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Crispy™ Dawn of War patchimified, getting new website + forums
RE-INSTALLING FOR TZEENTCH
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Aothan
Magister
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2008
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even after approximately four years of intermittent playing only just last night did I hear a quote that I don't recall hearing before, something to the effect of:
'have I succumbed to the path, or has the aspect succumbed to me'
since my recent return to DoW II I've been playing with Warp Spider as a 'commander' for the Eldar, I think his specialties set him apart from the other commanders and can make him incredibly effective but various challenges remain. First and foremost the questionable balance between armies, see Orks and Shootas and everything that follows, but most of all because of my preference for playing 3v3 games most maps are designed to meet the opposing army or armies somewhere directly to contest and hold starting resource points within the first two minutes. And this, somewhat obviously, is not how Eldar are best played, but the very nature of team game maps is designed to force encounters right from the beginning. It is actually not the very start that is the problem but what happens shortly after if the other player understands once they take their second tactical squad, upgrade their Shootas, or similar that in terms of direct strengths Eldar will not be able to effectively match armies for equivalent costs. Then of course is the amount of area-of-effect skills that increase as the game continues and how susceptible primarily infantry composed Eldar designs are assuming they did not err and already lost parity in the opening phases.
'have I succumbed to the path, or has the aspect succumbed to me'
since my recent return to DoW II I've been playing with Warp Spider as a 'commander' for the Eldar, I think his specialties set him apart from the other commanders and can make him incredibly effective but various challenges remain. First and foremost the questionable balance between armies, see Orks and Shootas and everything that follows, but most of all because of my preference for playing 3v3 games most maps are designed to meet the opposing army or armies somewhere directly to contest and hold starting resource points within the first two minutes. And this, somewhat obviously, is not how Eldar are best played, but the very nature of team game maps is designed to force encounters right from the beginning. It is actually not the very start that is the problem but what happens shortly after if the other player understands once they take their second tactical squad, upgrade their Shootas, or similar that in terms of direct strengths Eldar will not be able to effectively match armies for equivalent costs. Then of course is the amount of area-of-effect skills that increase as the game continues and how susceptible primarily infantry composed Eldar designs are assuming they did not err and already lost parity in the opening phases.
Interesting. So what are they essentially doing, working on revamping the game enough to make it essentially new?
Indeed, I used to play Dawn of War competitively, and the game completely changed after Winter Assault (or was it Dark Crusade?) :
They added unit limits (ie 1 squad of possessed Space Marines and 2 Chaos Predators max).
The removed missile launchers and flame throwers from Chaos Space Marines
They removed the accuracy and health upgrades from CSM
They removed 3 out of 4 upgrades of the Possessed Space Marines
They moved the PSM to Tiers 3.
+ probably some other stuff I never used.
So they changed the game a lot, and removed quite a few options indeed (but added the chaos berserkers at Tiers 2 in WA, the Demon prince in Dark Crusade, and the Flyer in Soulstorm).
Overall, I much prefered the pre Winter Assault game, but post WA game was still better than DoW2 1v1 for me(3v3 was still good IMO).
Which was a good thing because things like spamming PSM in DoW oc was completely broken. And it was not just PSM that could be spammed.
Which was a good thing because it made Chaos more than just SM with a different paintjob.
Except they didn't, they changed them. The CSM got 1 upgrade that doubled (!) the damage of heavy bolters, and another that gave them a big hp boost when led by a champ.
Not removed, but made the PSM start with those instead.
Becauser zerkers.
Many options that were axed were removed for good reason, and a few cooler ones that were removed in DC got brought back in SS. The final DoW version (SS 1.2) also introduced a hell of a lot of new stuff, and saying that it's more limited than oc/WA is a fallacy. SS 1.2 is the only proper multiplayer DoW. And don't even get me started about game balance.
One of the things that bugged me was that they took away Obliterators anti-infantry designs. They were all lascannons after WA.
They could have rebalanced PSM instead (and fireprisms + whatever else broken units), though. It's true that the balance was broken for most of DoW vanilla lifetime, but having limited number of broken units just means you will take the full complement every single time.
Heh, it's what they are in the first place!
You're right, the #choice remains the same overall there.
which is the same as removing them, as you didn't have any choice on the matter anymore = less decision (granted, the decision was usually trivial, like build PSM squad 1, buy all upgrades except for the flamethrower, build PSM squad 2...)
Indeed
I haven't played SS, so I cannot tell about their reinclusion. But I'm not the only one to have been disapointed by most option removals, otherwise, no one would have bothered with a DowPro mod.
I think it had to do with their AI being bugged.
Taking away CSM troop options hurt overall. No more plasma guns or missile launchers for normal units. That bugged me. Orks were changed around too, but I can't recall how off the top of my head.
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I am 90% sure obliterators have both plasma and bolter weaponry in soulstorm.
And making most of the really good units limited was a very good move. Sure everyone will still build that one possessed squad each game, but at least they will vary the rest of their army instead of going 100% PSM. Some of the limits are a bit harsh though(why only one kasrkin squad? :/)
And making most of the really good units limited was a very good move. Sure everyone will still build that one possessed squad each game, but at least they will vary the rest of their army instead of going 100% PSM. Some of the limits are a bit harsh though(why only one kasrkin squad? :/)
I actually do expect something like this to happen. Relic can not into balance.
Limiting + moving into a later tier sounds like rebalancing to me. I'm also fairly sure they got significantly buffed to compensate for the 1 squad limit, including giving them termie armour.
