Arcanum Chris Avellone Arcanum LP

[GlutenBurger]

Well, you kind of answered your own question. You could mention that the Doc is a crack shot who recently did a pretty mean job on some bank robbers, and it's only a matter of time before he gets fed up with folk blocking the bridge.

Still, somebody ought to mention that there's no Sword of Celestial Fire in this game. There's nothing to be gained from never lying, and it's a pretty silly limitation to place on yourself if you're hoping to talk your way through the game.

 

[Ninjerk]

Diplomacy can also mean convincing your enemies to see things your way through coercion and/or compromise.

There actually is an option for this. You just have to destroy the new bridge materials. The bandits get what they want, you get to cross the bridge, and no one gets hurt - physically, at least. In the long run, the town will suffer, but that's not your fault... It's that damn lazy Doc who could kill the bandits in a heartbeat, but doesn't!

Seriously though, the bandits are dimwitted, selfish thugs who haven't the barest scrap of human decency beneath their polite veneer. They'll gladly murder you and your companions at the slightest provocation. Beyond helping them in some way or lying, what argument could possibly convince them to let you through, let alone leave town themselves? Or do you think that having a high enough level of persuasion should magically make you able to talk anyone out of anything, even if it doesn't make sense? (Even if you believe that, keep in mind that it's impossible for the player to have mastered persuasion at this stage.)

Let's not forget that the constabulary won't lift a finger against them even when they're preoccupied with trying to kick your character to death! They seem quite capable, though, if you try to rob their bank!

 

[Roguey]

There actually is an option for this. You just have to destroy the new bridge materials. The bandits get what they want, you get to cross the bridge, and no one gets hurt - physically, at least. In the long run, the town will suffer, but that's not your fault... It's that damn lazy Doc who could kill the bandits in a heartbeat, but doesn't!

Avellone could have gone for this option if not for the fact that they telepathically knew he agreed to wipe them out. Extreme unforecasted consequences like that are terrible.

 

[Karmapowered]

47 pages of people masturbating writing pseudo-fiction over a LP that is probably as meaningless to his author and the world of cRPGs than my first HJ.



Avellone has just achieved one of the most skillful and expensive (if you account for the KS stretch goal) trolls of the recent years.

 

[t]

Couldn't watch his terrible playthrough. Had to start my own. Couldn't resist farming at Liam's workshop

 

[Roguey]

It's well-deserved considering the Codex bought it for him and he needed financial incentive to even start it.

 

[MicoSelva]

My question was more along the lines of whether the entire world map does indeed "exist" or if it's procedurally generated as you explore. I think this feature is pretty damn impressive, especially for its time, and it's rather funny it has no impact on the actual gameplay since nobody in their right mind would ever travel that way anyway.

I believe the world is pre-generated, in the sense that it is static and not different every playthrough. It was still probably procedurally generated in the wilderness areas, rather than hand-crafted, though.

Watching MCA playing Arcanum = mildly amusing.

Reading Codex thread about his LP = very entertaining.

 

[Ninjerk]

47 pages of people masturbating writing pseudo-fiction over a LP that is probably as meaningless to his author and the world of cRPGs than my first HJ.



Avellone has just achieved one of the most skillful and expensive (if you account for the KS stretch goal) trolls of the recent years.

I thought so, too, but don't be surprised if you're accused of MCA worship.

 

[Karmapowered]

I thought so, too, but don't be surprised if you're accused of MCA worship.

I don't mind being accused of worshipping MCA. Well, worshipping might be a bit extreme, but me having quite some respect for the man, certainly not.

OTOH, what had me pondering about this particular thread is that one could establish a certain proximity between people that devise pretty elaborate "explanations" and theories for pages and pages about MCA's (arguably botched) LP, don't seem to mind paying for the "entertainment" either, and other people that write the same amount of delusional fan-fictions about "sexy" (?) blue aliens or whatever on Bioware's boards, for example.

This was a pretty disturbing discovery to me, but I don't want to give it too much thought for now.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

There actually is an option for this. You just have to destroy the new bridge materials. The bandits get what they want, you get to cross the bridge, and no one gets hurt - physically, at least. In the long run, the town will suffer, but that's not your fault... It's that damn lazy Doc who could kill the bandits in a heartbeat, but doesn't!

Avellone could have gone for this option if not for the fact that they telepathically knew he agreed to wipe them out. Extreme unforecasted consequences like that are terrible.

Don't they say they saw you talking to the constable, so you're probably in cahoots with him? From the player's perspective, you don't see the bridge from the town, but it's a straight line from the bank to the bridge. Doesn't seem too absurd that they'd know.

 

[felipepepe]

Duh, NPCs are just quest givers/objectives, with no life or intelligence of their own... saying that a NPC would know/see something obvious is preposterous!

 

[tuluse]

It's stupid because it means you can't lie to the constable about accepting the job.

Of course, since MCA doesn't like lying anyways...

 

[Clockwork Knight]

But even if you accepted the job without any intention of doing it, the thugs don't know that (and saying "I was lying that time! Believe me, I'm a liar" usually doesn't convince people that you're being sincere with them). You wouldn't gain anything from lying in this situation, anyway.

 

[tuluse]

But even if you accepted the job without any intention of doing it, the thugs don't know that (and "I lied to him! Believe me, I'm a liar" usually doesn't convince people that you're being sincere with them). You wouldn't gain anything from lying in this situation, anyway.

I think if you destroyed the new bridge that would be a good indication that you were lying. What do the thieves have to lose by letting you try?

