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Dungeon Siege - How the hell was this ever popular?

markec

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1. Another Obsidian fan mentioned people being angry about DS3 on Obsidian forums just a few posts ago, so I guess there were some fans of it (answer for non-retards: both DS1 and 2 were pretty well-received games).

Oblivion and Fallout 3 were also well received, and I bet there were Bethesda fans crying on Obsidian forums how New Vegas sucks compared to F3.

2. I'm not a DS fan, I just happen to think that DS2 is a really decent game as far as h'n's games go.

Thanks for clearing this up. Back to reality: taking the context (h'n's genre) into consideration, DS2 definitely isn't a mediocre game. It had quite a lot of stuff that made it stand out compared to other h'n's games, DS1 included.

I agree that DS2 is a decent game compared to other h'n's, but thats due vast majority of them being shit and not with DS2 being a good game, but thats my opinion.

DS1 is a total piece of shit with no redeeming qualities, well to be fair graphics and some music is nice.

Not a single thing that made DS2 stand out is there in DS3.

True, but DS3 have few things that it does better then DS2, but the core gameplay is still similar.

Because some people who care deeply for certain developers making overrated games say so. I'm against infecting PC gaming with consolitis, even if it's about franchises I care for even less than DS.

If you came and said something in line:

"I like DS2, I think its a one of better games in its genre. It had lots of neat ideas but third game became a console focused game with little in common with its predecessors. People should criticize Obsidian more for deviating so far from first two games."

I would say its fair, and although I dont share your love to DS games I understand your point.


But what you did was:

OMG DS3 IS A RAPE EXACTLY THE SAME AS WHAT BETHESDA DID WITH FALLOUT 3!!! WHY ARENT YOU ALL ENRAGED WITH THIS HORRIFYING TRAGEDY!!! YOU DAMN MCA COCKSUCKERS YOU WOULD FORGIVE HIM ANYTHING!!!

On that I say thats pretty stupid.


There are too many great franchises ruined for many reasons, "consolitis" being just one of them. Im still heartbroken by Master of Orion 3, Lords of Realm 3, Simon the Sorcerer 3 and many more. There are other users here who share my sentiment for decline of many franchises, so excuse us for not wanting to also care about some shit tier franchise.
 

Duraframe300

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Played through DS3 twice, controls were a fuckin abortion for m&k its true, but got use to em. Extremely fuckin linear but fair amount o choice an consequence in it, went wi golden child (Azunai?) an did what he hinted at one playthrough, next played ruthless power hungry bastard an did exact opposite. Too much fucking handholding, as wi all modern games it treated you like a retard, insultin if thy asks me, even a glowin trail tellin thee where to go when theres only one path open. Good gameplay, you're really involved in fights an they're fairly ard, you're AI companion aint brilliant but dunt get in way an is useful for takin some heat an providin a buff or whatever. End reflects all your choices, an you'll have different ending screens dependin on what you done.

Expansion were what all game shoulda been like, i'd actually call that good rather than mediocre.

All told I thought it were an alright game, mediocre but fun time waster, i'd value it at about ten to fifteen quid. Huge step up from original, but not really same kind o game. Pretty if graphcs are your thing an some good scrappin to be had, nice monster design an all. Also Obsidian made dull as fuckin disco original DS world into someat interestin, dint think that could be done so props to em. Better gameplay an narrative than that latest Diablo if thy asks me.

:bro:
 

Baron Dupek

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So I'm the only one here who played PSP version called Throne of Agony? Which was also the only PSP game that I finished because only good games on this handheld are tactical turn-based games (RPG or not) and dung crawlers that need 100+h to finish.

First DS that introduce gameplay, it's like average action RPG from PS2 era.
Compared to DS3 it have better balanced difficulty and more than serviceable control (when lot of PSP titles fail here, thanks to only one controller stick). Where AI companion have decent behavior and don't act like retards.
One thing that bothered me was performance. It runs in ~23FPS at best, loadings take some time (like Underrail in that aspect before recent patch).