Have you even played DowPro? It's literally nothing like all the normal DoWs, the mod does a complete overhaul of everything, even though it officially says it's just a "rebalance to make things more like dow oc again!"
It is also absolutely fucking terrible.
The Elite mod for Dow2 does a much better job at adding more options while tweaking some other suck/bullshit from Retribution without going full retard (too much) than DowPro could ever hope to do.
CSM still have plasma guns, albeit only in t3.
And who gives a shit about rocket launchers when you have horrors.
They do. HBs, plasma, lascannons.
Corporate_Jew_Master
Arcane
The Chaos nerfs were all very good. CSMs could beat SMs in a straight fight and barely lose any of their numbers in DoW1 with all the weapon upgrades.
Posessed marine availability nerf was good as was placing them in tier 3 because they are essentially a tier 3 unit. (especially after you didn't have to upgrade their flame ability) They could panic entire squads then cut them to pieces. Eldar and guard players would stand no chance against them. (inb4 basilisk argument, PCMs were so fast you couldn't land a good shot with a fucking leman russ)
I remember DoW vanilla multiplayer. 90% of the players who were against Chaos left when they saw that the enemy had reached tier 2 and their base wasn't wrecked.
Posessed marine availability nerf was good as was placing them in tier 3 because they are essentially a tier 3 unit. (especially after you didn't have to upgrade their flame ability) They could panic entire squads then cut them to pieces. Eldar and guard players would stand no chance against them. (inb4 basilisk argument, PCMs were so fast you couldn't land a good shot with a fucking leman russ)
I remember DoW vanilla multiplayer. 90% of the players who were against Chaos left when they saw that the enemy had reached tier 2 and their base wasn't wrecked.
But the sheer number of races they include make it hard to balance in the first place.
On the other hand, it was quite hard to survive T1 with chaos... They lost badly to orks, and slightly to Marines and Eldars before patch 1.4 (which happened not too long before WA).
I played it in the beginning, before I moved away from DoW (I didn't move away because of the changes anyway, but the players I used to team with moved away). At this time, it was pretty close to vanilla IIRC.
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Corporate_Jew_Master
Arcane
In DoW vanilla?
Not really. CSMs had 11 people in the squad, could have 4 heavy bolters and bunch of other weapons. Orkz won against everyone in tier 1 anyway.
Not really. CSMs had 11 people in the squad, could have 4 heavy bolters and bunch of other weapons. Orkz won against everyone in tier 1 anyway.
But scouts were much much better than cultists before you could get them the grenade launchers. T2 rush was quite risky for the CSM, as you had to abandon map control and LP yourself up.
That said, CSM were probably better than the other against orks.
If I recall, most of the top 100 were Eldars, though.
It was Eldars>orks>SM>CSM, but overall, orks had a higher win ratio, because non Korean players could not leverage the FoF brokedeness.
T2 chaos main strength was early predators, as they could come quite quickly. Post 1.4 (or was it 1.3?), the defilers became completely insane (they corrected the AI, allowing them to use their autocannon everytime, and buffed them at the same time), which made Chaos go from underpowered to broken.
That said, CSM were probably better than the other against orks.
If I recall, most of the top 100 were Eldars, though.
It was Eldars>orks>SM>CSM, but overall, orks had a higher win ratio, because non Korean players could not leverage the FoF brokedeness.
T2 chaos main strength was early predators, as they could come quite quickly. Post 1.4 (or was it 1.3?), the defilers became completely insane (they corrected the AI, allowing them to use their autocannon everytime, and buffed them at the same time), which made Chaos go from underpowered to broken.
I guess they still haven't patched the remaining issues in DC. At least there's the Chaplain mod.
Did Orks have some of the better T1 units out there?
I always loved shoota boys.
I always loved shoota boys.
You can now more or less register DoW retail keys (CD or digital) on Steam. "More or less" because Sega is running into some trouble and so far only vanilla DoW and SS keys can be redeemed while we have to wait a bit longer for WA and DC. I have just registered my DoW key from Gamersgate so I can confirm that bit; I don't have SS but various sources reported it works. If you are in that situation, you can either wait for the problem to be fixed or ask Sega to do it manually (help.sega.com). You'll likely have to send a picture of the printed CD-key or the digital version.
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Afaik, soulstorm has been registrable ever since the DoW2 beta.
Deleted member 7219
Guest
I can confirm this. I could register the original DoW (I had the GOTY edition) and Soulstorm, but not Winter Assault or Dark Crusade.
Been playing DoW 1 and DoW 2 Retri a lot lately on Steam due to the bundle sale. Few thins that I noticed while trying out the Steam version. Soul Storm has now Sega and Iron Lore intro. No LAN option seems it was removed with new patch. If you don't have Dawn of War 1, Winter Assault and other installed on steam. Then in multiplayer you can only select Dark Eldar, Sisters Of Battle and Necrons. races. Ran into this problem when trying out Ultimate Apocalypse mod. To be honest this feature feels so stupid and outdated that it pissed me off a bit and trying race unlocker didn't help.
So instead I have been trying out DoW 2 Retri Last stand and Dawn of War II: Elite MP since it does add more content and unofficial bug fixes.
Edited typos and clarification.
So instead I have been trying out DoW 2 Retri Last stand and Dawn of War II: Elite MP since it does add more content and unofficial bug fixes.
Edited typos and clarification.
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anus_pounder
Arcane
Though if I'm not mistaken, in order to select necrons don't you need Dark Crusade installed?
It uses Steam now, so if there you are playing on a LAN, it should detect it and use it.
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