Fallout New Vegas: Weapons/Character Build Talk.

[DragoFireheart]

Note: This thread assumes you are playing on Very Hard and Hardcore mode is on. Mods and Unofficial patches are not included in my discussions.

One of the things I love about New Vegas is the sheer gun variety. Guns, Energy weapons, various CQC weapons, and explosives all make for a fun experience (even in the shit Gamebyro engine). VATs is tolerable and gives the game some strategic depth (even if it's not comparable to Fallout 1/2 targeting system).

Weapon Categories
==============

Spoiler

Energy Weapons: I've tested quite a few and most of the really good ones are laser weapons. Observe:

Spoiler

In case this video is later taken down: the regular Gatling Laser with the correct energy weapon perks and all of the mods can shred Deathclaws apart.

Note that most energy weapons are semi-automatic. Only a small handful are full auto. Something to keep in mind when picking traits.
Energy weapons tend to be superior to guns when handling heavily armored enemies.
My biggest gripe with Energy weapons is their durability. The break VERY quickly. Make sure you use Optimized ammo or you're going to be going through lots of Weapon Repair Kits. And hunting for the parts to make the kits is tedious and boring (pre-Dead Money).
One other note is the Pulse Gun. It deals heavy damage to robots and those Brotherhood scum. HOWEVER, the ammo type and weapon skill has no impact on this damage. Therefore, you can use bulk ammo and still deal the heavy damage with it. Very useful for Old World Blues DLC for any character.

Gun: Lots of fun choices, but most are usually inferior to their Energy weapon counter parts. The Riot Shotgun with the respective shotgun perks is terrifyingly powerful though. Also, there are quite a few stealth options while going with guns. Finally, guns tend to handle 0 DT enemies better than Energy Weapons do to JHP/HP rounds. Cazadores, Night Stalkers, and Tunnlers come to mind.

Explosives: Deals heavy damage, but bad to use if you are in something's face. I've also heard reports of a bug that causes the damage of explosive weapons to be 0. While I have not had this personally happen, it's something to be aware of. Fun to use, but I have found that I can deal far more damage with guns or energy weapons for a fraction of the weight, less perks, and don't have to worry about being up close.

Melee/Unarmed: Suicidal against Deathclaws and Cazadores. I've tried this and it's quite bad. You will die very quickly unless you burn lots of chems for these enemies. Melee/unarmed can do solid damage but the melee range is really bad considering the Damage Threshold System and how easy it is to lose health quickly to high-damage weapons. Could be useful if mixed with explosives though, but I wouldn't use any of these weapons beyond making some stealth kills.

Summary: Energy weapons are usually superior to Guns. If you don't like Energy weapons or Guns, do a mix of Explosives w/ Unarmed or Melee.

A fun aspect of New Vegas is making a character build to capitalize on the various weaponry. Some of the traits you take at the beginning of the game have a massive impact on how you'll handle your weapons. For example, Fast Shot is a great trait for semi-automatic weapons but is terrible for full-auto weapons. Contrast this with Triggered Discipline, which is amazing for Full auto weapons but makes semi-automatic weapons lack luster. Speaking of traits:

List of Traits
==============

Spoiler

Built to Destroy
+3% more Crits
Weapons lose condition 15% faster.
Thoughts: If you are going to be using a lot of weapons with high crit rates, like the various sniper rifles, A Light Shining in Darkness, or a vast majority of energy weapons (works well with laser weapons in particular) then this trait is for you. I personally hate this trait because I hate having to repair my weapons often. Taking this trait makes me 15% more OCD, but if you want more crits, take it and be ready to either hunt for scrap to make Weapon Repair Kits or do Dead Money so you can have an infinite amount. It goes without saying that this trait is worthless for explosive weapons. Note that weapons which are glitched to being indestructible from weapon mods (Holorifle for example), this trait is basically a free crit bonus for those weapons.


Fast Shot
20% faster rate of fire (for semi-automatic guns/energy weapons ONLY) and 20% less AP cost in VATS (guns and energy weapons)
20% less accuracy.
Thoughts: Do you love semi-automatic guns or energy weapons? Yes? Then take this trait. The increase rate of fire is amazing with the various accurate rifles in this game. The accuracy loss in real time is not very noticeable, but you'll have a shorter range in VATS. If you like VATS and you took this trait, I suggest getting Concentrated Fire: allows multiple headshots from a mile away. Also, make sure you take Commando/Gunslinger so you can have 95% accuracy in VATS. This trait is bad for full-auto weapons. They do not fire faster. The increase speed in firing speed affects only semi-automatic fire. Needless to say, good luck hitting anything with full-auto weapons with this trait.