That remind me of DS2: Broken World, where you find merchant of "rare goods" who ask you (in the game, with full voiceacting, mind you) for "secret codes from DS Throne of Agony for Sony PSP" in exchange for decent weapons/armors.
I'm dead serious.
edit
kZclmby.jpg

DS2 Borked World is bad but this thing...it's a cherry on the top.
 
Last edited:

abnaxus

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Broken World was shite, but that new Elven waifu was alright addition

TJUhfq4.png


Getting called out by DS1/2 fans for consolization, is it possible to sink any lower?
 

Turok

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So, I was playing Dungeon Siege today and it's just so bad...

Yeah, I get it graphics were good for the time, the world is huge and continuous, without a single loading screen, and you get a rather large party... but that's really enough to get so much positive press & fanboys, TO THIS DAY?

Exploration and story are non-existent. The whole world is a linear corridor, with bullshit reasons for you to ALWAYS take the long route around and explore pointless dungeons - "oh, the bridge is down, only way to reach town is through crypt!" or "oh, the gate is broken, only way to reach next town is through spider dungeon!". Characters are so generic and featureless you can actually kill your main character and keep playing, because not even the game cares.

On that note, character customization is null - you just give characters a bow, a melee weapon or spell and they'll gain skills & attributes by use. That's about all you'll do, as armor and equipment are just linear "replace 22 defense Leather Armor for 23 defense Mail Armor".

Combat is even worse. Not only you fight 98403284092809482309480394 billion copies of the same enemies, but your characters fight mostly by themselves. They get near an enemy, melee & ranged will attack while healers will heal and all will be auto-solved easily.

Seriously, the entire game is: walk down linear path, find enemy, watch party fight enemy, order them to loot everything, walk a bit more down the linear path, rinse and repeat...

Now look at this:

RV3Mfu3.jpg


This shit came around the time of Diablo II, Neverwinter Nights, Morrowind, Gothic 1 & 2, Arx Fatalis, Arcanum, Wizardry 8, Icewind Dale 2, BG2, etc... how the fuck did it not only get so much positive press and fan ratings, but also two sequels?

Fuck, even Ross's Game Dungeon did a video PRAISING this aberration as a "fantastic experience":



All I can think of are edgy "cause casuals want a game with fancy graphics that autoplays" remarks or something about Microsoft's aggressive marketing and Chris Taylor's name in the box... maybe a few mods like the Ultima remakes... but even so... WTF is going on here Codex?



Microsoft put too much money on the press, i think they give this game free for a lot of ppl, i remember when i come out that it really pissed me, was too bad, i try to play it but was too bad for my taste.
 

Zombra

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In case it's relevant: didn't read thread.

I remember DS appeared just about during the time when I had enough games in my life that I didn't need to play absolutely every CRPG any more. A good buddy of mine renamed this game "Kansas Siege", in reference to the flat dullness of the linear experience. "Walk forward, fight stuff, whatever", just like living in Kansas.

He loaned it to me and I got as far as character creation and maybe 10 steps beyond before deciding I just didn't need another RPG that bad.
 

Mexi

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I absolutely loved both games. They're just mindless hack-n-slash fun. The reviewer is absolutely spot-on. The ass-kicking just never ends. Also, back in 2012, I was 12 years old, and the graphics were just amazing. I was rather impressed that my shitty computer back then was able to play this game without any issues. It's crazy just how optimized that game was. I had a very basic fucking computer. This was like my first ever computer, and it ran Dungeon Siege like a dream.

Dungeon Siege: 2 was definitely better, though. Only bad thing was that it restricts you from recruiting a lot of characters unless you beat it on normal or something. Then you can replay the game and have as many characters as you want. Only problem is that it's only worth 1 playthrough.
 

GrainWetski

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And still the 3rd game manages to be the worst one by a wide margin because it's one of the shittiest games in the genre(along with being a shitty console abomination). Really says a lot that people that defend it around here. You really don't have to defend everything Obsidian shits out.
 

