Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Developer Story Time with Old Man Davis

ksaun

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
111
Location
Beyond Beyond the Beyond
Anthony, I recently read this trenches story over at penny arcade

Anonymous
I am the “truly insufferable co-worker” from this post:
http://trenchescomic.com/tales/post/you-are-not-your-fucking-bugcount
The title was Neverwinter Nights 2. The licensed property was Dungeons and Dragons.
The original poster’s portrayal of me is a little misguided: I never cared about my bug count. I’ve been a D&D geek for sometime, and I owned all the books…and yes, even brought them to work. I’d been a weekly GM for years, and loved the Forgotten Realms universe and story.
However, I never cared about my bug count. I didn’t care how many bugs I submitted. All I cared about was how good a game we made. I loved Dungeons and Dragons so much, I wanted the game to be perfect.
As a QA Tester, bugs were the only voice I had: I tried to use that voice to make the game better.
If the poster had ever talked to me, he’d have known how passionate about the game I was. If being passionate about Dungeons and Dragons is a crime, color me guilty and proud of it.
He only saw my bug count as a chore I inflicted…I saw them as the only way I could help him develop the game.

How was the QA situation back then at Obsidian? And what are the Pro's/Con's of having such to the source-material dedicated QA testers?


Having passionate team members is generally a good thing. It can be problematic if QA testers aren't aware of what sorts of bugs the team would find most useful -- this can be caused by a communication breakdown, which happens too easily in any team effort, especially large, complicated ones like most video games.

As for Obsidian's QA -- the QA teams on Mask of the Betrayer and Storm of Zehir were fantastic. They played a big part in those games reaching the quality they did. And like every department on the games, they were few in number and had to work hard. Even so, many QA members made time to also aid in various design aspects in meaningful ways -- mastery of the source material was certainly valuable in these cases.

(Sorry to crash your thread, Anthony! (And "hi," by the way! =) ))
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
Anthony, I recently read this trenches story over at penny arcade

Anonymous
I am the “truly insufferable co-worker” from this post:
http://trenchescomic.com/tales/post/you-are-not-your-fucking-bugcount
The title was Neverwinter Nights 2. The licensed property was Dungeons and Dragons.
The original poster’s portrayal of me is a little misguided: I never cared about my bug count. I’ve been a D&D geek for sometime, and I owned all the books…and yes, even brought them to work. I’d been a weekly GM for years, and loved the Forgotten Realms universe and story.
However, I never cared about my bug count. I didn’t care how many bugs I submitted. All I cared about was how good a game we made. I loved Dungeons and Dragons so much, I wanted the game to be perfect.
As a QA Tester, bugs were the only voice I had: I tried to use that voice to make the game better.
If the poster had ever talked to me, he’d have known how passionate about the game I was. If being passionate about Dungeons and Dragons is a crime, color me guilty and proud of it.
He only saw my bug count as a chore I inflicted…I saw them as the only way I could help him develop the game.

How was the QA situation back then at Obsidian? And what are the Pro's/Con's of having such to the source-material dedicated QA testers?


Having passionate team members is generally a good thing. It can be problematic if QA testers aren't aware of what sorts of bugs the team would find most useful -- this can be caused by a communication breakdown, which happens too easily in any team effort, especially large, complicated ones like most video games.

As for Obsidian's QA -- the QA teams on Mask of the Betrayer and Storm of Zehir were fantastic. They played a big part in those games reaching the quality they did. And like every department on the games, they were few in number and had to work hard. Even so, many QA members made time to also aid in various design aspects in meaningful ways -- mastery of the source material was certainly valuable in these cases.

(Sorry to crash your thread, Anthony! (And "hi," by the way! =) ))

You are always welcome Kevin. This is Kevin, right?
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
You are always welcome Kevin. This is Kevin, right?


Yes, it's me. Thanks! =)
(Say, I've been waiting for you to tell a particular KotOR 2 anecdote... ;) )
Tell us yourself. :bounce:
It's not as he has a monopoly on stories, and with 2 devs the thread will be more alive.

It involves one of the times i famously lost my temper. i lost me temper BAD... maybe three or four times that's can remember while at Obsidian.

This is only my side of the story, there is without a doubt more to it.

