings losing fighters? If yea, they autoreplenish 24 hours later EVEN WHEN THESE FIGHTERS DON'T have range to reach closest port/airfield. Basically If AI would try at least sometimes to scout, or catch enemy (weaker) fleet, it would be better. But as now HoI4 has dynamic AI for land combat, but they didn't bother with dynamic AI for ship combat.

 

[sser]

The problem with the naval combat is it has serious 'strategic' misunderstandings. HOI4 doesn't grasp the purpose of the navies which was to project force, not outright annihilate each other. Ships are both durable and hard to hit, making sinking a ship a pretty big deal. In HOI4, you get these bizarro battles where dozens of ships get sunk, or even stranger where it's like one side loses every single ship and the other side loses like 1 plane or something stupid. There needs to be more emphasis on lanes of control, way more emphasis on naval superiority and what it entails, and have none of this be necessarily black-and-white. Control of land around seas should have a higher input on nearby sea fights. Pitched battles should be way more rare, yet also highly emphasized, possibly with an 'alert' that would go at the top shelf of the alert table (where it says you've empty factories and the like). There should be some sort of risk-matrix entailed there showing you all the areas that might influence a given big battle. I more or less am okay with the way it handles subs and destroyers (convoy hunting/convoy protecting), but everything strike-force related is a Babe Ruth-styled swing for the fences nonsense that sees entire fleets obliterated within like 1-year of the war's start.

I also think the general pace of the Pacific is a bit askew -- namely that fighting for islands is often one-province pop-a-mole fights that conclude way, way too quickly.

 

[Space Satan]

making sinking a ship a pretty big deal

No. Ship hits during WWII are a pure version of ultimate RNG. You can maul a ship and it will come back without a nose and billions of bullet holes a size of a crater or it can sink in MINUTES. It was the same for cannon boats, destroyers and battleships. Rolling a dice with each hit thanks to WWII legacy of overinflating main gun caliber. Ship main guns were monsters that far surpassed any armor countries could strap.

 

[Malakal]

making sinking a ship a pretty big deal

No. Ship hits during WWII are a pure version of ultimate RNG. You can maul a ship and it will come back without a nose and billions of bullet holes a size of a crater or it can sink in MINUTES. It was the same for cannon boats, destroyers and battleships. Rolling a dice with each hit thanks to WWII legacy of overinflating main gun caliber. Ship main guns were monsters that far surpassed any armor countries could strap.

Fairly sure barely any warship in WW2 was sunk by guns, mostly torpedoes instead.

I can't even recall a single instance, not into naval warfare but still.

 

[Desman]

The most famous exemples are probably the Hood and the Scharnhorst
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hood
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Scharnhorst
The Bismarck was finished with guns too.
The English also wiped the French fleet with battleships
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Mers-el-Kébir

Planes were still the main threat for big warships tho. Irc submarines were too slow to be a reliable threat and were mostly used to hunt merchant ships.

 

[sser]

making sinking a ship a pretty big deal

No. Ship hits during WWII are a pure version of ultimate RNG. You can maul a ship and it will come back without a nose and billions of bullet holes a size of a crater or it can sink in MINUTES. It was the same for cannon boats, destroyers and battleships. Rolling a dice with each hit thanks to WWII legacy of overinflating main gun caliber. Ship main guns were monsters that far surpassed any armor countries could strap.

This is true of virtually everything armor vs. AP.

My point is that sinking a ship was a big deal because it did not happen anywhere near the rate HOI4 portrays it as. In HOI4, you can pretty routinely get into (often lopsided) battles of annihilation on the seas from the moment the war starts, and thereafter have the seas more or less cleared out Year One into the conflict.

 

[Average Manatee]

HoI4 represents the pacific war as you sending your doomstack next to the enemy's doomstack and they shoot till one runs out of org and dies/retreats. Which is how nations thought naval combat would work and how it did work back when the battleship reigned supreme. What they instead did was refuse to engage (in the HoI4 sense) and send constant plane attacks from 100s of miles away. Which is also why controlling islands (since they are free giant unsinkable aircraft carriers) was such a big deal and why the US couldn't just doomstack the carriers next to Japan after Midway and bomb their ports/cities all day long. I think you can technically fight this way in Hoi4 if you want to (constantly monitoring your carrier group to keep them away from target and manually doing naval strike missions), but its a PITA, the AI still tries to fight like its the 18th century anyway, and you don't need to do this to mop the floor with it.

