Character Creation philosophy

[MMXI]

I am actually with mondblut here. Even if there are some tooltips showing you that this is possible, the game was clearly built around one character+npc party system.

+1

I thought you hadn't even played Baldur's Gate 2?

 

[DraQ]

I am actually with mondblut here. Even if there are some tooltips showing you that this is possible, the game was clearly built around one character+npc party system.

+1

I thought you hadn't even played Baldur's Gate 2?

I have. Briefly. I intend to return to it someday after I muster enough dumb perseverance to slog through its prequel.

 

[JarlFrank]

I am actually with mondblut here. Even if there are some tooltips showing you that this is possible, the game was clearly built around one character+npc party system.

+1

I thought you hadn't even played Baldur's Gate 2?

I have. Briefly. I intend to return to it someday after I muster enough dumb perseverance to slog through its prequel.

No need for that, really. I dropped BG1 after a few hours, but enjoyed BG2 quite a lot. Just read up on what happened in the first one on wikipedia or something.

 

[Sceptic]

ITT, Sceptic never played strategy games with allied or diplomatic victories.

ITT mondblut fails at remembering what his own argument and examples were.

YOU were the one who brought up Warlords as an analogy to BG. Not I. Next time you want to be taken seriously, bring up a game that actually has allied or diplomatic victories when you're comparing to a game like BG where the multiplayer victory can ONLY be achieved by allied victory (because there's, you know, no other kind of victory in BG multiplayer...)

Also, no I don't play strategy games much. Warlords is the closest thing to a real strategy game that I've played with any consistency.

I am actually with mondblut here. Even if there are some tooltips showing you that this is possible, the game was clearly built around one character+npc party system.

This is, however, not what mondblut was initially arguing, and what both MMXI and I were calling him out on. See above.

As for what YOU just said, yeah, I also agree with it. Which is why I never bothered playing BG in multiplayer past Candlekeep (that, and that would've meant having to replay the game).

 

[halflingbarbarian]

Haha mondblut has issues, or he is trolling you guys with great efficiency.

If the discussion started with BG2, stick to it because any other examples will just be irrelevant and make you look crazy. Game difficulty, encounters' placement, combat style, game balance, etc. all contributes towards the viability of having a full party human-controlled. Bringing in extreme analogies from a totally different genre like Warlords (never played it) or Civ is why I wonder if he is trolling.

Mondblut, if I create 6 characters in BG2 with the same stats or lower potential strength (not the stat, just overall) of NPCs I could otherwise get, what do you call that? LARPing? Cheating? Exploiting? I think you are just imposing your powergaming mentality on everyone else and expect nothing less than the aim of thorough rape of mechanics when considering alternative playmodes other people prefer.

If trolling, gj.

 

[laclongquan]

Strategy games with allied or diplo victories? Alpha Centaury

Anyway, CC totally depend on what kind of game is that. The notable exception to all options above is that an over-the-shoulder 3rdPOV that allow me to watch a girl's butt jiggle while she's running will make me choose a female character.

 

[ChristofferC]

Haha mondblut has issues, or he is trolling you guys with great efficiency.

If the discussion started with BG2, stick to it because any other examples will just be irrelevant and make you look crazy. Game difficulty, encounters' placement, combat style, game balance, etc. all contributes towards the viability of having a full party human-controlled. Bringing in extreme analogies from a totally different genre like Warlords (never played it) or Civ is why I wonder if he is trolling.

Mondblut, if I create 6 characters in BG2 with the same stats or lower potential strength (not the stat, just overall) of NPCs I could otherwise get, what do you call that? LARPing? Cheating? Exploiting? I think you are just imposing your powergaming mentality on everyone else and expect nothing less than the aim of thorough rape of mechanics when considering alternative playmodes other people prefer.

If trolling, gj.

If he is trolling there is no reason to answer him. If he is not trolling we will have to agree to disagree because there is no way I will ever view creating a full party in BG2 as exploiting the game. So there is not really any reason for me to try and debate with him... And even if it could be considered an exploit, how is it not a feature of the game because of that??? For example, stealing workers in Civ4 is considered an AI exploit by many but it is still a feature of the game. I think he's trolling, but who knows?

 

[Kawaii Theurgist]

Where's the the character class who gets the best clothes and hairdos, and then I spend the next twelve hours trying to make her look anything like me option?

 

[mondblut]

YOU were the one who brought up Warlords as an analogy to BG.

Warlords 2 was the only strategy game I've played in mp with a group of people for a considerable amount of time, and its nation selecting screen was stuck forever in mind, that's all. I am perfectly aware it doesn't have allied victories, and it in no way invalidates my point concerning a multitude of games that do. You are nitpicking and grasping for straws, and you know it.

