Crispy™ Fallout: let's grill this sacred brahmin

[ItsChon]

Name one.
FO simply has that certain "je ne sais quoi"; Call it soul, taste, style, 1+1=3, whatever, it's there. It's why the greats are the greats.

Baldur's Gate series and Underrail.

 

[Roguey]

I edited my post. The key thing about the Fallouts is that you can finish them with 0 kills in your counter.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Name them.

Underrail

Comparing FO to UR is a fool's errand. Opinion thoroughly discarded.

 

[Tigranes]

Name them.

Shouldn't have said many because there haven't been many isometric RPGs that have been released. Regardless, Underrail and the Baldur's Gate series are what immediately come to mind.

Neither BG nor the IE series in general features any significant usage of non-combat skills and interactions, C&C or nonlinear quest resolution. The core IE gameplay loop is quite different from FO1/2; it's very combat-heavy, involving plenty of fighting and looting interspersed by bits of talk. Baldur's Gate in fact reflects this most clearly, because it was originally developed as a real-time strategy game of sorts; and while BG2 adds all sorts of bells and whistles, its quest reactivity or noncombat skill usage remains highly limited.

Underrail was developed in many ways as a major callback to Fallout's design principles, and it is a rare product because it might actually be the first game developed by non-Fallout developers (i.e. not Arcanum) that recreates it so faithfully, while also being its own thing.

These really aren't great examples to show that Fallout does 'nothing special'. You're probably better off picking out individual parts of FO's design and showing why they are flawed, or why another game did it better, though that would be a different kind of debate.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

These really aren't great examples to show that Fallout does 'nothing special'. You're probably better off picking out individual parts of FO's design and showing why they are flawed, or why another game did it better, though that would be a different kind of debate.

Hint: companions

 

[Agame]

FO simply has that certain "je ne sais quoi"; Call it soul, taste, style, 1+1=3, whatever, it's there. It's why the greats are the greats.

This is a key factor many people seem to be entirely ignorant about. Much like great works of art and novels a game can be a masterpiece due to the sum of its many parts coming together, including undefinable characteristics as you mentioned (soul, taste, style), and even factors such as the time and place of creation. Combined they create something that is far greater than each individual part. This is generally created by having a visionary designer with full control, or in the case of Black Isle many talented designers all adding their special stuff to the mix.

I am not sure why this concept is so hard for people to understand, but the perfect example RE: Fallout is Underrail. Its a great game but it will NEVER be "better than Fallout" as I have seen others on this forum argue, it simply lacks so much in certain areas. Which is completely understandable considering it was mostly made by one guy. You can argue its combat is better than Fallout, and in a vacuum this is (probably) correct, but this is such a classic anal retentive focus that completely misses the bigger picture.

A game can be a good game, even a great game, but to achieve best game you need that special something that Fallout has.

Anyway, the simple fact that someone feels the need every week or two to create a thread telling us all how Fallout was actually a bad game reveals more about its legacy than any amount of writing about it.

 

[Jacob]

I talk the boss into killing himself without stealth. I simply kill all the hulk clones on the base and when I met their boss somehow there's a dialogue option to make him kill himself. Fuck off.

Indeed, it's one of the most strange parts of Fallout 3...

Do you even play Fallout 3? In Fallout 3 you kill black power armor guy, not hulk clones.

... Wait, why would anyone actually play Fallout 3.

 

[King Crispy]

Night Goat defected to Discord (lol the "Codex" version of Discord) a while ago and any time I ask him about coming back to Codex he and everyone else there, in unison and in perfect harmony, start chanting "FUCK CODEX". It's pretty weird.

Anyway I just had some awesome pizza from Mountain Mike's.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Master]

Can someone please explain to me what it is that Fallout does and why it does it better than any other RPG?

A game where the entire world is hypothetically open to you at the start with content gated by combat encounters, where you travel from social hub to social hub, talking to people at each of them, doing favors, using yer non-combat skills where applicable, and occasionally (but optionally) taking sidetrips to more combat- and/or exploration-oriented areas.

Jagged Alliance 2 *may* be better at most(all? ) of that. And even has the best combat to boot.

 

[Black Angel]

Can someone please explain to me what it is that Fallout does and why it does it better than any other RPG?

I haven't seen anybody mentioned it yet, so let me.

Do you know that feature when you play Fallout 1/2 where, if you right-click on objects on screen like NPCs and environment, you get to choose from a list what kind of interaction you want to do with them? That, is one of them. Not only does Fallout did it *best*, it's practically the ONLY RPG that did it as far as I know. I haven't tried playing any RPGs older than 1997, but from what RPGs I've played after 1997, like Arcanum, doesn't have that feature at all. Not even AoD and Underrail has it. Can you name an RPG that lets you choose whether you want to 'Interact', 'Look At', 'Use Item At', 'Push', 'Use Skill At', all from a single right-click on an object shown on screen? Because I'd like to try them, too.