It's also an issue in that if you tried to make combat realistic and carrier/airpower based then you'd pigeonhole competent players into just spamming carriers/airpower rather than have all the other ships be useful.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

If you know all the good places to set up naval strikes, it's much easier and cheaper than bothering with navy.

 

[Space Satan]

Some announcement to come

Mostly referred to this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_Expeditionary_Force

 

[Raghar]

Now I had an attempt to win as ComChi when: Japan created Chinese puppet that had province with steel and industry I needed.
After war with Japan, Russia created commie Japan puppet, AND Chinese different commie puppet that had province with steel I needed. I created industry elsewhere. But it was neighbor of ComChi capital.
So after declaring war on Russia which got me into war with Japanese again. I conquered China 3rd time.
Then Poland got majority of Russian industry, and surprisingly didn't create Chinese puppet with province I needed.

UK was in a war with US, and US managed to conquer islands, and only India and some other stuff remained.

Then I declared war on Mongolia which was Poland's puppet... And then US decided that ChomChi is island of sanity in what was happening left its own alliance and asked for joining. Thus ComChi is in alliance with US shooting at Poland who owns 80 percent of Russia, and this percentage is falling.

So I wonder when war is basically won, and world conquest will not happen because US was nice at me. If I should finish the slog going through whole Russia to get at Poland, because it's quite hard to get a sensible naval invasion somewhere into Europe that wouldn't mean to attack UK alliance.

I can attack Egypt, but it would be quite harsh. Or I can ask commie France to allow me to use ports for ship resupply and do a naval invasion around half of the planet into Germany. Slogging it through Russia probably will not be so bad because I have production of modern tanks with mere 2 years delay and I have 300 modern jets already.

 

[Raghar]

The problem with the naval combat is it has serious 'strategic' misunderstandings. HOI4 doesn't grasp the purpose of the navies which was to project force, not outright annihilate each other. Ships are both durable and hard to hit, making sinking a ship a pretty big deal. In HOI4, you get these bizarro battles where dozens of ships get sunk, or even stranger where it's like one side loses every single ship and the other side loses like 1 plane or something stupid. There needs to be more emphasis on lanes of control, way more emphasis on naval superiority and what it entails, and have none of this be necessarily black-and-white. Control of land around seas should have a higher input on nearby sea fights. Pitched battles should be way more rare, yet also highly emphasized, possibly with an 'alert' that would go at the top shelf of the alert table (where it says you've empty factories and the like). There should be some sort of risk-matrix entailed there showing you all the areas that might influence a given big battle. I more or less am okay with the way it handles subs and destroyers (convoy hunting/convoy protecting), but everything strike-force related is a Babe Ruth-styled swing for the fences nonsense that sees entire fleets obliterated within like 1-year of the war's start.

I also think the general pace of the Pacific is a bit askew -- namely that fighting for islands is often one-province pop-a-mole fights that conclude way, way too quickly.

I looked at a MP match between Japan and US in War in the pacific. Because Japanese player is A LOT better than his opponent that even when the game is HEAVILY lopsided against Japan, they have decent balanced match where ships are exploding everywhere. And more importantly airframes are exploding on airfields thus causing bit aircraft shortage. It was interesting when US ships that were not blown at Pearl Harbor because some players don't bother with attack against Pearl Harbor, these ships blew up Japanese airfield and airplanes that were recently deployed to attack US ships in the area.

So yea, when they can prevent enemy aircraft to hit cruisers and battleships, cruisers and battleships are quite efficient for attacks against these small islands.

The main advantage of naval combat in WotP over naval combat in HoI4 is they are actually simulating damage to weapon systems, and they are simulating ammo storages. You can't catch US battleships with nearly empty ammo stocks in HoI4. And they don't even bother to mark one of "design slots" as damaged/destroyed.

In addition HoI4 doesn't simulate that large warships needs proper shipyards and docks for resupply, and these facilities were at: Japan, Singapore, US west coast, US east coast, and aside of some stuff in other UK holdings that was about it in the Pacific. Using floating docks and repair ships was quite important in Pacific area.