We were getting down to the wire, we had all been working hard and putting in long hours. I was tasked with scripting on one of Kevin's areas in Nar Shada. After putting my head down and going full speed for about 4 or 5 days on it, I hit a stumbling block. i went to ask Kevin what to do. he was currently working on another area with Adam Brennecke. I walked in and asked him what to about X (I honestly can't even remember the details now of the problem). Kevin got a quizzical look on his face and said that area had been cut last week.

I redlined almost immediately and started yelling at Kevin and everyone. I mean yelling LOUD, in a work environment. Adam was laughing, and Kevin, to his credit, got back up in my face. Ohh it was bad and now, it's embarrassing.

In the aftermath, I never found out who screwed up (besides me losing my professional bearing). Kevin was ordered to cut the area But no one had told me and no one had removed it from my task list. Kevin did not set my tasks, so it wasn't his fault.

This is where good producers are really important FYI. We had good producers, but we didn't have enough of them for KOTOR2.

Anyway, I eventually apologized for being a jerk and losing my temper, and Kevin graciously accepted my apology.

Kevin's version of the story is probably a lot more interesting, one, he has a better mind for the details that would make it more interesting, two, he's got designer and writing skills so,he can embellish and be more colorful, and three, he was more calm during the exchange than I was.

Ugh, so embarrassing.
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
Kevin actually wrote the official KOTOR2 post mortem that was published in Game Developer. Maybe if you guys are nice Kevin will post it here, or links to it.
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
I also agree with Kevin that MoTB and SoZ were two of my favorite projects, especially considering how rough NWN2 was.

Just good solid teams.
 

ksaun

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
111
Location
Beyond Beyond the Beyond
You are always welcome Kevin. This is Kevin, right?


Yes, it's me. Thanks! =)
(Say, I've been waiting for you to tell a particular KotOR 2 anecdote... ;) )
Tell us yourself. :bounce:
It's not as he has a monopoly on stories, and with 2 devs the thread will be more alive.


Well, I wanted to leave it open for Anthony to tell whichever KotOR2 anecdote he thought made the best untold story. =) But the one he told is one of the more memorable ones involving the two of us.

You're being too hard on yourself, Anthony (as usual =) ). It was just one of our bonding experiences in the trenches.

Yeah, pretty much Anthony was pretty unhappy about having wasted a bunch of time fixing content that had been on the cutting board. It was a very stressful time and we were working long hours to fix and polish as much as we could. I remember the miscommunication more as having been my fault, actually (or at least feeling guilty about it), with me triaging the area because it had too many tricky bugs in it and we wouldn't have time to fix them all. And then not remembering to let you know about it. Maybe Chris Parker or another producer took responsibility for it so that you wouldn't hate me. ;) But in any case, I'm cool if you don't blame me for it. =) I don't remember all of the details of everything we had going on.

Kevin actually wrote the official KOTOR2 post mortem that was published in Game Developer. Maybe if you guys are nice Kevin will post it here, or links to it.
(I don't think I have the rights to post it -- it'd be owned by Game Developer magazine.)
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
You are always welcome Kevin. This is Kevin, right?


Yes, it's me. Thanks! =)
(Say, I've been waiting for you to tell a particular KotOR 2 anecdote... ;) )
Tell us yourself. :bounce:
It's not as he has a monopoly on stories, and with 2 devs the thread will be more alive.


Well, I wanted to leave it open for Anthony to tell whichever KotOR2 anecdote he thought made the best untold story. =) But the one he told is one of the more memorable ones involving the two of us.

You're being too hard on yourself, Anthony (as usual =) ). It was just one of our bonding experiences in the trenches.

Yeah, pretty much Anthony was pretty unhappy about having wasted a bunch of time fixing content that had been on the cutting board. It was a very stressful time and we were working long hours to fix and polish as much as we could. I remember the miscommunication more as having been my fault, actually (or at least feeling guilty about it), with me triaging the area because it had too many tricky bugs in it and we wouldn't have time to fix them all. And then not remembering to let you know about it. Maybe Chris Parker or another producer took responsibility for it so that you wouldn't hate me. ;) But in any case, I'm cool if you don't blame me for it. =) I don't remember all of the details of everything we had going on.

Kevin actually wrote the official KOTOR2 post mortem that was published in Game Developer. Maybe if you guys are nice Kevin will post it here, or links to it.
(I don't think I have the rights to post it -- it'd be owned by Game Developer magazine.)