Four Eyes
+2 Perception while wearing glasses
-1 to base Perception
Thoughts: This trait is ass, don't take it,


Good Natured
+5 to Speech, Medicine, Repair, Barter, and Science
-5 to Guns, Energy Weapons, Melee, Unarmed, and Explosives
Thoughts: Ah, one of the skill traits. Good if you want an early game boost if you plan on only using one weapon skill and you're really indecisive about traits. There are better choices, but if you are not sure about what traits you like and don't want one with game-changing disadvantages, take this.


Heavy Handed
Melee and unarmed do 20% more damage.
Melee and unarmed crits do 60% less damage.
Thoughts: if you are going to make an explosives character with 1 Luck and want to use melee/unarmed weapons with no or little crit damage as a backup like the Chainsaw, take this trait. Otherwise, it's trash, don't touch it.


Kamikaze
+10 AP
-2 DT
Thoughts: This trait is somewhat underwhelming. The disadvantage isn't horrible (-2 Damage Threshold is barely noticeable) but the advantage will, at best, enable another shot in VATS. For a VATS build, it's a decent choice.

Loose Cannon
Attack speed with thrown weapons (and lauchers, like the Fatman or Grenade Lauchers) increased by 30% and AP cost reduced by 30%
25% less "throw" range.
Thoughts: Probably a bad idea to use this trait with the Splash Damage perk and the Fatman mini nuke launcher. Probably. However, it's a good trait to take if you are using lots of explosive weapons. Just be wary of the damage if you take the Splash Damage perk.


Small Frame
+1 to Agility
25% extra limb damage to yourself.
Thoughts: If you want to save yourself an extra SPECIAL point from somewhere, take this trait. The downside can be really annoying on Hardcore mode though. Personally, I avoid this trait.


Trigger Discipline
+20% accuracy (guns and energy weapons)
-20% firing speed (for semi-automatic guns/energy weapons ONLY) and +20%AP cost in VATS (guns and energy weapons)
Thoughts: Do you like full auto weapons? Then take this trait. The full-auto weapons do NOT fire slower yet gain that much needed accuracy. In VATS, full-auto weapons tend to have a low AP cost, so the increase isn't that bad. The accuracy increase in VATS is HUGE and stacks with VATS perks like Commando and Sniper. Some weapons, like the Assault Carbine, can actually do some mid-range sniping. It's awesome like chocolate pudding awesome.


Wild Wasteland
Crazy Random stuff.
Can't get the YCS/186
Thoughts: If you want the YCS/186 Gauss Rifle, ignore this trait. Otherwise, go have fun with all the goofy crap this trait adds.


Claustrophobia
+1 to SPECIAL while outdoors.
-1 to SPECIAL while indoors.
Thoughts: This trait is ass, don't take it.


Early Bird
+2 to SPECIAL from 6am-12pm
-1 to SPECIAL from 6pm-6am
Thoughts: This trait is ass, don't take it.

Hoarder
+25 to carry limit
-1 to SPECIAL if carry weight is less than 160lbs.
Thoughts: This perk is great for energy weapons, explosives, or anyone that likes to carry a bunch of stuff. It's amazing in hardcore mode where ammo has weight. If you are doing hardcore mode with explosives or you just want the extra carry weight, take it and hoard stuff! Note that this trait plays well with heavy armor like Power Armor and heavy weappns.


Hot Blooded
+15% more damage to enemies when health is below 50%
-1 to Agility and Perception when health is below 50% health.
Thoughts: It's... meh. Only 15% more damage? I have to risk myself at half life for that boost. Blah. I'd avoid it.

Logan's Loophole
All consumables last twice as long and you can never be addicted to anything.
Level cap at 30.
Thoughts: Consumables:
Drugs, food, various things you can "eat", Stealth boys (LOL?), Stimpacks, etc.

This stupid trait breaks the game. By setting the level cap at 30, many enemies (especially in DLC) can't reach their higher-level tiers (which means better weapons and health). Meanwhile, you can abuse your infinite supply of steady from Dead Money and head shot things from a mile away. You can also abuse the hell out of turbo. Note that this stacks with other similar perks, like Chemist. Enjoy going on a drug filled rampage.

The REAL downside to this trait is you can only get one perk in GRX. BOOOOOOOOOOO!


Skilled
+5 to all skills
-10% to experience gain.
Thoughts: The OTHER skill trait. Oh noes, you get 10% less experience, boo hoo. I barely even noticed it. Meanwhile, you get a MASSIVE (yet spread out) skill boost to ALL of your skills. This makes doing quest early on easier (good for a newbie), this makes meeting those skill thresholds for perks easier (good for newbies), and the disadvantage is negated by playing the game. TAKE THIS TRAIT.


