Incline Elminage Gothic (former Japan only dungeon crawler)

[Celerity]

So after much getting rekt I beat the tutorial, aka main game. I promptly enter post game, fully expecting I'll get rekt immediately. It's actually easier? Wtf.

It probably helps my Hunter finally got a decent weapon. Polyette's Holy Bow or some shit, from a spider chick on the last floor. So he's not hitting for 50 while everyone else does 200-500.

PS: Brawler was ahead on damage the entire game until I put a godly spear and some offhand thing beginning with a C on the Valk, now she is slightly ahead of dual Death Arming action. Only slightly.

 

[Dorarnae]

those death arm <3. that chain saw sound hehe. sadly on the psp version this is pretty much their best weapon I think. on the 3ds they had some other option in the post game.

the first few floor of the first post game dungeon aren't that bad, but don't worry you'll eventually get rekt.

 

[Celerity]

I completely lost my shit when I heard that sound. I got one from a random drop before I got one from an event so...

This is really the best weapon? I figured there'd be plenty of postgame shit. Well, I'll keep looking.

 

[railway]

The deed is done. Incarnation has been deincarnated, it is now an ex incarnation, &c.

EG is definately among the best games I played in years.
Wizardry is my favourite RPG series - although from what I can tell contrary to most in this thread I like Wiz 6-8 the most. I don't own any consoles or speak Japanese, so I haven't played a single Japanese Wizardry (clone) before. EG scratched an itch no recent Western RPG could satisfy. The codexers ignoring this game because it's from Japan are really missing out.

For me the heart and soul of any dungeon crawler - more important even than party progression, itemization and enemies - are the dungeons themselves and they're simply terriffic here. Almost every dungeon has a unique style and layout making for diverse exploration. Most late game dungeons introduce some kind of new gimmick to shake things up; some can be a bit hit-or-miss depending on your personal tastes (I don't really like "teleport dungeons" f.ex.) but I really appreciate the developers trying new things.
The one dungeon I did not like at all was the very first one and, unless I'm alone with this, I can see it hurting the game/driving off newcomers to the genre. It just has too much random, one-tile corridors making it hard to navigate. Now that alone doesn't have to be bad but the pretty straight-forward and bland cave theme makes it also quite boring. The second dungeon, although another cave again, is already much better with more open areas, secret doors and an underwater section. Not to mention the many tombs and mansions with a more logical layout.
The ingame map system doesn't really help much either, judging from the many discussions about it on the steam forums and elsewhere and they are kind of pointless. At the start I wasn't feeling like drawing my own maps like in days of yore but I soon changed my decision and I'm glad I did as it makes this kind of games just so much better and more fun. The way ingame mapping is implemented is still a bit weird: maps are a consumable item getting used up everytime one looks at it. However maps are dirt cheap (only limited inventory space preventing them becoming a non-issue) and goblin map + repair spell make it even more ridiculous. After an hour of spelunking the map system loses any challenge it might have had and instead becomes boring, pointless micro-management.
The beginning almost seems to be a you-must-be-this-big-to-play gate deliberately designed to weed out "casuals".

Anyway, the game really takes off from the 2nd dungeon onward. If I had to write a top list of video game dungeons the Egyptian tomb would certainly get into it. Great layout, puzzles, enemies, just all around incredibly fun to explore.
Ice caves, underground church (despite its teleporting bits), mansion, that last regular dungeon and the cave of the ancient are almost as good.

Ibag Tower was an amazing ending point due to its insane difficulty alone but in retrospect I think it was a bit lacking in the enviromental dangers department. The difficulty almost exclusively come from ridiculously strong monsters but the developers missed the chance to make the tower itself dangerous as well. Blocking the teleport spell is a step in the right direction but I was really expecting to run into all the traps and gimmicks I saw in prior dungeons - only all at once now. There is no ice, no lava, no underwater passages, no teleporter, almost no secret areas, only one or two floors have trap doors and floor spikes, only one floor has no-magic zones and they're completely optional I think (or do you find the last tablet in one of them? I can't remember), you can just walk around one of the two dark areas and the other one's a one tile wide corridor.