Hahaha, was that not the anecdote you were thinking of? There were tons of anecdotes we could tell. I remember your secret chess mastery. So Kevin had setup a chess board in one of the common areas. Anyone who wanted to play could play, and Kevin would just play them. So I was like hey, I played a ton of battlechess, sure lets play.

First game lasted all of... 6? Moves. Maybe that much. Kevin utterly destroyed me.

Alright, I thought to myself, stop jerking around and play for real.

Second game, I used to spend a ton of timeon each move. Thinking, plotting, stewing. Finally I would make my move. Sometime later, Kevin would just stroll by, sipping coffee or something, and would glance at the board and make his move almost without stopping his stride.

Destroyed me again in like... 20 moves.

I think he was also playing John Morgan at the same time too. Destroying him too I might add.

Now I'm pissed off (in a jokingly fashion) and I confront Kevin about what kind of garbage is this! Kevin sort of sheepishly confesses that he's some sort of ranked chess champion! I don't remember how high his ranking was or is, but clearly he is light years ahead of me and everyone else at Obsidian. Too funny, because he knew no one would play him if they knew his history nd he really, really wanted to play.

Alo, don't play Civilization with him unless you like losing. I remember we had a huge game going at Obsidian, lasted for days. I was right between Jason Keeney and Kevin and gave both of them open borders since they were the two big dogs. I remained neutral and watched hordes of catapults, swordsman, and knights going back and forth through my lands as they murdered each other. Then one turn, Kevin sent in the musketeers and it was all over but the crying.

As far as my blow up was concerned, No way was it your fault, everyone was making cuts, someone just didn't update my tasks.

Regarding Game Informer, Maybe you could just post some excerpts, whatever amount is legal through the fair use law.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,886
So Kevin's responsible for all the worst parts of Nar Shaddaa? Good to know, bodes well for Torment.
 

Ranselknulf

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Messages
1,879,547
Location
Best America
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Maybe Chris Parker or another producer took responsibility for it so that you wouldn't hate me. ;) But in any case, I'm cool if you don't blame me for it.


Producers are always there... watching......


2lutlbp.jpg
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
Zbigniew Staniewicz found a post on the Lucas Arts forums with the body of the text from the article. Thanks Zbigniew!

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=148337

Here it is in all it's unformatted glory...

You're welcome
big_grin.gif


ALTHOUGH THE ORIGINAL KNIGHTS OF THE OLD REPUBLIC (KOTOR) was developed by BioWare, Obsidian Entertainment developed the sequel to the LucasArts game, STAR WARS KNIGHTS OF THE OLD REPUBLIC II: THE SITH LORDS (KOTOR II). Upon release, the original was met by both industry acclaim and consumer praise. The challenge for Obsidian was to attain the high expectations of such a game's sequel, while adhering to an ambitious development schedule.

In tackling this project, we decided to build upon the proven success of the first game's design and were careful to not fix aspects of the game that had already proved their worth. Instead, we identified areas of KOTOR that we could expand upon to create a better experience in a flavor similar to that of the first game. Almost without exception, every game design enhancement to KOTOR II was a natural extension from the original game, not a redesign.


This project was Obsidian's first, though most members of the 33-person development team had several years of game development experience. About half of the team worked together at Black Isle Studios, while other members came from companies such as Blizzard, Electronic Arts, and Activision. About one third of the team was hired within the last six months of the project, including 70 percent of the design staff.

KOTOR II had dedicated producers on both the developer and publisher side, and all the members reported to one of three leads in art, programming, or design. The leads guided the development process, but gave considerable ownership to team members. BioWare provided the engine and toolset from KOTOR, which was the used as the foundation for KOTOR II. LucasArts provided all quality assurance, audio (sound, music, and voice), rendered cinematics, and also assisted in art asset creation. Most of the production phase of the project involved considerable overtime; however, employees were driven to work any extra hours not due to management, but due to their dedication to making a great game.

WHAT WENT RIGHT

1 ALIGNMENT AND INFLUENCE SYSTEM. The best example of expanding upon BioWare's strong game design is the influence system that Obsidian developed for KOTOR II. One of the most successful elements of the original KOTOR was its treatment of non-player character party members (companions). Their elaborate histories, personalities, and roles in the story were frequently praised as great features of the first game. Another powerful trait was the player character alignment system, the players' ability to earn lightor dark-side points for many of their actions.