Tigranes

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And still the 3rd game manages to be the worst one by a wide margin because it's one of the shittiest games in the genre(along with being a shitty console abomination). Really says a lot that people that defend it around here. You really don't have to defend everything Obsidian shits out.

DS1 is one of the very few games that I can 'defend' DS3 against.
 

Filthy Sauce

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FUCK. after all this talk and Ross's video....I had to go find and installed my old DS2 + BW cds. Have a few days off from work. Someone kill me before its too late.
 

kangaroodev

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FUCK. after all this talk and Ross's video....I had to go find and installed my old DS2 + BW cds
Pretty much the same here, but DS1 instead of 2. The feel of the game is just great, I also started it... again. I'll take Ross's advice and just go melee with every character, see how it goes, hopefully it won't get boring again. Last time I played for like 13 hours but I just couldn't finish it out of boredom and deleted it, but nostalgia got me.
 

Zombra

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FUCK. after all this talk and Ross's video....I had to go find and installed my old DS2 + BW cds. Have a few days off from work. Someone kill me before its too late.
FUCK. after all this talk and Ross's video....I had to go find and installed my old DS2 + BW cds
Pretty much the same here, but DS1 instead of 2. The feel of the game is just great, I also started it... again. I'll take Ross's advice and just go melee with every character, see how it goes, hopefully it won't get boring again. Last time I played for like 13 hours but I just couldn't finish it out of boredom and deleted it, but nostalgia got me.
If you guys are going to reinstall an old game just because someone mentioned it, do yourselves a favor and make it Bloodlines instead.
 

kangaroodev

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To be honest another reason is because of nostalgia, I got the demo like more than a decade ago from one of those PC magazines, and played it several times. But hell yeah I'm gonna play Bloodlines too.
 
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And it didn't even fail that badly. All of Obsidian's games made their money back - they went under because they were around at the worst possible time for relying on external publishing, where you could make your budget back and still be forced to close shop because you couldn't get funding for your next project. They didn't help things with their release bugs, and some less-than-stellar market thinking (who was PoE supposed to appeal to? surely it should have been obvious that a DnD module wouldn't be sufficient to bring out the depth of the system/engine? was it really wise to make 3 very different games with completely different engines/tech, instead of each project building upon the last?), but 10 years earlier or later they would have had enough margin for error to get away with it.

Don't get your point here. If anything, the comparison makes it obvious how much harder Troika had it compared to Obsidian, and how bad a marketing decision ToEE was (considering this involved a new engine, new adaptation of DnD, new systems, and good ones at that):
- Obsidian is enjoying the best era for getting published that mid-sized studios have had since the early 90s. Not just Kickstarter (though the effect it's had on publisher's willingness to tackle niche games probably outweighs its direct contribution), but Steam and digital distribution. Troika had to get their games on fucking retail shop shelves, meaning you could get shut out in a way that modern companies can't fathom. Obsidian did make it through that era too - I'll give them that. But they did so by making some commercially smart, far less ambitious, decisions - they leaned on their industry connections to do the sequels for well-established games over and over and over again, and made 'meat and potatoes' main games while leaving the interesting/risky stuff for expansions.
- How is PoE a DnD module? Whatever its flaws, it is anything but a ToEE style module - it's an attempt at a full world ala BG1/2, exactly what the people buying ToEE were expecting. It may stumble in executing that goal, but that's the polar opposite of ToEE, which executes a disappointingly narrow (to people expecting a traditional crpg world, not a module) goal superbly.
- Yes, Obsidian didn't get much mileage out of its engine. Put some of that down to bad timing - an engine now, at the turn of the tech cycle, would have been a better move. But that's far from typical of their strategy. If anything, they've been incredibly conservative in their development, e.g.:
  • KoTOR2 - existing engine, established property;
  • NWN2 - existing (troublesome) engine, established property; 3 major DLC/expansions to get as much $$$ out of their initial investment as possible;
  • FO:NV - existing engine, established property; fuckloads of expansion-type DLC to get as much $$$ out of their initial investment as possible;
  • PoE - modified (Ok, we'll call this a 'new' engine, in that it's got the standard amount of work for a new crpg) engine; 2 expansions, probably with other DLC in the future, likely sequel using slightly modified version of same engine.