Party progression is good, too. Just as you'd expect it to be in a Wizardry clone, I'd say. Most of it very standard stuff. Still I haven't really played with summoners much and definately want to try this some more now that I'm finished. Reading about them now it feels like I missed a big part of the game or at least a big part of what makes the game stand out mechanically from other PC blobbers.
Thankfully there's very little grinding involved. I expected the worst from a JRPG dungeon crawler. I stayed a little while longer to gain a few levels in places where I spotted enemies that go down fast and grant much XP but nothing excessive. Except for Ibag Tower I didn't actually have to grind at all (still I guess it could have made some areas easier if I had).

Itemization is good enough. It's also pretty standard stuff, I think. Don't have much to say about it.

Not that important but graphics are good for what is. "Anime levels" are pleasently low and many monsters look fantastic and weird in a good way.
Speaking of monsters, I like how they force you to be constantly on your toes. Even the weaker enemies you fought a thousand times can be very deadly when taken too lightly.

The port is all right, I didn't have any technical problems at all. If it weren't for those terrible console menus - however there is working mouse support - I wouldn't have realized I'm playing a port at all.

Not surprisingly story is not the reason you would want to play EG. It's generic and just an excuse to get you going. Translation of the little story there is gets a bit sloppy towards the end with half of a sentence still being Japanese sometimes. Some of the text is rather cryptic, too. No idea if that's the way it is in Japan as well or if it's an awkward translation.
The important bits, i.e. menus, mechanics, &c, are fine anyway. Only most of the spells have seemingly made up names. No idea if these have any meaning in Japanese or if it's just random for the heck of it? You can change the names manually in the settings, though (or just get used to it).

So yeah, if you like Wizardry and dungeon crawlers in general and Wizardry 1-5 in particular, go and play this while you wait for Grimoire.

 

[aweigh]

Celerity

Death Arm is by no means the best weapon though it is an end-game weapon for sure, especially if you equip it on a Devilish character so you don't have to uncurse them. Dual-wielding Death Arms guarantees solid end-game damage coupled w/ stacked -2 AC from each one, for a total of -4 AC.

However in terms of DPS or what have you:

- Inside Ibag's Tower you will find 1 or 2 cursed Knuckle-type weapons for your Brawler which deal way more DPS than a Death Arm.

- In the Cave of the Ancients and inside Ibag's Tower you will find so many crazy hammers, swords, bows, spears, katanas, shuriken-type weapons and as previously mentioned, 1 or 2 knuckle-type weapons and you will also find inside Ibag's Tower end-game Boomerangs (2x Obsidian Boomerangs make your Thief very happy).

- This is supposed to be a "secret" but whatever: Inside the Cave of the Ancients there is a secret room accessible through a secret door that houses a secret NPC that sells you the Philosopher's Stone; the Philosopher's Stone is a Long-range weapon that deals damage comparative to a Death Arm but lacks the AC modifiers and guess what? It can be equipped by any Race, and it can be equipped by any Class.

- It costs 1 million GP to buy one. If you lose it you can buy another one, but you can only have one at a time. My alchemist made excellent use of it.

- Now for the nitty-gritty details of what the real best end-game weaponry you will find: inside Ibag's Tower expect to find a ton of unbelievably good Bows; a ton of unbelievably good Hammers; a ton of unbelievably good 2H and 1H Swords; a ton of unbelievably good Spears.

- Yes, for whatever reason, spears and bows get the most love inside Ibag's Tower.

- Oh, and get ready to rage like a motherfucker when you find Golden weaponry, such as the Golden Axe. Those are only usable by "innocent" Fighters and the like, and they have the best stats in terms of raw DPS.

 

[Courtier]

The deed is done.