To me, that feature is the single, most powerful driving force that made RPGs RPGs, especially Fallout in this case. It lets you, as the player, to command your character to interact with objects/NPCs on screen, and the output will be 100% determined by the character. It's even better since it's on top-down, isometric format (or whatever correct term you called it, I'm not exactly in the know). For example, as a player we see a plain wall, with whatever amount of details (and how detailed it is) that the devs can muster. We right-click on it and choose, 'Look At', and our character then look at the wall. And then, the descriptive text can either match what's being shown to players, or give some details that only our character can see, like if the wall has some stain on them or if it's just been recently cleaned.

The devs could be more creative with this, obviously, because despite of the staggering amount of options you already had in the official games, I feel like there could've been more. Like making Perception checks a thing for when you're using the 'Look At' option, and also make using the skills like 'Doctor', 'First Aid', etc etc more frequent. Fortunately, the TC mods for Fallout 2, which are Fallout 1.5: Resurrection, and especially Fallout of Nevada, used this feature to its fullest potential. The TC mods showcased that the engine is most probably THE best engine ever to make top-down, isometric cRPGs, solely because to the right-click feature, and the only thing they really need to improve/fix is the problem of non-combatants taking turns during combat (and thus, wasting the combatants's time).

 

[ColCol]

I think you're full of shit if you think codex has not shit on fallout on more than one occasion.

 

[Mustawd]

So like...is this ItsChon guy Crispy or something?

Cuz he seems like Crispy levels of retarded, but not as fun and interesting.

Name one.
FO simply has that certain "je ne sais quoi"; Call it soul, taste, style, 1+1=3, whatever, it's there. It's why the greats are the greats.

Baldur's Gate series

See what I mean?

Night Goat defected to Discord (lol the "Codex" version of Discord) a while ago and any time I ask him about coming back to Codex he and everyone else there, in unison and in perfect harmony, start chanting "FUCK CODEX". It's pretty weird.

Jeez I wonder why....oh right!!

www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?members/itschon.25449/

Newtards like this idiot are becoming more and more common. Along with that other moron mhfkefmkfmkf. You made a whole thread about the guy. Add to that the codex's idiotic stance on JRPGs that are tons more fun than some shitty copy of IE games. It's no wonder people just leave in disgust.

 

[Mustawd]

Night Goat defected to Discord (lol the "Codex" version of Discord) a while ago and any time I ask him about coming back to Codex he and everyone else there, in unison and in perfect harmony, start chanting "FUCK CODEX". It's pretty weird.

Anyway I just had some awesome pizza from Mountain Mike's.

Mountain Mike's is garbage.

 

[Darth Canoli]

[bla bla bla]
"Fallout 1 fans ate my lunch"
"Fallout 1 fans bullied me as a child"
"I touch myself playing Fallout 3"

Again ?
What the hell is wrong with you morons people ?
Is there a sub-forum somewhere in the codex, named the shitdex where you coordinate to create a new "let's trash fallout when we're bored" thread every 2 or 3 weeks ?

Is it a rite of passage to enter the shit-posters club ?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

So like...is this ItsChon guy Crispy or something?

Cuz he seems like Crispy levels of retarded, but not as fun and interesting.

Name one.
FO simply has that certain "je ne sais quoi"; Call it soul, taste, style, 1+1=3, whatever, it's there. It's why the greats are the greats.

Baldur's Gate series

See what I mean?

Night Goat defected to Discord (lol the "Codex" version of Discord) a while ago and any time I ask him about coming back to Codex he and everyone else there, in unison and in perfect harmony, start chanting "FUCK CODEX". It's pretty weird.

Jeez I wonder why....oh right!!

www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?members/itschon.25449/

Newtards like this idiot are becoming more and more common. Along with that other moron mhfkefmkfmkf. You made a whole thread about the guy. Add to that the codex's idiotic stance on JRPGs that are tons more fun than some shitty copy of IE games. It's no wonder people just leave in disgust.

Jrpgs aren't rpgs

 

[Bocian]

boomer gamers

Whoever uses this retarded meme, no matter if seriously or not, should be flogged.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Fallout 1/2 where, if you right-click on objects on screen like NPCs and environment

This is without a doubt a mayor shining point, always loved how you can get descriptions of pretty much everything on screen. I have long since given up on any game doing it like that instead of a few "hotspots" here and there.

 

[a Goat]

Is there a sub-forum somewhere in the codex, named the shitdex where you coordinate to create a new "let's trash fallout when we're bored" thread every 2 or 3 weeks ?

 

[ItsChon]

Why is it that it's always the most bitch made Codexers that try to talk shit?

So like...is this ItsChon guy Crispy or something?

Cuz he seems like Crispy levels of retarded, but not as fun and interesting.

See what I mean?