Can't get much more different from Troika's '3 games, 3 engines, minimal cross-over of systems/design, no expansions'.

In fact, laying it out like that has made me slightly less sympathetic to Troika, as it shows how much room there was for them to improve the business side of things without greatly sacrificing the quality of their work - good artists should be able to work to commercial realities.
 

Infinitron

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nealiios linked to this on his blog: http://www.gamestm.co.uk/features/behind-the-scenes-of-dungeon-siege/

Behind the scenes of Dungeon Siege
Nowadays you can’t swing a +3 long sword of discombobulation without hitting an action RPG. Representing part of a crucial middle step between the RPGs of old (or should that be olde) and the energetic extravaganzas of today, games™ discovers the origins of this first story of Ehb…

By the late Nineties, PC RPGs, despite remaining popular, had not broken into the console market, with game pads often in particular considered inadequate for the complex controls required. Gamers were changing, however; the visceral, instant thrills of PlayStation 2 and Xbox software were infecting the PC world. Naturally, there would still be plenty of scope for complex simulations and in-depth strategy titles; but it was clear there was room for something else. Something less intense. Something more exciting. Something instantly accessible, that didn’t require the assimilation of a complex set of rules just to avoid getting decapitated by the first wandering monster you bumped into.


In 1997, Cavedog Entertainment released Total Annihilation, an RTS game that swiftly became a hit among critics and fans. Designed by Chris Taylor [see games™ 132], Total Annihilation shrugged off its ‘Command & Conquer clone’ tag, presenting a significantly upgraded approach to the genre. However, with Cavedog understandably keen to maximise its profits from the game, Taylor decided to do what he had already considered prior to joining the developer, and form his own studio: Gas Powered Games. “We wanted to try our hand at something different,” he begins, “And although this logic is probably confounding today, as developers often stick to a single genre, back then it wasn’t a strange thing to do.”

After finishing Total Annihilation, Taylor had already begun brainstorming his next project with the idea to do something ‘really fun and interesting’. As early as April 1998 ideas for games were being discussed with friends at his house; by May, Gas Powered Games had been formed and a few months later, offices were acquired. Given Taylor had just started this new company, Dungeon Siege’s team unsurprisingly began small. “But by the end we had well over 40 people,” he says, “although the average was probably closer to 30 throughout development.” Many of the team had worked with Taylor on Total Annihilation, including Jeremy Soule, the man responsible for its outstanding and imperious score.

In terms of influences, there are several for Dungeon Siege. Even its creator would admit it’s not the most original game in the world. But Taylor cites one in particular. “I would name Diablo as the single biggest influence. I loved that game but I found it had so many quirks, especially the long loading times. So I wanted to make something that would fully-immerse the player into the world.” Taylor admits that many other RPGs of the time such as Baldur’s Gate: Dark Alliance and the latter Ultima games all entered into the mix. Neal Hallford, who worked with Cavedog on the aborted fantasy adventure Elysium, got to know Chris Taylor as his office was adjacent to Elysium designer John Cutter’s.


“I seem to recall helping brush up a description of Total Annihilation for the marketing department,” recalls Hallford, “But that game was all Chris really. I then heard about Dungeon Siege when he started Gas Powered Games and he asked me if I might be willing to help with the story.” Hallford concurs with Taylor and names Diablo as the single biggest influence on Dungeon Siege. “Diablo definitely had the greatest bearing. He wanted a game that concentrated on action and about having an experience that you could just pick up and play writemyessayservice.co.uk without spending 20 hours researching character classes, which was something Diablo really streamlined.”