AN INVISIBLE CHOIR SINGS, AND YOU ARE BATHED IN RADIANCE . . . THE VOICE OF ANDREW GREENBERG RINGS OUT:

''CONGRATULATIONS, MORTAL!''
''IN HONOR OF THY EFFORTS, I GRANT THEE THE GIFT OF MANY BROS AND LARGE GAINS''

=== YOU ASCEND TO THE STATUS OF WIZARDRY GRANDMASTER ===

 

[aweigh]

railway

what was your Incarnation-slaughtering end-game party like? Spill the beans! Stats/classes/items/etc.

:D

Courtier

same question to you! btw, did you ever get around to sending me the save-games? I've been playing Elminage: Original the entire past week and having a lot of fun with my new party:

1x pure Samurai
1x Ninja (previously my Alchemist)
1x Fighter (previously my Mage)

1x pure Thief to take advtange of all the awesome shit a high-level Thief can steal in Original
1x Alchemist (previously my Priest)
1x pure Bishop

 

[Dorarnae]

I completely lost my shit when I heard that sound. I got one from a random drop before I got one from an event so...

This is really the best weapon? I figured there'd be plenty of postgame shit. Well, I'll keep looking.

for brawler that is. there are stonger one I think but they're all two hand.
valkyrie is probably the class that get the strongest weapon in this game, the blue gate or something spear is so freaking strong. I kinda like it because most of the time it was always the samurai with the muramasa...

 

[Courtier]

You got em last friday

Fighter->Lord
Thief->Ninja
Brawler (monster adventurer)
Fighter (Pure)
Bard->Mage->Alch->Cleric->Summoner (monster adventurer)
Mage->Bishop

Bunch of experimental dudes, monster adventurers, retired old guys (e.g. Lv 157 Alchemist for forging) snoozing and boozing back at tavern

Used combination of equipment with the highest resistances, all smithed to provide immunity (as close to 100% as I could get) to as many elements as possible. Most damage came from the Fighter using two Godslayer spears, and the Summoner's 4500HP Stargazer who attacked four times per turn. Brawler and Ninja with ridiculous class AC bonus acted as tanks to body block for the mages with defend command, Lord and two casters provided healing and spells

 

[railway]

My main party consists of
a pure Valkyrie
Fighter -> Lord
Fighter -> Samurai
Thief -> Hunter
Alchemist -> Mage
Cleric -> Bishop

Items somewhat similiar to Courtier with a focus to as much immunity as possible. For the last fight I switched some equipment to deal as much sleep effects as possible.

I've been playing Elminage: Original the entire past week

I think I read, in this thread or another, that Elminage Original has been released to PC, is that right? If it is, is there a translation into English?

and the Summoner's 4500HP Stargazer who attacked four times per turn.

Now I definately want to play with a summoner a bit more. Stargazers were some of the most dangerous foes for my party. Deadlier than many actually stronger enemies. Sometimes they even got the first action when I ambushed them.

 

[Courtier]

It has, but that is only recently and Japanese-only. It was released and localized into English on psp and later ported to PS Vita. Brother aweigh is playing it on the ppsspp emulator, I have it on a cracked psp and also bought the Vita version

 

[aweigh]

something just came to mind: can a summoner poke-catch a mirror-image party member enemy?

 

[Celerity]

So... what prevents me from buying one of those Philosophers' Stones, dropping it, buying another, repeat... then buy them all back from the junk guy?

 

[Dorarnae]

something just came to mind: can a summoner poke-catch a mirror-image party member enemy?

I don't think because the resistance to summoning on your character is 100%

 

[aweigh]

absolutely nothing at all, and in fact you can equip a philosopher's stone on a Ninja Clone (ninja-only ex-skill Replicate, which is only attainable if you manage to roll a Ninja from the beginning; and/or hex-edit your save game to change the character's ex-skill to Replicate) and then get the ninja clone "killed", go buy another Philosopher's stone, and re-summon your Ninja Clone and voila: 2 active Philosopher's Stones.

the thing is the Philosopher Stone is a great weapon but it is only "great" because it can be used by any race, any gender and any Class. What does that mean? It means that it is the only Long-range weapon that deals good damage and it can also be enchanted and most importantly of all: it can be equipped by Alchemists, Mages, Summoners, Servants, Shamans and Bishops.