Mondblut, if I create 6 characters in BG2 with the same stats or lower potential strength (not the stat, just overall) of NPCs I could otherwise get, what do you call that? LARPing? Cheating? Exploiting?

All of it Hey, you can pick several sides in a strategy game for the sole purpose of dismantling their militaries and offering AI some easy early conquests in order to make the game more challenging, too.

 

[MMXI]

Hey mondblut, can you write "yes" or "no" next to each of the following questions?

Is 6 players sharing 6 characters an exploit?
Is 5 players sharing 6 characters an exploit?
Is 5 players sharing 5 characters an exploit?
Is 4 players sharing 6 characters an exploit?
Is 4 players sharing 5 characters an exploit?
Is 4 players sharing 4 characters an exploit?
Is 3 players sharing 6 characters an exploit?
Is 3 players sharing 5 characters an exploit?
Is 3 players sharing 4 characters an exploit?
Is 3 players sharing 3 characters an exploit?
Is 2 players sharing 6 characters an exploit?
Is 2 players sharing 5 characters an exploit?
Is 2 players sharing 4 characters an exploit?
Is 2 players sharing 3 characters an exploit?
Is 2 players sharing 2 characters an exploit?
Is 1 player sharing 6 characters an exploit?
Is 1 player sharing 5 characters an exploit?
Is 1 player sharing 4 characters an exploit?.
Is 1 player sharing 3 characters an exploit?
Is 1 player sharing 2 characters an exploit?
Is 1 player sharing 1 character an exploit?

Thanks.

 

[mondblut]

Hey mondblut, can you write "yes" or "no" next to each of the following questions?

Not "sharing", to start with. "Creating".

Is 6 players creating 6 characters an exploit?
Is 5 players creating 5 characters an exploit?
Is 4 players creating 4 characters an exploit?
Is 3 players creating 3 characters an exploit?
Is 2 players creating 2 characters an exploit?

No.

Is 5 players creating 6 characters an exploit?
Is 4 players creating 6 characters an exploit?
Is 4 players creating 5 characters an exploit?
Is 3 players creating 6 characters an exploit?
Is 3 players creating 5 characters an exploit?
Is 3 players creating 4 characters an exploit?
Is 2 players creating 6 characters an exploit?
Is 2 players creating 5 characters an exploit?
Is 2 players creating 4 characters an exploit?
Is 2 players creating 3 characters an exploit?

As far as I am concerned, yes. Even if the developers couldn't technically restrict it, wouldn't give a rat's ass about it, or it never occured to them somebody would want to; it clearly goes against the spirit of the game.

Is 1 player creating 6 characters an exploit?
Is 1 player creating 5 characters an exploit?
Is 1 player creating 4 characters an exploit?.
Is 1 player creating 3 characters an exploit?
Is 1 player creating 2 characters an exploit?

Naturally. In addition to the point above, "1 player" does not play "multiplayer". That's kinda the definition of "multiplayer". Using quirks in multiplayer mode to alter single-player experience = exploit.

Is 1 player creating 1 character an exploit?

No, unless (for the reason above) he does it in multiplayer mode. Don't ask me why would he.

Thanks.

You're welcome.

 

[MMXI]

So from this we can gather that you believe that 1 player created character and 5 recruitable party members is equivalent to 1 player created character. From this we can calculate that recruitable party members add or remove nothing from the challenge of the game. From this we can gather that playing Baldur's Gate solo is just as fitting as playing it "normally". From this we can reach the conclusion that you prefer playing single character RPGs to multi-character RPGs, whether all player created or not.

I'm positive that a party consisting of a single player created character and 5 recruited characters is stronger than a party of two player created characters.

 

[mondblut]

So from this we can gather that you believe that 1 player created character and 5 recruitable party members is equivalent to 1 player created character.

WUT? "equivalent" in what?

From this we can gather that playing Baldur's Gate solo is just as fitting as playing it "normally".

That much is obvious. A player is free to pick anything between 2 to 5 followers on his way, or none at all, as he sees fit. Nowhere the BG stresses that you *must* have followers, or forces you to (well, maybe on occasional railroading tearfest cutscene about assraping Imoen with a broken bottle or something, I can't be bothered to remember).

From this we can reach the conclusion that you prefer playing single character RPGs to multi-character RPGs, whether all player created or not.

That's quite a leap of logic you have here

I'm positive that a party consisting of a single player created character and 5 recruited characters is stronger than a party of two player created characters.