Jeez I wonder why....oh right!!

www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?members/itschon.25449/

Newtards like this idiot are becoming more and more common. Along with that other moron mhfkefmkfmkf. You made a whole thread about the guy. Add to that the codex's idiotic stance on JRPGs that are tons more fun than some shitty copy of IE games. It's no wonder people just leave in disgust.

You sure talk a lot for a little bitch that had to self-eject because he couldn't properly prioritize his life. When you get drunk, you think about the Codex for some retarded reason. When I get drunk, I'm looking through bitch's instas to get my dick wet. If only you took people trashing your shit life as up the ass as you do people talking bad about a fucking video game. Maybe than you wouldn't be such an abject failure.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Codexers, and boomer gamers in general, have a real problem with sacred cows: things that formed such a S.P.E.C.I.A.L. part of their idealized childhoods that they can never be criticized. And one of the greatest of these is Fallout. These manchildren scream and cry about Bethesda raping this treasured classic by making games that millions of people enjoy instead of an exclusive club of neckbeards, but anyone who first plays the original Fallout as an adult will realize something: it just isn't that good.

Let's start with the setting: it's completely unremarkable. There was a nuclear war, now everywhere is a desert and there's raiders and mutants and all that other shit you've seen before. Oh, but this time there's le retro future aesthetic! Whatever, that's barely there in the older games despite being the one thing Bethesda really latched on to. They also chose the worst possible time for their post-apocalypse. A post-apoc setting should either have it so recently in the past that there are still people who lived through it and can talk about the world that was and what they lost when it ended, or so distant that the pre-war world has an air of mystery to it. Fallout is set just late enough that everyone grew up in a shitty wasteland, but not so late that going into the ruins of the old world has an exploring the unknown feel to it.

"Oh," you're saying. "You're just a STORYFAG who actually cares about setting and shit instead of playing just to watch things get hit and numbers come out of them." Well, the combat in Fallout is a dog's breakfast. Turn based combat (and that's a subject for another rant) only works at all when you've got multi-character parties. In a single-character game, it means a whole lot of waiting for all the shitty scorpions or whatever to make their agonizingly slow moves before you can have any input again. The only reason anyone thinks Fallout's combat is good is that they played it when they were 13 and thought the death animations were super kewl.

"B-b-but", you're saying, with an increasingly flustered expression. "The real strength of Fallout is that it gives you so many different ways to approach problems!". Well, yeah. You can sneak around enemies and never fight anyone...if you're a faggot. You can talk the final boss into killing himself...again, if you're a faggot. But let's be real. The Chad goes in guns blazing, the virgin fucks around with stealth and shit because he thinks it means he's smarter than the people who play games to, you know, have fun.

So, yeah. You're frothing with rage right now because your worldview has been shattered by someone telling you that something you like isn't as good as you think it is. Like and subscribe and maybe if you're lucky I'll do more of these in the future.

3/10

I got a chuckle.

 

[Roguey]

Can someone please explain to me what it is that Fallout does and why it does it better than any other RPG?

A game where the entire world is hypothetically open to you at the start with content gated by combat encounters, where you travel from social hub to social hub, talking to people at each of them, doing favors, using yer non-combat skills where applicable, and occasionally (but optionally) taking sidetrips to more combat- and/or exploration-oriented areas.

Jagged Alliance 2 *may* be better at most(all? ) of that. And even has the best combat to boot.

JA2 requires you to liberate the towns with combat first.

This is without a doubt a mayor shining point, always loved how you can get descriptions of pretty much everything on screen. I have long since given up on any game doing it like that instead of a few "hotspots" here and there.

Have you tried the Stygian demo?

 

[Cael]

Do you know that feature when you play Fallout 1/2 where, if you right-click on objects on screen like NPCs and environment, you get to choose from a list what kind of interaction you want to do with them? That, is one of them. Not only does Fallout did it *best*, it's practically the ONLY RPG that did it as far as I know.

Let me introduce you to an entire series called Quest for Glory...

 

[Bocian]

Night Goat defected to Discord (lol the "Codex" version of Discord) a while ago and any time I ask him about coming back to Codex he and everyone else there, in unison and in perfect harmony, start chanting "FUCK CODEX". It's pretty weird.

Together with pathetic squealing that every successful person is responsible for his failures in life, and that introducing socialism is the only way to fix it. If we ignore the buzzing, the fly might just go away.

 

[Black Angel]

This is without a doubt a mayor shining point, always loved how you can get descriptions of pretty much everything on screen. I have long since given up on any game doing it like that instead of a few "hotspots" here and there.

Have you tried the Stygian demo?

You can right-click on objects on screen and choose from a list what kind of interaction you want to do with said object? If yes, that's nice. I'm already looking forward to Stygian, too.

Let me introduce you to an entire series called Quest for Glory...

I've eyed this series before, gonna add it to my backlog.