So for those type of characters it becomes a god-send. For every other character class they have a ton of weapons to pick from so they don't need a Philosopher's Stone.

but to answer your question directly I have never actually done this but I don't see why there would be a problem dropping the Stone and then going to one of the Junk-sellers in a dungeon and buying shit off them until the Stone is sold back to you. There's no in-game reason why that isn't possible.

I've never bothered doing anything like that because as I mentioned, it is a fantastic weapon for the classes which don't get access to great weaponry that allows them to fight from Long-range.

You'll probably have your martial-type characters utilizing either end-game Bows or end-game Spears or end-game Katanas/bladed-weapons by the time you're knee-deep in Ibag's Tower, with your Bishop or whatever using a Stone. I've never, ever used a Brawler (still haven't) but I remember selling a ton of Brawler-type weapons with amazing stats on them while doing Ibag's Tower; and dude, I left that playthrough hanging at floor #10 of the Tower, so I don't even know the full extent of weaponry you'll be getting on the rest of the 10 floors that I've yet to finish.

 

[Mustawd]

It has, but that is only recently and Japanese-only. It was released and localized into English on psp and later ported to PS Vita. Brother aweigh is playing it on the ppsspp emulator, I have it on a cracked psp and also bought the Vita version

aweigh, you need to translate E:O for the PC.

 

[aweigh]

Mustawd

two months ago I would've said "Absolutely!". unfortunately the realities of translation have set in and quite simply Elminage games are too big. Right now I'm just concentrating on finishing Empire 1 for PC. I no longer hold fantasies in my head about translating a bunch of games as those months I spent doing the grunt work finishing Empire 1, of which very little is left to translate, really, really took a toll on my body.

i gained a bunch of weight (more than I already had before beginning to tackle game translation) and I had to make a hard choice: my body or translation games. I want to finish Empire 1 and, as always, am awaiting help from MrRichard999 and Helly in order to get the remaining dialog translated so I can edit it in and finish the game; but afterwards I'm going to think long and hard about whether I want to start doing grunt work on any game project; I need to take care of my body first and foremost.

Some may have the discipline to work, come home and eat healthily and do a bit of translating then workout and keep in shape, sleep, and repeat it all over again forever and ever. I do not. I am an obsessive person and obsessing over Empire 1 made me gain about 20 pounds.

 

[Zurat-Yarkuch]

two months ago I would've said "Absolutely!". unfortunately the realities of translation have set in and quite simply Elminage games are too big. Right now I'm just concentrating on finishing Empire 1 for PC. I no longer hold fantasies in my head about translating a bunch of games as those months I spent doing the grunt work finishing Empire 1, of which very little is left to translate, really, really took a toll on my body.

i gained a bunch of weight (more than I already had before beginning to tackle game translation) and I had to make a hard choice: my body or translation games. I want to finish Empire 1 and, as always, am awaiting help from MrRichard999 and Helly in order to get the remaining dialog translated so I can edit it in and finish the game; but afterwards I'm going to think long and hard about whether I want to start doing grunt work on any game project; I need to take care of my body first and foremost.

Some may have the discipline to work, come home and eat healthily and do a bit of translating then workout and keep in shape, sleep, and repeat it all over again forever and ever. I do not. I am an obsessive person and obsessing over Empire 1 made me gain about 20 pounds.

You need to look after yourself first and foremost. Translating a game seems like a full time job and that is way too much stress and work to put on yourself for no pay.

Maybe it would be better to see if a small publisher like Ghostlight would be interested in contracting you to help release it or something. I'm sure how the rights issues would work out since I am not a lawyer or anything but it can't hurt to ask around.