Also, the thieves are clearly not the brightest bunch, so it should be easy to fool them even after accepting the quest from the constable.

 

[Kalin]

I guess Lukan and his jolly crew might suspect that the player would simply run back to Owens and warn him to secure the bridge materials.

 

[Roguey]

Don't they say they saw you talking to the constable, so you're probably in cahoots with him? From the player's perspective, you don't see the bridge from the town, but it's a straight line from the bank to the bridge. Doesn't seem too absurd that they'd know.

They only refuse to give you a quest if you actually accepted the quest. You can talk to him as much as you want. They certainly can't hear you from all the way over where the bridge is.

Fallout New Vegas had a similar somewhat-contrived mutually exclusive set-up with the Powder Gangers quest in in Goodsprings but it wasn't as big of a deal there since it's not a critical path quest.

 

[suejak]

Yeah, I've always thought that was pretty bullshit in Arcanum. There's another one involving Bates and his rival in Tarant, where basically it silently locks you out of content much further down the road merely for off-handedly agreeing to do things.

I mean, there's no logical explanation for any of it, except that they designed it badly. You're forced to make a decision between two paths without realizing that's what you're doing. And not in an interesting plot-twist way, but just in a frustrating, oh-fuck-i-guess-have-to-reload kind of way. What did they want to incentivize? Not agreeing to do anything until you're positive that there are no other options you're turning down?

Anyway, it's bad game design, but there's also no non-gamey reason for one person refusing to speak to you about the possibility of helping them. "I heard you agreed to help my rival...!" does not mean that you wouldn't be just as likely to help them instead. Whatever. Arcanum is shit, but it's fun anyway.

 

[Zep Zepo]

Anyway, it's bad game design,

...or were they visionaries of the "replayability" mechanic in RPGs games.

Zep--

 

[Roguey]

Forecasting consequences doesn't remove replayability and it lets you know you actually have a choice.

Making decisions based on foreknowledge doesn't feel like an ideal way to play. How'zabout letting me decide if I want to side with the town or the bandits the first time through instead of siding with the town by necessity the first time and maybe the bandits in the future.

 

[buzz]

o_O you guys do realize that there's a point for the "I'll think about it" option in RPGs, right? It is a bit annoying that you can't change your mind or lie or turn around regarding certain quests but this design on other hand encourages more thorough exploration.
It's a bit hilarious actually how Avellone is eagerly searching any trashcan but can't contain himself when a guy tells him to kill a bunch of bandits, quest that he shouldn't even really try accepting in the first place.

 

[suejak]

o_O you guys do realize that there's a point for the "I'll think about it" option in RPGs, right? It is a bit annoying that you can't change your mind or lie or turn around regarding certain quests but this design on other hand encourages more thorough exploration.
It's a bit hilarious actually how Avellone is eagerly searching any trashcan but can't contain himself when a guy tells him to kill a bunch of bandits, quest that he shouldn't even really try accepting in the first place.

It encourages you to say "I'll think about it" while you ditz around saying "I'll think about it" to everybody else until you think you can guess which content is mutually exclusive? Cool.

Why shouldn't he "even really try accepting" a random quest the first person in town hands him? Seriously, you guys blow my mind. The game has shit design. Nobody serious or experienced even contests that.

 

[buzz]

It encourages you to say "I'll think about it" while you ditz around saying "I'll think about it" to everybody else until you think you can guess which content is mutually exclusive? Cool.

Well, you can either do that or support the fucking consequences. If you play corrupt/evil characters for example, you don't just automatically accept those quests because you might have the surprise of helping the bank robbers and bandits if you walk around a little more.

Why shouldn't "even really try accepting" a random quest the first person in town hands him? Seriously, you guys blow my mind.

Because he's supposed to play a diplomatic character, not someone who's meant to fight bandits, bank robbers or whatever.

Since the entire thing is rather optional and you're not forced into making a decision, the problem is not that bad. In Junktown you HAVE to take the quest to tape Gizmo or else you go to jail/get attacked. So in that case changing sides makes much more sense.

I dunno, I tend to view the ability to not click the accept choice every time someone asks me to do something, like in a fucking MMORPG, to be an useful skill for playing RPGs. What's the point of playing such game if you don't to explore and experiment?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

But doing quests is experimenting (especially if you're playing for the first time, like MCA). He's playing a diplomatic character, but that doesn't mean he has to let go of anything that remotely smells like combat.

(of course, MCA's problem is that he doesn't find ways to compensate for his character's weaknesses. A diplomat should stock up on grenades and hire the half-ogre to be able to tackle those bridge guys in combat)

 

[buzz]

I'm not saying that he should totally disengage from said quest, just to take his time and explore thoroughly before making a decision, which in his case, may or may not be rash.
Yeah, usually I agree that when you go blind into a new RPG you should play it straight and safe. That means taking a combat-proficient character, killing lots of critters and maybe even accepting the first quests you go into. But if you're going to roll a squishy character, at least act like one. Lie, run, hide, explore options, play things in a safely manner. Not only because you can side with someone else in this case, but you need to better assess the situation, buy some better equipment, hire some muscle, do some easier quests so you can be better leveled up against certain challenges and so on.

To take an example from Fallout again. You can directly do the quest where you take care of the radscorpion cave, which might be harder if you're squishy and you don't have high perception. Or you can explore a bit and hire Ian, which makes the job a bit easier.

 

[DragoFireheart]

In any good video game, failure should be an option that you may encounter. Without it, you get shit like Animal Crossing and retarded facebook games.