 

[karoliner]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/trial-of-allegiance-historical-brazil.1622218/

​

 

[Raghar]

Typical HoI4. Italy conquered France, Czechs exist, UK is commie, Spanish empire was conquered and liberated, Mexico is conquering central America, Poland is fighting with Russia, Turkey is called Turkey, Germany is in war with Japan (because Manchuria joined axis and declared war on Japan).

Only US isn't in any alliance.

Edit:
Japan is in war with: Germany, Italy, Spanish Empire, narrowly evaded war with commie UK for refusing to decolonialize China and Korea when German East Indies conquered UK before UK decided to declare war at Japan, Legionary Romania, Hungary, France, Bascony, Barbary Tunis, Ocitania, Uruguay, Yugoslavia, North Sea Empire, Xaymacan Empire, Maghreb Empire... And because Germany would soon capitulate theirs eastern neighbor, my northern border would have to be defended by ONE mountain division, because the rest of army is in Egypt.

And of course Russia collapsed and then instead of 1200 fighters going against me, I was attacked by 4000 fighters in ONE location. Meanwhile US is liberating commie UK.

 

[Raghar]

Write new alternate histories of the globe’s most dramatic conflict in Trial of Allegiance, a new content pack for Hearts of Iron IV. Explore and dominate a world where the strife of the Second World War threatens the safety and security of South American nations. Build a regional superpower to counter the rising global powers, or join the war early, taking your chances with one of the major ideological blocs. South America is rich in resources and manpower - can you lead Argentina, Brazil or Chile to a glorious alternate future?

Hearts of Iron IV: Trial of Allegiance includes:
National Focus Tree for Brazil:
Challenged by a decade of internal strife and constitutional crises, Brazil can follow the historical path as a late but valuable member of the Allied cause. Alternately, seek continental hegemony under a new government with new priorities.
National Focus Tree for Argentina:
Rife with corruption, revolts and worker unrest, Argentina presents a difficult political challenge. Once you’ve settled the problems at home, you can contribute more on the world stage and help this nation reach its full potential.
National Focus Tree for Chile:
Chile is a vigorous republic with a radical tradition that must face domestic fascist parties, the embers of ethnic unrest and the imposing influence of the United States. Chart a course of equality and renewal, rallying under the banner of continental unity.
Paraguay and Uruguay:
Minor content as well as several new releasable nations.
New Art:
New 3D unit sprites for the Brazilian army, as well as new unique 2D art for National Focus trees and units
New Music:
Six new songs, with two each for the major nations in the pack.
New Voiceovers:
Voiceovers in Brazilian Portuguese, Argentinian Spanish and Chilean Spanish.

Oh dear. It's a cash grab.

 

[AwesomeButton]

"Are you not entertained immersed?"

They did a brazil dlc for Victoria 3 as well. Must be significant chunk of the market, who knows.

 

[Rean]

The next cashgrab is now out, alongside an update.

Ready to experience the FURY of Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay?

 

[Raghar]

The next cashgrab is now out, alongside an update.

Ready to experience the FURY of Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay?

Like this?

Do you remember Brazilian UFO case? A big Brazilian army detachment was hunting 3 naked midgets in the jungle... THEY FOUND THEM.

I think Paradox developers can't go as RAW as that.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Too bad there's no helicopters, I would definitely play as Pinochet.

 

[Space Satan]

ALL REVIEWS: Mostly Negative (659)

 

[sser]

Strange that they did not include Bolivia who has, in that era, claims to multiple lost territories + actively fought on the side of the Allies. No other real features besides Focuses. I'm a WHOIRE through and through, but I'm skipping this one.

 

[Fedora Master]

Nobody has ever or will ever care about South America

 

[Raghar]

There is a review. (Warning they have some sponsor sketch at the beginning.)

 

[Modron]

Three expansions are free at the moment:

 

[Nirvash]

Three expansions are free at the moment:

Must be damage control.

ToA is rare example of complete horseshit dlc, no gameplay update, just some extra nation focuses full of bugs and worse than most mods.
Asking money for that is insane.