Newbie suggestion: If you are super OCD about traits or don't know what you want of what you want, take Skilled and Good Natured. The extra skill points make early on easier and the game mechanics aren't drastically changed compared to something like Logan's Loophole or Fast Shot.

===========================================================================

Those are just the traits I have tested. Firearms and other weapons would span much longer walls of text. It's probably better if i just answer specific questions if you have them (assuming of course you can tolerate the Gamebyro engine enough to play this game).

 

[2house2fly]

Skilled and Good Natured are absolute powerhouse traits and I have to force myself not to take them every time. I'm a bit obsessive-compulsive about experience and feel deflated when I hit the level cap in any game (I ended up finishing Fallout 3 with maybe half the map explored) so Skilled is right up my alley, though I enjoy New Vegas enough that I can actually power through that dissatisfaction.

I don't like Wild wasteland, outside of the encounter with the old ladies and the graffiti at Cottonwood Cove. The amount of goofy stuff in the base game is just fine by me.

I've never played on Hardcore yet, but I'm doing it soon. When I do I'll be taking Hoarder and probably Good Natured; Hoarder especially suits the way I play to a T. I took Logan's Loophole once, figuring I'd use drugs more without the spectre of addiction, but I never did; I have a bad habit of saving everything for some phantom future confrontation which will require everything I have, and in practice I just chug my entire stash at the Hoover dam finale.

do you have some recommendations for a Guns character? I've played with Melee/Unarmed and Energy Weapons for so long that going back to pistols and such will probably feel fresh and new again, but I'm not familiar with effective perks for that build. I'm pretty sure I can comfortably take my Perception down to one (the only Perception perk I'll really miss is Light Step) and put a decent amount of points in Endurance (so I don't die) Charisma (so my companions don't die) and Agility (so I get more VATS points and a natural early Guns boost). I'm planning on taking Cowboy to keep pistols viable and whatever the ammo-crafting one is called, but apart from that I'm pretty in the dark really.

 

[laclongquan]

Skilled AND Logan loophole are good for a prolong low level game. For extra length, I usually mod a slow levelup mod to ensure. Triple the xp requirement for each level should do the trick. And if you are near the limit, do the Old World Blues to replace LL with something like weapon traits.

small frame is good for a few useful achievements.

 

[uaciaut]

I'll be recommending cirosan's classic overhaul: http://ooccommunity.com/media/gamemods/cirosans-classic-overhaul/ for more options in terms of how you can build your char.

Direct link to readme of changes: http://ooccommunity.com/downloads/mods/CCO/CCO_Readme.pdf

 

[DragoFireheart]

do you have some recommendations for a Guns character? I've played with Melee/Unarmed and Energy Weapons for so long that going back to pistols and such will probably feel fresh and new again, but I'm not familiar with effective perks for that build. I'm pretty sure I can comfortably take my Perception down to one (the only Perception perk I'll really miss is Light Step) and put a decent amount of points in Endurance (so I don't die) Charisma (so my companions don't die) and Agility (so I get more VATS points and a natural early Guns boost). I'm planning on taking Cowboy to keep pistols viable and whatever the ammo-crafting one is called, but apart from that I'm pretty in the dark really.

Do you like Automatic weapons or Semi-automatic weapons?

Automatic weapons: Triggered Discipline.
Semi-automatic weapons: Fast Shot.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Redacted.

 

[Mastermind]

Melee/Unarmed: Suicidal against Deathclaws and Cazadores.

VATS
paralyzing palm

 

[DragoFireheart]

VATS
paralyzing palm

As long as you fight only one in a 1-on-1. Get swarmed and you're fucked.

Energy weapons and guns have superior alternatives.

 

[Mastermind]

Play a better game.

 

[2house2fly]

If you have Gun Runners Arsenal the best laser weapon is probably the unique recharger pistol, the MF Hyperbreeder Alpha, available from Cliff Briscoe in Novac. It shreds just about anything short of heavily-armoured targets, its main drawback being that it needs a few seconds to recharge when it runs out, which could leave you more vulnerable than the shorter reloading times other weapons have. There are weapons that do more damage per shot, but the Hyperbreeder fires fast (it's fully automatic) to the point that damage threshold barely matters.

 

[DragoFireheart]

If you have Gun Runners Arsenal the best laser weapon is probably the unique recharger pistol, the MF Hyperbreeder Alpha, available from Cliff Briscoe in Novac. It shreds just about anything short of heavily-armoured targets, its main drawback being that it needs a few seconds to recharge when it runs out, which could leave you more vulnerable than the shorter reloading times other weapons have. There are weapons that do more damage per shot, but the Hyperbreeder fires fast (it's fully automatic) to the point that damage threshold barely matters.