Both of these elements were emphasized in KOTOR II. We expanded them by allowing players' relationships with their companions to change based upon the their decisions as the game progresses. When companions interject their own expertise or opinions during conversations, the player either gains or loses influence with that companion based on how they react to what was said.

The player's influence (either positive or negative) affects what types of information the companion will divulge and can even have more extreme effects, such as allowing the player to take on the companion as a padawan. Additionally, the player's alignment on either the good or evil side alters most of the companion relationships based upon his or her influence with them. Two of the prestige classes, Sith Lord and Jedi Master, had an even greater effect on their companions' alignments. The influence feature has been enthusiastically received by KOTOR fans.

We also increased the importance of alignment in other ways. Some of the dialogue, particularly from companions, changes when the player noticeably leans toward the light or dark side. A special lightsaber crystal attunes itself to the player's alignment and level, with its powers and abilities changing as the player does. The player's light or dark side decisions even effect who can become a player's companion.


2 MEMORABLE MOMENTS. Another aspect of KOTOR that received high praise was the non-linear game play. After completing the initial sections of the game, players were allowed to choose their own course through the game world. We sought to expand upon this idea by combining the non-linear aspect of the game with a philosophy of implementing memorable game moments. Often, what players remember from games are a few key moments that have great impact. Through cut scenes and innovative exploitation of the game engine, we created many of these moments throughout the game's story to continuously entertain and surprise.

Many of the events that occur in the game feel outside the scope of a traditional RPG, providing an experience that one normally doesn't find in the role-playing genre. For example, at several points in the game, the player takes the role of either a companion or a non-player character that's not in the party. These interludes allow you to experience different perspectives and to interact with the world in different ways. We felt this was also true to the Star Wars genre, shown m A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back, among others, as the "party" splits up to pursue different agendas.

We also emphasized the impact of the player's decisions. The influence system, as discussed above, is a primary example of how we actually did this. Another example occurs on Dantooine when the player learns of a impending conflict between the provisional government and some mercenary groups. You can take several actions to assist one side or the other, such as repairing the settlement's defenses or reprogramming them to fire upon friendly troops. Your decisions affect the battle that ultimately takes place in visible ways, and the conflict's outcome affects events later in the game. Many of the late-game elements vary considerably based upon the choices made throughout the entire game.

3 AUTOMATED DESIGN SYSTEMS. To improve balance O throughout the game and to conserve design resources for content creation, we created semi-automated systems both for placing items and scaling non-player character difficulty.

In KOTOR, items were placed throughout the game, resulting in the same ones being found during every play-through. Because of the game's open-ended nature, the order in which items were found was unknown to the designer, which can reduce the entertainment value of finding the items. For example, if players find great armor fairly early in the game, they would be less interested in any armor found later.

In KOTOR II, we implemented a random item placement system. Every item has an effective character level for which the item was designed. Each area of the game, upon first entering it, is stocked with treasures appropriate for the player's level. We included a small random chance for a particularly powerful item and incremented this chance each time a powerful item was not found. When a powerful item was placed, this random chance was reset. This implementation guaranteed the frequency of powerful items that we desired. We also could override the random factors to ensure, for example, that a key bounty hunter finds a powerful blaster rifle before he'll definitely need it.


The random item system helps ensure that players continuously find interesting items throughout the game. It also aids replayability since each play-through can yield different items. (A single play-through of the game might reveal about half of the total possible items.) Finally, by being automated, it was easy to make sweeping changes to item distribution and to add new items without requiring placed items to be rearranged. Plot-related items were still placed throughout the game.

A second automated system, called auto-balancing, was used for adjusting non-player character difficulty. In KOTOR, non-player character difficulty was, for the majority of encounters, static. Because of the open-ended world, this design created severe balancing challenges. Any given area might be traversed by either a level 8 character or a level 18 one. For KOTOR II, we used auto-balancing to both address this problem and to save design time.

Upon entering an area for the first time, the difficulty levels for all placed creatures are scaled based on the player's level. We differentiated between five degrees of scaling to meet various needs and used controlled tests to set the levels of difficulty to appropriate starting points. Autobalancing was modest for common enemies so that you feel that they're consistently gaining power throughout the game. For bosses, however, auto-balancing was more extreme. We wanted to encourage players to try new tactics and use different items to defeat these opponents. Using it in this way, the auto-balancing feature ultimately saved considerable design time.