 

[Zurat-Yarkuch]

So right now my party consists of

Lord (spend a long time rerolling till I got 37 bonus points)
Valkyrie
Priest
Hunter
Bishop
Alchemist

So I got to the third floor of the first dungeon. Was getting extremely lucky with my attack rolls and fighting lots of monsters that gave tons of experience for my party. Got to the hole in wall monsters were coming out of examined it and got the investigation done. But on my magic map I spotted a red jewel thing and thought I should check it out. Maybe it's some extra treasure or something.

In the door before the room containing the red jewel there is text warning about blood and chunks strewn about the place. Don't pay it any attention. Think it is just more flavor text setting the atmosphere, like all those other text warnings. Enter room with red shadow thing hopping around. Decide to fight it.

Start fighting a white pray mantis insect thing. It is hidden so I can't attack it. Decide to defend and wait till I discover it. Immediately launches a surprise attack that delivers 100+ damage to all my character in the front row killing them instantly. Try running away, but white mantis instant kills my back row on the next turn.

Party annihilated. All my progress and experience lost.

Fuuuuck

 

[Damned Registrations]

Ugh, that shit is what put me off of playing Generation Xth or whatever it was- fucking deathtrap rooms without any warning or way to escape. Basically just a massive punishment for actually exploring the levels.

 

[Shackleton]

Ugh, that shit is what put me off of playing Generation Xth or whatever it was- fucking deathtrap rooms without any warning or way to escape. Basically just a massive punishment for actually exploring the levels.

But this is not true in this case. (And frankly I don't remember it being true in XTH either, but nm.)

In the door before the room containing the red jewel there is text warning about blood and chunks strewn about the place. Don't pay it any attention.

Enter room with red shadow thing hopping around. Decide to fight it.

And far be it from me to criticise a fellow E:Gothic fan, but if you are not saving before you decide to attack a red shadow thing, then you deserve party wipe. Gothic lets you save anywhere and you are are not some filthy casual if you do so, you are being prudent. This is a game that likes to kick you in the teeth and behead you for good measure on normal enemies, never mind 'red shadow' mobs.

 

[Zurat-Yarkuch]

How does saving in Dungeons work? I've only ever saved on the world map menu.

When you load it does it let you continue right from where you have saved or does it start you back at the beginning of the dungeon?

 

[Shackleton]

How does saving in Dungeons work? I've only ever saved on the world map menu.

When you load it does it let you continue right from where you have saved or does it start you back at the beginning of the dungeon?

Yes, I wondered if you might not have twigged onto the saving system. It's a bit unintuitive I must admit. The saving part is easy, just hit 'start' (or whichever key you use if you use M/K, escape I think by default), and select 'Adventure Records'. Select the slot and you're done. Loading, on the other hand is a bit less straightforward. When you load a save with the party in a dungeon, you always start at the town screen with an empty party slot. You need to go the world map and hit the key that moves right through the tabs and you'll see a option for 'Party 1'. When you select that it'll ask you if you want to 'restart' with that party, but it doesn't mean 'restart', it means 'continue'. Some time will pass for the party, but they'll be where you left them.

I'm now pretty impressed you made it almost through Dungeon 1 without any saving, but I can assure you you won't want to carry on like that!

 

[Courtier]

Ugh, that shit is what put me off of playing Generation Xth or whatever it was- fucking deathtrap rooms without any warning or way to escape. Basically just a massive punishment for actually exploring the levels.

I have never seen what you describe in the original or Vita remake, maybe because you made it up

 

[Emmanuel2]

I'm now pretty impressed you made it almost through Dungeon 1 without any saving, but I can assure you you won't want to carry on like that!

I can attest to that. Made it to the underground Church without saving in the dungeon feeling pretty confident then breathing Frost Giants, turn-1 full party paralysis, anti-magic zone with 6 ninjas that can behead/charm/confuse/sleep twice in an attack, doom, bugged level drains, self destruct, ninjas, death spell spam, and ninjas happened.

Now I worship the save-anywhere function of Gothic and do it every two or three fights. Never had as much fun dying and that sense of triumph in a game before, and I played DS1 SL1 / KH2FM Critical L1.