Dungeon Siege took this further, allowing the player to simply select a character type before jumping into the game and developing their class as they progressed. “I think it was a very revolutionary idea, for the time,” confirms Hallford, “but then Dungeon Siege was one of the most unusual gigs I’ve ever worked on.” Normally the experienced designer would work with a blank canvas for his world and a license to create whatever he wanted. “With Dungeon Siege, however, Chris contacted me once the project was already well under way, and he by then had a few stakes set in the ground.” Taylor had already created much of the Kingdom of Ehb, where the action would take place, and the enemies, the Seck. “He also knew where it was going to start and end,” continues Hallford, “but beyond that he just had a sequence of events with monsters and items. What he didn’t have, was a why.” These questions included why were these bad things happening, and who were the Seck?

Dungeon Siege had a technical basis and a skeleton of a story, but no meat and bones. “So I sat down and threaded the levels together,” says Hallford, “with a story that made sense, creating dialogues, backgrounds and backed it all up with a huge world bible that provided all the rationales for how the world was.” In some ways, Hallford’s imagination ran a little over, creating more backstory than the player would ever be able to digest. But it all added depth to the game, and gave players a richer experience. “All the hard work and heavy lifting was Neal,” says Taylor. “I had some specific ideas about the origin of the story and world – Neal worked with these ideas and developed the entire fictional universe from that. It was fun for me to come up with names and places and then watch him masterfully weave those into the fiction.”


On the technical side, Dungeon Siege would use its own bespoke engine. “It was different back then,” says Taylor, “as most developers would create their own engine. Even though we might have been able to modify a first-person shooter engine, we were fairly certain that we couldn’t do the things we wanted to do with the continuously streaming world if we didn’t develop our own engine.” The continuous streaming that Taylor mentions remains something of a novelty even today, and proved to be the biggest single stumbling block in Dungeon Siege’s development.

“It was node-based technology – meaning that the entire world was built out of building blocks that would all fit together,” explains Taylor. The effect was a complete lack of loading screens and transitions as the player explored Ehb – walls of buildings and caves would simply melt away when the player entered them, creating a seamless playing experience, unseen at the time. “We ran into all kinds of crazy problems with it… But in the end we got it all sorted out and it worked beautifully. And even better, we created these impossible worlds to allow the player to teleport from one place to another, because you could attach and sort-of loop these nodes together. It was like we created five dimensional space.”

Hallford recalls, “One of the things I loved and respected about Chris is that he’s a hard-core techhead. He’s always about advancing the technology under the hood as well as making a game that’s fun to play. Dungeon Siege was no exception, and the first time he showed me the game with no level loads, my jaw hit the floor; it was absolutely incredible, one big, beautiful, seamless experience.” Another ground-breaking implementation was the extreme zoom in (and above) option that permitted the player to really feel they were stepping into the action. “I’m a big fan of that, and this was essential for not only allowing the player to zoom in and see the detail, but also zoom out to survey the battle when multiple characters were slugging it out.” notes Taylor. However, given the concept and style of play, a larger party of directly player-controlled characters was soon abandoned. “As much as I am influenced by other games, I take pride in doing it differently. We always took a look at competitor’s games and asked ourselves what we like about them, but in the end we wanted to create our own experience.”


Dungeon Siege was intended, from the start, to take the RPG formula and distil it into a pure adrenalin action fest. Taylor says, “I wanted more action and automation of the boring parts. It’s arguable that I took this too far, but that was our focus all along,” and Hallford endorses this. “Chris’s argument was that gamers don’t generally read what they’re shown and he wanted it to be quick-quick-quick. It’s then a matter of matching the narrative style to the play style, and I think for Dungeon Siege it was the right move.” For the background story, Hallford drew from the dark and gritty world that Taylor and his colleagues had begun to create. “So for inspiration I turned to the master of gritty, military fantasy, Glen Cook,” he explains. “There’s a lot of Cook’s feel in Dungeon Siege, especially if you get down to the substrata of the world history I created.” Hallford also drew on the legends of the Romans stranded in Britain after the retreat of their empire. “It’s a theme that comes up in a lot of my work, the idea of a civilisation that gets left behind, and that’s the same with the Kingdom of Ehb. It’s the leftover from the recession of a great empire known as the Kingdom of the Stars.”

