Grey Eminence - from SOME of the MEIOU & TAXES folk

[Sranchammer]

Spanning from 1356 to 1956, steer the fate of any country on Earth through six epic centuries of conflict. Diplomacy, economics, warfare and intrigue are all weapons in your arsenal to transform the world that was into the world that could be.
Simulation on an Unrivaled Scale

• A world of over 1,000,000 tiles, each with its own geography, population and buildings.
  
• Realistic demographic model, breaking down population by social class, culture, religion, age and gender.
  
• Logistics-based economy driven by supply & demand, with over 50 types of goods.
  
• Powered by Unity's revolutionary Data-Oriented Tech Stack (DOTS).

Innovative Game Design

• Character-driven politics and diplomacy, where each country is a unique amalgam of its elites and their competing interests.
  
• Interconnected technology/progress system that allows for emergent gameplay with no railroading.
  
• Optional complexity game design, allowing you to engage with mechanics at your own pace without feeling overwhelmed.

Built with Moddability in Mind

• Use our built-in world editor to easily craft your own worlds and settings.
  
• Alter virtually any feature in the game, from core mechanics to UI & AI.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1858700/Grey_Eminence/

 

[Catacombs]

So...Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis combined into one game?

 

[Axioms]

Been talking to them in the Discord. Very interesting stuff. Good to see someone else made a post.

 

[Deflowerer]

Finally some competition to Paradox?

 

[Axioms]

Finally some competition to Paradox?

They should definitely cause some concern at Paradox. Historical focus, better simulation, some fancy stuff. Lots of them modded EU4 and other stuff so they are in tune with the community.

 

[Sranchammer]

As long as I can own slaves in 1950 CSA Charleston I will be happy.

That's what it's all about right?

 

[thesecret1]

Looks interesting for certain – the inspiration with EU4 and the stuff they did for MEIOU is pretty clear. Wonder how a gender breakdown will be relevant in any serious capacity. I guess if there's a devastating enough war, male ratio might drop and thus affect birth rates or something? Looks like a strange thing to model, of all things.

More worryingly, though, I see HRE represented as a single country. I hope that's just a placeholder for a proper mechanic, because that's simply unacceptable.

 

[Deflowerer]

Wonder how a gender breakdown .

Everyone becomes a tranny by 2100 and society collapses under the weight of insanity.

 

[XenomorphII]

This will probably never see the light of day, but here's hoping. The grand strategy market needs more games and competitors.

 

[Sergiu64]

Were these the guys that crashed and burned when Paradox actually hired them? There have been so many, I've lost track.

 

[thesecret1]

Were these the guys that crashed and burned when Paradox actually hired them? There have been so many, I've lost track.

Are you referring to Magna Mundi? That's ancient history at this point. I'd be surprised if any of the guys that were working on it were part of current or recent EU4 modding scene.

 

[Zariusz]

So...Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis combined into one game?

How it combines Europa Universalis and Crusader Kings? It doesnt have CK characters from what i can tell, and its far past CK on timeline, considering that timeline here ends in 1956 so its more like combination of EU, Victoria and Hearts Of Iron.

I hope that they will be able to finish MEIOU 3.0 before this project will suck them completly, those screenshots with populations clearly look very simillar to what they are doing in MEIOU 3.0.

 

[Seigneur Locklear]

As much as I would love to see anything or anyone challenge the monopoly Paradox has, this seems overly ambitious and the intended time span honestly makes me question the overall vision they have.

 

[Norfleet]

As much as I would love to see anything or anyone challenge the monopoly Paradox has, this seems overly ambitious and the intended time span honestly makes me question the overall vision they have.

Not to mention that the player will rule the world relatively early in this timespan. Also, I'll be impressed if they actually make a diplomacy system that works, because I've never seen it. Either the AI will let you steal the shirt off his back and sell it back to him for a profit while thanking you for the opportunity of a lifetime, or he's obstinately unwilling to negotiate and won't even accept blatantly favorable offers like "I will give you $2 if you give you me $1". Which means diplomacy is essentially dead there. When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative: Violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way.

 

[Axioms]

So...Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis combined into one game?

How it combines Europa Universalis and Crusader Kings? It doesnt have CK characters from what i can tell, and its far past CK on timeline, considering that timeline here ends in 1956 so its more like combination of EU, Victoria and Hearts Of Iron.

I hope that they will be able to finish MEIOU 3.0 before this project will suck them completly, those screenshots with populations clearly look very simillar to what they are doing in MEIOU 3.0.

They have characters of some kind but I think populations are primary. Only 3 of the MT devs are working on this so shouldn't be an issue with the mod.

As much as I would love to see anything or anyone challenge the monopoly Paradox has, this seems overly ambitious and the intended time span honestly makes me question the overall vision they have.

Timespan is just fine if you hack off the last 100 years. I guess they wanted 300 years before and 300 years after the treaty of westphalia plus of course the alignment with the Golden Bull.

As much as I would love to see anything or anyone challenge the monopoly Paradox has, this seems overly ambitious and the intended time span honestly makes me question the overall vision they have.

Not to mention that the player will rule the world relatively early in this timespan. Also, I'll be impressed if they actually make a diplomacy system that works, because I've never seen it. Either the AI will let you steal the shirt off his back and sell it back to him for a profit while thanking you for the opportunity of a lifetime, or he's obstinately unwilling to negotiate and won't even accept blatantly favorable offers like "I will give you $2 if you give you me $1". Which means diplomacy is essentially dead there. When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative: Violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way.

With proper internal politics no reason why you would get the whole world. Takes until pretty near the end of the game for EU4 Maybe you'll get control in the 18th or 19th century if you are smart of follow a guide.