That much is obvious again. I fail to see how the strength of party relates to the issue, however. As I said, one can use exploits etc to his disadvantage as much as to his advantage. If somebody hex edits his character to have a 3 in all stats rather than an 18, he's still a hacker.

 

[Sceptic]

I am perfectly aware it doesn't have allied victories, and it in no way invalidates my point concerning a multitude of games that do. You are nitpicking and grasping for straws, and you know it.

I was trolling you actually, and that I perfectly well knew. What can I say, you really were asking for it. All you had to do was actually say "forget my Warlords example, replace it with game X and STFU". Which you STILL insist on not doing. Anyway it doesn't matter, because I've already stated my position (and which part of it is in agreement with yours) so there's no point in me continuing this game. Still (and I apologize for this one in advance; sorry, but I couldn't resist), I have one last bit to throw out:

ITT, Sceptic never played strategy games with allied or diplomatic victories.

Warlords 2 was the only strategy game I've played in mp with a group of people for a considerable amount of time

 

[MMXI]

That much is obvious again. I fail to see how the strength of party relates to the issue, however. As I said, one can use exploits etc to his disadvantage as much as to his advantage. If somebody hex edits his character to have a 3 in all stats rather than an 18, he's still a hacker.

Kind of funny how all your examples of exploits happen to involve hex editing when you need to do no such thing to play Baldur's Gate II in multiplayer.

 

[mondblut]

Warlords 2 was the only strategy game I've played in mp with a group of people for a considerable amount of time

When I do bother to socialize with people, let alone groups of them, playing computer games with them is the last thing to come to my mind. This I can perfectly do alone (and AI can engage into diplomacy and lasting alliances well enough), or over internet.

The Warlords stuff goes back to the time I was like 14-16 and we played it yearly on my classmate's birthdays, and a few times in between.

 

[mondblut]

Kind of funny how all your examples of exploits happen to involve hex editing when you need to do no such thing to play Baldur's Gate II in multiplayer.

A typical game offers enough ways to cripple oneself legitimately. Fine, if you too insist on nitpicking, how about using GB series export/import cloning exploit to arm every character with a -3 sword of missing everything? Is that less of an exploit than doing the same with a +3 sword of killing everybody?

 

[DraQ]

ITT:

Putting "multi" back in "multiplayer".

socialize

 

[ever]

I tend to sort of role play the character creation. Like I think of a character as a person I'd encounter and then create them with their strengths and weaknesses. On other playthroughs I use a different approach.

I do the same if I can recruit characters. Like in Baldur's Gate II I'd recruit all the fighters and fighter paladins and be a paladin myself on one play through but on another I'd focus on the mages, another be more mixed etc.

Also lol @ mondblut ( a jerk ) arguing with MMXI ( a very muddled thinker or jerk I can't tell )

 

[MMXI]

ITT:

Putting "multi" back in "multiplayer".

More like:

So this is the thread where mondblut realises you can make your own party in BG and goes ballistic?

 

[mondblut]

I only troll the likes of "ever" in GD. Sorry to disappoint my "supporters" ITT, but I've been dead serious. Well, as serious as I typically am.

And, "ever", me and MMXI and Sceptic can hold a different view on what constitutes an exploit and, as an extension, whether BG can be considered a game with legitimate out of the box party creation or not - but they are still bros and you are still a popamole-loving larper fag.

 

[Khor1255]

I think number two sums me up nicely. Even in games where close range combat skills are of marginal use I still like to have the ability to fight on that level.

I think the rest takes care of itself when you have an adept fighter character. If magic is present, the trait I most desire is resistance to magic.

 

[MMXI]

but they are still bros and you are still a popamole-loving larper fag.

 

[ever]

Yes we know I am all sorts of things I'm actually not according to you, mondblut.

I'm actually anti larping, and would like everything otherwise larped to be part of the actual gameplay. E.g. in Baldur's Gate you gotta larp eating food, in Ultima VII you gotta actually eat it. In the Realms of Arkania series you have to worry about blankets and shelter and stuff like that, in other games you gotta larp it.

I don't put much emphasis on combat in RPGs that's true. That's because I'm yet to play a single RPG with combat approaching anything like what you can find in the TBS or RTS genres. Instead its just completely terrible to mediocrish good across the board.

Anyway carry on with your bro love in or whatever.

 

[Sceptic]

me and MMXI and Sceptic can hold a different view on what constitutes an exploit and, as an extension, whether BG can be considered a game with legitimate out of the box party creation or not - but they are still bros

Ah fuck it, I just can't get mad, annoyed, angry, or anything other than warm and fuzzy about fellow Codexers, no matter how much I disagree with them. I love you guys. ALL of you

Well, there are some exceptions...