The small size of Gas Powered Games proved to be a double-edge sword. “We absolutely benefitted from being able to make decisions quicker,” recalls Taylor. “But the flip side was that we overstretched ourselves in every way. The engine, the size of the world, the huge amount of content. We worked almost every single day for the entire development and often 12-14 hours a day at that. Looking back, it was totally insane.” Part of the team’s ambition was the massive amount of content they were attempting to cram into Dungeon Siege. Taylor continues, “We had to develop a way to automatically test all this content because there was no way we would ever have enough testers available to us. These would run for days, sending scripted characters through the world, hacking and slashing everything they could find. It was actually hilarious to watch the screen as these robots ran at high speed, emulating the player.” Amusement aside, the testing and issues with the engine would be the main reason why Dungeon Siege took so long to deliver. “It was a little more than four years in development,” says Taylor painfully.

Surprisingly, despite the long working hours and the close proximity of the team, people issues, while a natural part of the process, were no better or worse on Dungeon Siege. This was due in no small part to Taylor’s trust in the people he employed, as Hallford recalls. “I have to say Chris left me pretty much alone to do my thing after having told me up front what he wanted. He trusted me and that’s a real rarity in the industry. Unsurprisingly, the games I’ve been most acclaimed for are the ones where the bosses got out of my way and let me do what I’m best at. Chris understood that.” Another example of this trust was with Dungeon Siege’s evocative music from composer Jeremy Soule. “My trust with Jeremy was pretty high after we had such a great time working on Total Annihilation,” smiles Taylor, “And I knew he knew what he was doing. When I first heard the music I was thrilled.”


Chris Taylor and his team were pleased with their results, but as always with game development, there were things that didn’t quite go to plan. “We were never completely satisfied with the AI,” he muses. “As it was always a lot dumber than I wanted it to be.” Given the fast pace that Taylor always had in mind for Dungeon Siege, this was a key element. “We were very mindful of making the AI too smart, because then the game plays very differently, has a slower pace and appeals to a different audience.” Traditional RPGs such as Baldur’s Gate often relied upon drawing out enemies, or taking them out one-by-one, a tactic that, like Taylor says, slows down the pace of the game. But the one omission he truly regrets is the absence of general purpose teleporters: “We just couldn’t find a way to create them. We had our cool fixed portals, but couldn’t drop those dynamically into the world. It bugged me a lot, and I think the game suffered because of it.” Certainly anyone who has spent a length of time trooping around Ehb, may agree. “We just ran out of time.” says Taylor, sadly.

Of course, by now the Gas Powered Games chief had already secured a publisher in fledgling PC games producer Microsoft. “It was weird as I didn’t expect such a positive reaction and most publishers liked the idea and wanted to publish the game,” he says modestly. “But in the end I chose Microsoft because Ed Fries personally reached out to me and told me how excited they were to expand into the PC games business.” Strangely, considering the role Microsoft had to play in Dungeon Siege, an Xbox version never saw the light of day. “I do recall a discussion on it but it never went far,” says Taylor. “I think the game was just too huge for consoles back then. And today it’s different, but back then there was doubt about the audience as well.” Upon release, Dungeon Siege was a decent hit although as Taylor knowingly concedes, “Games back then needed to sell much more than million copies to make it an interesting business. We only barely crossed the interesting line.”

Designer Neal Hallford had plenty of confidence prior to release. “Between all the technical innovations, mechanics and amazing graphics, it was just a hell of a lot of fun to play. And also, because it opened up the toolset, it kept the player base very invested in expanding and extending the life of the product.” Like Total Annihilation before it, Taylor insisted on ensuring a modification community would build up around Dungeon Siege like it had his hit RTS game. “I’ve always been a huge supporter of the modding community, and we spent a fortune in development to get those tools and the documentation created.”