Bad diplomacy is a product of bad design. Like stupid shit tech systems influenced by Civ for instance. You can't just "trade complex ideas and materials science". Ridiculous shit. Sid should be ashamed. Proper diplomacy even AI understands is simple if the design isn't retarded.

 

[Serus]

As much as I would love to see anything or anyone challenge the monopoly Paradox has, this seems overly ambitious and the intended time span honestly makes me question the overall vision they have.

Yes, they should have made a shorter timeframe if they wanted a game that is in anyway historical at all and not just another map painter, even less connected with any reality than Paradox games are. They call it "simulation" but you can't make one set of mechanics that makes sense for all the history (or even from late medieval to modern) - unless you want something very generic. Basically a more complex Civilization. There is no third, realistic, option. Well, in theory there is one: you can try to make a game so big and so complex that it will never get done. They probably will attempt to make it and fail. Or end with the generic, boring option. At least Paradox gets one thing right - they have several games with different mechanics to portray the history at least somewhat sensibly. Imagine a game made of CK+EU+Vicky+HoI using one set of mechanics. Not a good image.

 

[Sranchammer]

Were these the guys that crashed and burned when Paradox actually hired them? There have been so many, I've lost track.

That was Ubik, and the HOI guys for East v West

 

[Malakal]

I cant really see how a game could even remotely accurately represent the changing realities of economy, society and warfare from medieval times to post WW2. I mean they would have to cover feudalism, industrialism, nationalism and go from small groups of knights and levies fighting to mass industrial warfare...

Still anything new is welcome, thats for sure.

 

[Axioms]

Yeah a lot of people have the 1956 end date as a primary criticism. Personally I might go from 1356 to 1656 or something. Stop at Westphalia. If you want to go long why not just start earlier? 1056 to get the build up to the Battle Of Hastings.

 

[thesecret1]

they picked 1356 because that's the start date MEIOU uses, meaning they already have all the research they need for that particular year (all the nations, their borders, cultures and minorities across the world, etc.). They aren't going to move that date unless absolutely necessary. As for why 1956... MEIOU end date is 1856, so I guess they decided to one-up it or something? Or maybe they feel they have what it takes to simulate the 20th century as well? A couple more dev logs might shine some light on that

 

[Axioms]

Devs logs aren't coming out soon or super quickly according to their team lead.

 

[Norfleet]

With proper internal politics no reason why you would get the whole world. Takes until pretty near the end of the game for EU4 Maybe you'll get control in the 18th or 19th century if you are smart of follow a guide.

That lasts until you solve it. My experience is that it pretty much NEVER takes to near the end of the game to WC in any game. If it was taking THAT long, people would start demanding the end date be extended, and they still do because player skill and need for speed varies widely: Some people can WC in 10 years, others aren't happy that the end date is too soon in CK.

 

[what am i doing]

As much as I would love to see anything or anyone challenge the monopoly Paradox has, this seems overly ambitious and the intended time span honestly makes me question the overall vision they have.

The time span doesn't worry me. "A million provinces" does. I mean, great if they make it work, but I have doubts. Even if they parallelize it really well, a high end cutting edge CPU with 128 logical cores is still only going to break it down to an equivalent of say, 7812 provinces per core? That's a lot, and most CPUs will have a much higher workload per core, so I expect either very rudimentary simulation (no pops) or low actual granularity. GPU compute would be a different story (way more cores) but that's not what they're using. I'm sure it will run much better than a Paradox game, but not as well as they are making it out to seem.

I remain tentatively optimistic, but I'm not pre-ordering or donating or anything, or even getting excited. Will see how it actually looks when it comes out.

 

[Trithne]

As much as I would love to see anything or anyone challenge the monopoly Paradox has, this seems overly ambitious and the intended time span honestly makes me question the overall vision they have.

The time span doesn't worry me. "A million provinces" does. I mean, great if they make it work, but I have doubts. Even if they parallelize it really well, a high end cutting edge CPU with 128 logical cores is still only going to break it down to an equivalent of say, 7812 provinces per core? That's a lot, and most CPUs will have a much higher workload per core, so I expect either very rudimentary simulation (no pops) or low actual granularity. GPU compute would be a different story (way more cores) but that's not what they're using. I'm sure it will run much better than a Paradox game, but not as well as they are making it out to seem.

I remain tentatively optimistic, but I'm not pre-ordering or donating or anything, or even getting excited. Will see how it actually looks when it comes out.

I don't think it's a million provinces. Their map is made of tiles. These tiles are mostly hexagons, with some pentagons thrown in, because the map is a sphere.

Provinces are likely made of many tiles, the tiles are for standardising movement.

 

[Malakal]

As much as I would love to see anything or anyone challenge the monopoly Paradox has, this seems overly ambitious and the intended time span honestly makes me question the overall vision they have.

The time span doesn't worry me. "A million provinces" does. I mean, great if they make it work, but I have doubts. Even if they parallelize it really well, a high end cutting edge CPU with 128 logical cores is still only going to break it down to an equivalent of say, 7812 provinces per core? That's a lot, and most CPUs will have a much higher workload per core, so I expect either very rudimentary simulation (no pops) or low actual granularity. GPU compute would be a different story (way more cores) but that's not what they're using. I'm sure it will run much better than a Paradox game, but not as well as they are making it out to seem.

I remain tentatively optimistic, but I'm not pre-ordering or donating or anything, or even getting excited. Will see how it actually looks when it comes out.

If they get an actual engine and not Paradox shit that cant use modern CPUs properly then it should not be an issue.