4 ITEM CREATION AND UPGRADING. KNIGHTS OF THE OLD REPUBLIC'S item system allowed the player to upgrade some of the equipment they found. The upgradable items had between two and four slots for upgrades, depending upon the type of item. For example, upgradable armor could be reinforced with a mesh underlay. Except for lightsaber crystals, item upgrade options were very limited. You didn't have to make any choices involving the upgrades, and all upgradeable items were acquired fairly early in the game. In short, you only had to take a few extra steps in order to get your upgradable items to reach their full potential.

For KOTOR II, we added choices to the upgrade process. For example, you can now equip your armor with one of 30 underlays and overlays (though many of these are variations on each other). We increased the number of lightsaber upgrade slots from three to six. All told, KOTOR II has more than 200 upgradable items. We also made many more items upgradeable, so that finding them is the norm instead of a rarity.


Another improvement we incorporated was an item creation system. Almost every found item can be broken down into components. You can then use these components to create different items. Your skill level determines which items you can create. And while most normal items cannot be created, all upgrades (except for lightsaber crystals) can be. Additionally, most disposable items, like medpacs, mines, and grenades, can be broken down into chemicals, which can then be used to make other disposable items.

The item creation system served multiple goals. First, it increased the importance of the player's skill choices because we felt that skills were underutilized in KOTOR. The item system also improved inventory management and customization by allowing players to exchange items they weren't interested in for those that better suited their preferred style of play (demolitions experts could break down items and turn them into mines, stealth characters could break down mines and use them for stealth equipment, etc.). Upgrades were made fairly rare in the game, so the item creation system could fill its own niche without reducing the thrill of finding new items.

5 NUMEROUS MISCELLANEOUS ENHANCEMENTS. We expanded in small ways on many other elements of KOTOR. These improvements helped the game to feel more upto-date despite using the same basic graphics engine and hardware as the original.

The choreographed combat, which many KOTOR players enjoyed, was expanded to include new unarmed animations. To help showcase these animations, we implemented some side quests that required them, such as duels with the Handmaidens and the Mandalorian battle circle on Dxun. We also made unarmed combat more appealing by providing Jedi with unarmed combat bonuses and having two of the player's possible companions be especially powerful when fighting unarmed.

We further enhanced the combat system and the distinction between the Jedi classes by introducingthe concept of lightsaber forms, which were taken from the Star Wars source material. Each provides some significant benefits, but also includes weaknesses. For example, the Soresu form was best at deflecting blaster fire and was also suitable for squaring off against a single opponent. But against a lightsaber-wielding foe or many enemies, it had significant drawbacks. Force forms had a similar effect on the use of Force powers. Players can eventually learn seven of the total 11 forms, depending on their class, expand ing their tactical options.

The user interface was another element we sought to improve. We added a second weapon configuration and allowed a quick shortcut to switch between the two so that players can easily change weapons from melee to ranged combat, for example. We also reorganized the inventory and equipment screens so you can sort items by type. We added additional information to many screens to reveal some modifiers and effects that were hidden in KOTOR.


WHAT WENT WRONG

1 QUANTITY OF CONTENT. Given the short production period and modest staff for the project, our goals for number and size of areas, quests, and non-player characters were unrealistic, resulting in some aspects of the final product feeling unfinished. Simply put, we were too ambitious in terms of total content, and this was realized much too late. Although our content ambition was the biggest problem we encountered, the problem seems to be fairly rampant among most development studios. In fact, this specific issue has been discussed in so many Gome Developer postmortems that we don't have much to add to what's been said in the past.

2 CUT SCENES. KOTOR II has dozens of cut scenes, plenty more than the first game. Many of these cut scenes, as well as numerous others that were not in the released version of the game, asked more of the game engine than it was designed to handle. In particular, any cut scene involving movement-which was most of them-suffered from unpredictable results during the making. Countless hours were spent by gameplay programmers to finalize cut scenes only to later find them broken for unknown reasons. Late in the project we observed that something apparently innocuous, such as adding an ambient sound object to a distant location on the map, could throw off a cut scene's timing. These problems added up to make an ambitious schedule even more difficult. Our programmers were often unfamiliar with the deeper nuances of the engine, so debugging and correcting these problems proved problematic.