Yes. It makes playing a Energy Weapon build tolerable.

 

[DragoFireheart]

.357 Magnum Revolver

Spoiler

Handling Type: One-handed
Reload Type: Manual
Firing Type: Semi-automatic
Grunt/Cowboy/None: Cowboy

This revolver uses the .357 magnum rounds which are quite common (second only to 9mm rounds and 5.56mm rounds). The JSP .357 hand loader rounds are well balanced, giving 25% more damage and -3 DT. The revolver is one of the per-bullet reloading weapons where you must manually reload. Simply put, when you reload it you must watch your character put each bullet into the chamber. Ignoring the fact that this can leave you vulnerable to being attacked, there are also some glitches in VATS if you have to reload, ranging from a long delay to being frozen in place. As for the mods, one increases the weapon's durability and the other increase the damage by three. The Cowboy perk will also increase the damage by another 25% as the .357 Revolver is one of the "Cowboy" type weapons. In game mechanics terms, this weapon is considered a semi-automatic weapon (one bullet per trigger pull) which means Fast Shot can greatly increase the firing rate.

The .357 Revolver has a decent rate of fire and an acceptable aim-down sight. For an early game weapon, it's alright, but there exist superior choices, such as the 9mm Pistol or 9mm Sub-machine Gun.

The unique variant, Lucky, has a very large critical strike multiplier of 2.5. Scoring head-exploding shots is quite easy with enough Luck, some crit perks like Better Criticals, and a few well placed shots. If you decide to use this weapon, get accustomed to the reloading rate. Avoid having to reload in VATs and you should have fun playing cowboy. While I personally dislike manual reload weapons, Lucky is one of the few I would recommend as it can deal massive damage quite well.

I rate the regular revolver as 4/10 and Lucky as 6/10.

 

[Jick Magger]

Holorifle's also a really good energy weapon, though a bit boring. It alone makes Dead Money worth the trip.

 

[uaciaut]

If you have Gun Runners Arsenal the best laser weapon is probably the unique recharger pistol, the MF Hyperbreeder Alpha, available from Cliff Briscoe in Novac. It shreds just about anything short of heavily-armoured targets, its main drawback being that it needs a few seconds to recharge when it runs out, which could leave you more vulnerable than the shorter reloading times other weapons have. There are weapons that do more damage per shot, but the Hyperbreeder fires fast (it's fully automatic) to the point that damage threshold barely matters.

Yes. It makes playing a Energy Weapon build tolerable.

Tolerable? Elijah's advanced LAER and Sprtel-Wood are by far the best energy weapons in the game and potentially the best overall in their respective category, especially if you run max charge ammo and carry 20-30 WRK's with you. Cirosan's mod makes full energy char even better with the -DT perks which work incredibly well with said weapons. (and again i'd definitely recommend that mod for anyone that wants to do specialized build since it makes them even better while making all-around builds weaker).
The real disadvantage Energy weapons have is lack of diversity in terms of weapon types/what sort of shit you have to solve different situations with.

For guns, between Survivalists' Rifle, The Medicine stick and a modded AMR will solve any of your problems. I generally dislike fully automated guns for medium+ distances since their spread is a really big drawback so i generally stick to the first 2 weapons i mentioned.
At short distances SMG's melt through light armored foes, especially ones that move fast (see cazadors) while shotguns have more ammo options for heavier armored foes (especially if you get the shotgun surgeon perk).

 

[DragoFireheart]

Tolerable?

Yes, tolerable. Energy Weapons break very easily, especially the LAER weapons. They're powerful, but fragile. Also, the dust/goo piles they leave behind can lag your game.

 

[2house2fly]

You're not that likely to have to worry about leaving enough goo piles to lag your game, I think; I never noticed any lag on my Energy Weapons playthrough. Well, no more than my non-EW playthroughs. It's still a crappy engine.

It's true that they break easily though, especially LAERs. Elijah's advanced LAER is just too ridiculously fragile to use, and doesn't do enough damage that it's worth it to lug all the weapon repair kits you'd need around with you. As if just being a Pulse Gun with a laser rifle handle wasn't offputting enough.

 

[DragoFireheart]

You're not that likely to have to worry about leaving enough goo piles to lag your game, I think; I never noticed any lag on my Energy Weapons playthrough. Well, no more than my non-EW playthroughs. It's still a crappy engine.