Ultimately, given the ambition of the project and how different it was to be running his own studio, Taylor concedes he learned much from the development of Dungeon Siege. “I have mostly good memories, and yes, I learned a lot. Some of it was about software development and some of it was on managing teams and working with a publisher. I also learned a lot about tax planning, banking and legal, more than I ever would as a pure game developer.” After the success of Total Annihilation, Taylor’s decision to leave and set up a new company may have seemed foolhardy, yet it paid off. “My advice is, if you are thinking about starting your own company to design your ultimate game, then do it!” he grins, although not without a caveat. “But before you do, work inside a company for ten years or so to learn as much as you can first. I wouldn’t have survived without the knowledge I learned at Electronic Arts and Humongous Entertainment or Cavedog.” For Hallford, the importance of Dungeon Siege can never be overstated given the way it pushed technological boundaries and set new standards for what people could expect from an RPG experience.

“It really was a game-changer in terms of all the things it achieved technically and mechanically and was the first game I worked on that sold more than a million copies. I still have the golden plaque that I received from Gas Powered Games hanging in my office. I’m really proud to have had my part in making it happen.”
 

kangaroodev

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Awesome article, the game isn't perfect but I'll always remember it's atmosphere, great music and world building even if it's linear. I'm playing it from time to time now, keeping in mind that I should just enjoy the mindless slashing in it, still enjoyable for me. For that time it was very impressive especially because of the engine.
 

Mr. Pink

Travelling Gourmand, Crab Specialist
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
3,044
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
two words:

CHICKEN GUN

I loved the multiplayer in Dungeon Seige. The utrean campaign was way more interesting than the single player one, since it was mostly open world.

Overrated by casuals, since it's babbys first arpg with good art direction and strong campaign.

Combat is shallow, game is easy as hell (multiplayer campaign can be tough though)

I don't think it's a bad game though.
 
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Mr. Pink

Travelling Gourmand, Crab Specialist
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
3,044
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I hated ds2 because of the lack of variation of settings. No goblin techno lairs, no mines, no swamps, not very many dungeons. Just three flavors: desert, jungle and snow.
 
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
795
Also, because I'm an asshole, here's a quote from Chris Taylor in 2003:

Some people have criticized us of that, but those are the hardcore gamers – the people who love to micromanage things. What we tried to do was appeal to all nationalities and market to the Asia-Pacific rim, to Europe, the US. To sell to men and women, young kids (we had to change some things to get a Teen rating) as well as appeal to people who are older and just want to sit back and have fun.

So we really wanted to make a game that appealed to a wide audience, because that’s what determines the success of a game. For example, look at The Sims or Rollercoaster Tycoon. Any game that expects to sell 2, 3, or 4 million units has to appeal to a wide variety of people.

I mean, how can you feel bad if you entertain millions of people? That’s what keeps us in business.

Says someone not in business anymore. He took the path of making forgettable games for people who don't care about gaming, then got surprised when there was no devout fan-based to fund his Kickstarter...

His studio got bought by the world of tanks, so he is in business.

Looking at his wikipedia it seems he basically worked on Total Annihilation, Dungeon Siege and Supreme Commander. Some Space Siege and Demigod shit in between. That's not really portfolio of some horrible sellout who betrayed hardcore gamers. "Siege" games aside (and even those have some fans) those are some beloved strategy games. Need I remind that before KS our savior Fargo was producing such hits as Hunted Demon Forge and Choplifter HD?

I am pretty sure his kickstarter failed not because of some shitty games he made in the past but instead of tapping into nostalgia he tried to do something weird and his pitch was shit. I bet if he said "NEW TOTAL ANNIHILATION FROM THE CREATOR OF TOTAL ANNIHILATION!!!!!1", he would get his money. In fact, that's more or less what some other guys did and they got funded.

Look at Schafer, even after being exposed as a fraud in his 1st Kickstarter he still got funded, because Le Psychonauts 2.
Sid Meier was saying the same damn things. This is nothing new. I listened to 2010 spech where he basically destroys all old games and essentially says what Chris says, but convincingly, equating hardcore things to math and micromanagement and randomness-all of which he felt were trumped by instead understanding player psychology-and as result doing away with.

Here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY7aRJE-oOY

When you sum it up, he says he's making better games, not games for everybody. And yet the irony is he's essentialy making for everybody. He thinks he discovered the secret in player psychology.
 
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