3 TECHNICAL LIMITATIONS. One of the common criticisms of KOTOR II has been low frame rate. One assumption made by those who played the game was that we failed to address some of the technology limitations of KOTOR, which also suffered from choppy frame rates. These performance issues were partially the fault of design, and partially due to the time we were able to devote to optimizing the engine. While the time we were able to spend optimizing the game engine helped, we used most of those savings on making more detailed models, more nonplayer characters, and larger areas (to reduce the frequency of load times]-often having more than twice the active content than a comparable region in KOTOR. The load times between KOTOR and KOTOR II are comparable, although the frequency of them is much less in KOTOR II.

This approach had mixed results. Few who play the game notice the liveliness of the areas or the fact that they contained a greater variety of non-player character appearances. Had we reduced area size to KOTOR-sized levels (and thus decreased the amount of content required to make an area feel sufficiently and diversely populated), the overall game would have been more enjoyable.

4 AI IMPLEMENTATION. One element we wanted to improve in KOTOR II was the Al for both enemies and, especially, nonplayer character companions. The Al in KOTOR is quite simplistic. Companions attack their target, closing in on it if they're using a melee weapon, and attack it until one or the other is dead. They would never switch weapons. The ability to control a characters' Al was limited to specifying if grenades or Force powers should be used. How these special abilities were used was based upon simplistic algorithms, without taking into account the tactical situation.

We did not focus on improving the NPC AI until late in development, and a lack of programming resources allowed us to implement only the simplest improvements. We added a couple of behavior varieties to allow the player to control how far his companions would stray and whether they would prefer ranged or melee weapons. We had already committed to removing the companion Al interface from an obscure start menu screen and we placed it as an option on the main interface. This would have been a good improvement except that the Al options were not interesting or useful enough to warrant such prime placement.


In the end, our efforts had essentially no meaningful net impact on the game. We should have either realized that improving the Al was beyond the scope of what we could accomplish, or we should have scheduled more resources to the task so that the Al would be significantly improved.

5 INSUFFICIENT POLISH TIME. Many of the new game systems did not receive significant polish time. Instead of being well-refined systems, the final implementations were essentially rough drafts with design flaws that we were able to identify but not address.

Companion dialogue was implemented fairly late in the development cycle, which limited our ability to fully experiment with the influence system. The number and quantity of influence changes were not well-mapped or balanced between various characters. During late testing, we found that we simply did not have enough influence opportunities for some of the characters. With insufficient time to properly address this issue, we simply increased the magnitude of each influence shift. Fortunately, given the praise the influence system has received, this minor change adequately addressed the issue. But at its core, the influence system is not as well designed as we would have liked.

The auto-balancing system was less successful in achieving its goals. We achieved complete play-through of the game only shortly before our gold date and were unable to evaluate issues like game balance until it was too late to make many changes. As a result, we erred on the side of making the game too easy and, therefore, largely undermined the potential of auto-balancing as a tool to provide a consistently challenging experience.

Obviously, better initial design and planning would have been the best way to prevent these types of problems. But a more realistic approach might have been to schedule more polish time for properly addressing design flaws such as these.

MAY THE [ENGINE'S] FORCE BE WITH YOU

Without the high quality engine and toolset from BioWare and the extensive support from LucasArts, a game of this caliber would not have been remotely possible in little more than 14 months. We are applying the lessons learned from the goals we didn't fully attain to our future projects, including NEVERWINTER NIGHTS 2. Overall, we're pleased with KOTOR II and the feedback we've received. Given the ambitious development cycle of the project, we feel we accomplished our goal of creating a worthy sequel to the award-winning KOTOR.
[Author Affiliation]
KEVIN SAUNDERS is a senior designer at Obsidian entertainment. He was the lead designer and producer of SHATTERED GALAXY, which swept the 2001 Independent Games Festival. Kevin worjed as a designer on NOVERWINTER NIGHT 2, STAR WARS KNIGHTS OF THE OLD REPUBLIC II: THE SITH LORD OF THE RINGS: THE BATTLE FOR MIDDLE-EARTH, COMMAND & CONQUER GENERALS: ZERO HOUR, and FAR CRY. He earned his Master's of Engineering degree from Cornell University and is currently writing an educational text on game interface design. Send comments about this article to <removed per forum rules>.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,886
Many of the events that occur in the game feel outside the scope of a traditional RPG, providing an experience that one normally doesn't find in the role-playing genre. For example, at several points in the game, the player takes the role of either a companion or a non-player character that's not in the party. These interludes allow you to experience different perspectives and to interact with the world in different ways. We felt this was also true to the Star Wars genre, shown m A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back, among others, as the "party" splits up to pursue different agendas.
Those moments were shit and not something that went right. The second half of Nar Shaddaa is one of the nadirs of role playing games.
Each area of the game, upon first entering it, is stocked with treasures appropriate for the player's level.
...
Upon entering an area for the first time, the difficulty levels for all placed creatures are scaled based on the player's level.
Literally saying level scaling is something they did right.