The goo/ash piles are very bad in New Vegas. In the city areas, not out in the Wasteland. Regardless, I'm focusing my time on Guns since I find them more enjoyable.

 

[uaciaut]

Tolerable?

Yes, tolerable. Energy Weapons break very easily, especially the LAER weapons. They're powerful, but fragile. Also, the dust/goo piles they leave behind can lag your game.

You playing without dead money or something bud? Having wrk's not a problem where i come from.

And i'm running NV on a pretty shitty rig, goo piles left by energy weapons is the last reason to make my game lag.

Anyway, i'm not here to debate what's better or worse or to try to influence your preference, at the end of the day if it's guns you want to play then there's nothing to stop you, i do think they're far more versatile than energy weapons. But energy shit is far from not being viable and the game is very well designed (imo at least) in terms of overall weapon viability and how weapons function with ammo and how they interact with opponents gameplay-wise, compared to how shitty F3 did it.

 

[DragoFireheart]

You playing without dead money or something bud? Having wrk's not a problem where i come from.

WRK still have weight. And Dead Money isn't beaten as soon as I start a new game.

And i'm running NV on a pretty shitty rig, goo piles left by energy weapons is the last reason to make my game lag.

Anyway, i'm not here to debate what's better or worse or to try to influence your preference, at the end of the day if it's guns you want to play then there's nothing to stop you, i do think they're far more versatile than energy weapons. But energy shit is far from not being viable and the game is very well designed (imo at least) in terms of overall weapon viability and how weapons function with ammo and how they interact with opponents gameplay-wise, compared to how shitty F3 did it.

I never said Energy Weapons were not viable.

 

[DragoFireheart]

.44 magnum revolver

Spoiler

To reduce redundancy in retyping information, I'll be formating some common points about each weapon for quick viewing:

Handling Type: One-handed
Reload Type: Automatic
Firing Type: Semi-automatic
Grunt/Cowboy/None: Cowboy


The .44 Magnum Revolver is a medium power pistol that, despite it's appearance, is not manually reload. Your character will flip it open and reload quickly via speed-loader, which significantly reduces the time your are left vulnerable. The ammunition used, .44 magnum, are more rare than the .357 magnum but are also much more potent (Hand Loader rounds). The 44 magnum round, SWC hand loader rounds are fantastic, sporting a 20% damage increase and a -6 DT modifier. The hand loader rounds allow you to tackle enemies with higher DT such as Radscorpions without having to resort to a gun with armor-piercing rounds. Add in the fact that this gun is affected by the Cowboy perk (25% damage boost) and you have yourself a great side arm. Since the revolver is semi-automatic, it benefits from Fast Shot. If you want a weapon to supplement your sniping rifle or you enjoy western style weapons, this gun is for you.

The modifications are a durability mod and a scope mod. The scope is nice IMO but if you want a scope-less revolver it's fine to not apply it.

The unique variant, Mysterious Magnum, has a slightly cheaper cost in VATS, slightly more damage (6 points more), less durability (about 50% less durability), and no mods. It also makes a "wild west" noise whenever you draw it, which I find slightly annoying. I prefer the normal revolver due to the mods and higher durability.

I rate this revolver a 7/10 and the unique variant, Mysterious Magnum, a 6/10.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Update us more DragoFireheart

 

[2house2fly]

The noise the Mysterious Magnum makes when you draw/holster it is the Mysterious Stranger's theme music.

Trivia: JE Sawyer mentioned on Something Awful that they had planned, but didn't have time to properly code, a variation of the usual Mysterious Stranger encounters wherein if you fought the Lonesome drifter(implied to be the Mysterious Stranger's son) and triggered the Stranger's appearance he would kill you instead of the drifter.

 

[Yoshiyyahu]

If you stack up chem duration perks + Logan's Loophole, turbo will last long enough for you to punch groups of enemies to death, including deathclaws. You can simply wait until you are max level and then use the perk changer in OWB if you don't want to miss out on anything.

 

[uaciaut]

If you stack up chem duration perks + Logan's Loophole, turbo will last long enough for you to punch groups of enemies to death, including deathclaws. You can simply wait until you are max level and then use the perk changer in OWB if you don't want to miss out on anything.

P sure you can't get logan's loophole once you are over its' max level requirement with OWB auto-doc.

 

[Yoshiyyahu]

If you stack up chem duration perks + Logan's Loophole, turbo will last long enough for you to punch groups of enemies to death, including deathclaws. You can simply wait until you are max level and then use the perk changer in OWB if you don't want to miss out on anything.

P sure you can't get logan's loophole once you are over its' max level requirement with OWB auto-doc.

Worked for me awhile ago.