The choreographed combat, which many KOTOR players enjoyed, was expanded to include new unarmed animations. To help showcase these animations, we implemented some side quests that required them, such as duels with the Handmaidens and the Mandalorian battle circle on Dxun.
I don't remember having to be unarmed for these fights...?

The auto-balancing system was less successful in achieving its goals. We achieved complete play-through of the game only shortly before our gold date and were unable to evaluate issues like gamebalance until it was too late to make many changes. As a result, we erred on the side of making the game too easy and, therefore, largely undermined the potential of auto-balancing as a tool to provide a consistently challenging experience.
But I thought this went right? :lol: Can't have it both ways.

Hope everyone involved is fully aware that
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/39...rquhart-at-rpg-codex-forum/page-4#entry541679
Josh Sawyer said:
I've had groin pulls that were more fun than KotOR combats
http://baby-goat.livejournal.com/202002.html
Josh Sawyer said:
KotOR had absolutely terrible core gameplay
apply just as well to the sequel and

http://www.ign.com/articles/2004/12...c-ii-the-sith-lords-wrap-report-part-1?page=2
Kevin Saunders (Zero Hour, Shattered Galaxies) worked on Nar Shaddaa and did much of the game mechanics and workbench design.
Kevin's no Josh.
 

Lancehead

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
1,550
Sawyer said:
Quote
like it or not, bioware essentially remade ps:t in a more popular setting and simply added more appealing combats and shorter individual dialogues... and they made lots of money doing it.

HA! Good Fun!
I've had groin pulls that were more fun than KotOR combats, but otherwise you're right.
:hmmm:
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,640
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Keep on working on it Roguey, you're only two ignores away from hiver.
 

Sensuki

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
9,803
Location
New North Korea
Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
That was lmao easy and really abusable too. Run around in a circle and half the handmaidens would clip the edge of the mat and be disqualified.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,886
There was a portion where you duel one or several of the handmaidens and they put a bunch of restrictions on you. I can't remember it really well since it's been a few years since I've played TSL.

EDIT:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNYJn4KDa5Q
Yes, I remember that, I just don't remember having to be unarmed to fight them. http://www.gamebanshee.com/starwarskotorii/locations/secretacademy.php
Oh it was literally just the first fight. No wonder I don't remember.

I beat the everyone-against-you fight by running around in a circle at the edges so most of 'em got disqualified by stepping out. :cool:
 

ksaun

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
111
Location
Beyond Beyond the Beyond
As far as my blow up was concerned, No way was it your fault, everyone was making cuts, someone just didn't update my tasks.

Thanks, Anthony, you're awesome. =)

P.S. I'll gladly field direct questions about KotOR2 (or whatever) on Formspring but this is Developer Story Time with Old Man Davis. =) I'd like to respect Anthony's thread here...
P.P.S. When the Colin-KFC emoticon going to be in the smilies list?
 

NotTale

Learned
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
139
Those moments were shit and not something that went right. The second half of Nar Shaddaa is one of the nadirs of role playing games.
I have to agree.


They were a neat idea, but the gap between Jedi and non-Jedi was huge. If you went into those sections without a Jedi, it became a game of exploiting AI weaknesses and savescumming. If you bring a Jedi, then you just cream everything with force powers and lightsabers. If your Jedi is benched, then you blow your entire inventory of grenades, mines, and shields while exploiting LOS.

And I'm being nice in saying "neat idea" really. I'm not a big fan of taking the player away from their PC, but I can respect the wish to show different perspectives.
 

Endemic

Arcane
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
4,335
I thought Roguey was bitching about the combat being too easy? Goto's yacht was one of the few actually challenging parts of the game.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom