Decline "Call of Doom" - Doom 4 is fucked

[MapMan]

Carmack is sucking to console players, but at least he is the engine guy and really doesn't care about art/gameplay. Rage really showed the level of stagnation in the company. “Most of [Id’s] top talent has left or been fired" - After playing the game, I really can confirm that statement. It was mediocre at best, with hideous mega-texture system, and of course regen-health. The car racing elements didn't add much. The support for PC players was laughable, guys with AMD graphic cards were screwed. Bethesda now wants to make it more Skyrim-like, opened world? Interesting concept, and with mod tools it would be a game that could catch interest to many players. But if Id will bring another bland shooter I hope they'll disassemble the company, take some stuff to internal departments and finally give this developer a well deserved rest.

Except he totally does. Dig up his interviews about rage. He's still good old PC gamer at heart but he's also a business man and knows the market. I remember there was one long interview with him pre-rage where he admitted that him and artists literally CRIED over how they have to downsample textures and models. Then he went on to say how everything was colorful and nice looking and then BAM POST PROCESSING BABY! He's not an idiot, he realizes all this. Then in a post rage interview he stated that it was mistake to do a game trying to appeal all. It wasnt a cod clone, it wasnt a real pc game. Rage was something inbetween which in turn appealed to neither. Nor pc gamers, not consoletards. He regret that and said they should've focused on PC first and foremost.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/37768/Carmack_PC_Not_The_Leading_Platform_For_Games.php

Coming that from someone who buyed his first Ferrari thanks to PC gamers wasn't a middle finger? How many graphic options can you change in Rage?

Doom 3 was a "teleport monster opposite and behind me" and was mediocre. Mega textures looks very nice, but how many memory would you need for a maximum details? I like Carmack interviews, but when you see Unreal engine dominating, and even Source having bigger portfolio, there is something wrong. I hope that I'll be proven wrong with Doom 4.

You're completely misunderstanding the whole concept. He said consoles were the leading platform because it was true at the moment. They (id) probably sat down with suits from beth and it was simple: "look, here's how much profit our games make on PC and here's how much they make on consoles. We need to try to retain the PC audience but expand further into the consoles market. Rage has to have this, this and that". It was 100% pure business decision (in which he probably had little say) and later admitted that it was wrong decision. This world isn't built around Carmacks "wants" and "thinks". They made a mistake because they went neither full consoletard (would probably sell millions then) or full on PC (would probably get a long community following and could've have amazing multiplayer, maybe even esports). They wanted to do something inbetween and failed. A hard lesson Carmack learned on his own mistake - you can't appeal to everyone. Hopefully his games (according to what he said) should be targeted mainly at PC audiences.

Id Tech 5 isn't "dominating" anything because it's not used outside Beth. Again - probably not Carmacks call.

 

[DeepOcean]

Yeah, Romero need someone to make him take his medicine, that is why Doom and Quake are so good. Romero compensated for Camarck autism and Camarck compensated for Romero craziness and delusions of grandiosity.

 

[chestburster]

Yeah, Romero need someone to make him take his medicine, that is why Doom and Quake are so good. Romero compensated for Camarck autism and Camarck compensated for Romero craziness and delusions of grandiosity.

This.

 

[Stabwound]

Romero has been long lost in the world of casual game development, but it's true that he and Carmack did some amazing things together.

I doubt they have it in them to recreate Doom again, but it would be interesting to see them team up again for an FPS.

 

[Jaesun]

OLD SCHOOL FPS!

 

[tuluse]

 

[AngryKobold]

 

[MapMan]

Romero has been long lost in the world of casual game development, but it's true that he and Carmack did some amazing things together.

I doubt they have it in them to recreate Doom again, but it would be interesting to see them team up again for an FPS.

KICKSTARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA KICKSTARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Doom wasn't grimdark, it was over the top.

Grimdark and slow > Over the top Yank silliness.

 

[chestburster]

Romero has been long lost in the world of casual game development, but it's true that he and Carmack did some amazing things together.

I doubt they have it in them to recreate Doom again, but it would be interesting to see them team up again for an FPS.

If the movie industry can pull an Expendables to cash on people's nostalgia, I say that the game industry can do the same.

Bring the two Johns together and make a "homage" of Doom. I'm sure a lot of older gamers will pay.

 

[DraQ]

The biggest problem about B2 is that shooting parts aren't fun like in the original.

Nope. The biggest problem was that it had no fucking atmosphere whatsoever.

It turned into generic bad scifi shootan #478.

Don't forget about Unreal 2, since we are in shattering mood mode

 

[Average Manatee]

I have a confession to make. For some reason I heard that Unreal was cool, so I played Unreal 2 first and I thought it was a good game.

 

[DraQ]

I have a confession to make. For some reason I heard that Unreal was cool, so I played Unreal 2 first and I thought it was a good game.

You need to play U1 as well to grasp the magnitude of your mistake.

 

[Turjan]

In before Titanic disaster.

Now, now. Always this negativity. Didn't we just learn that the Titanic was an innovative submarine?

 

[DalekFlay]

It was 100% pure business decision.

Everything is a business decision but you can make money by selling to your core audience and keeping budgets in check. Most people here and most people who would call themselves Id fans want a nicer looking Doom 2 that focuses on gameplay, not some amazing "AAA" shit-show that focuses more on looking pretty and trying to sell 10 million copies so everyone involved ends up even more filthy rich than they already are.

It happens constantly in this industry, some success leads to reaching well beyond your expertise and audience for a brass ring and then falling down and looking stupid, pissing your core audience off and losing everything. The list is endless but the industry only sees the success stories like Blizzard and Infinity Ward, they don't see the countless failures.

Look at the coming Rise of the Triad reboot to see what people wanted from Id but didn't get.

 

[Average Manatee]

I have a confession to make. For some reason I heard that Unreal was cool, so I played Unreal 2 first and I thought it was a good game.

You need to play U1 as well to grasp the magnitude of your mistake.

Yes, that was the point at which I realized how stupid I was.

In my defense the only FPS I had played before Unreal 2 was DOOM.

 

[MapMan]

Grow up baby. What you want isn't exactly what the suits want or is the best to the company (in terms of revenue and what not). You know what other list is endless? The list of great developers stuck doing browser based social mmos. Why do you think, for example, a guy like Fargo was stuck doing shit smears for years? Oh wait, but there's another list! A list of games that were acclaimed by both critics and gamers, got cult following yet sold shit and forced the developers to go out of business. Jesus, trying to explain how business works to you (and that not everyone always does what he would rather do) is like trying to describe Pollocks no. 5 to Stevie Wonder.

 

[tuluse]

Why do you think, for example, a guy like Fargo was stuck doing shit smears for years?

Because he borrowed huge amounts of money to make 90s version of popamole.

Black Isle Studios were always profitable.

 

[AngryKobold]

It's possible to fuck up many things. RPGs. Adventures. Strategies. Complicated things, risky, no safe. I get it. But... Doom? Doom, of all games?!

Here you go, a recipe:
Make a nonlinear maze. Put there weapons and medkits. Put there monsters. Make player go from point A to point B. Make sure an eight- years old brat gets lost and dies in five minutes at hard difficulty. Multiply by twenty. Voila.

It's like fucking up boiling water!

Seeing it getting done by Id themselves is an irony of cosmic scale. So big, there's its own gravity bending the light.

The rumors crack me up.

“There was not only effectively another creative reboot, but a tech reboot,” said another source. Although this wasn't officially a reboot of the game, there was a new team and new code, so for some staff it felt like one.

“[Id] started from the Rage code base, and took some big leaps back in certain areas of tech. [Id] spent a lot of time merging Doom features to Rage.”

Jokes about repeating Daikatana are writing themselves.

 

[AngryEddy]

Until PC's can handle 1k monsters on screen shooting 1080p fireballs and explosions with modern graphics, we will never see a true Doom game.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

a carmack and romero tryst is literally the only thing i'd ever pledge to on kickstarter.

 

[lophiaspis]

They literally said that Doom4 should be as big as Skyrim? That's some EA/Squeenix level retardation. Id is dead.

And good riddance. They could never compete on EPIC CINEMATIC EXPERIENCES and REALISTIC IMMERSIVE WORLDS modeled by 800 asset monkeys. Trying to keep up with that AAA rapetrain is why id sucks now. The only thing that makes sense for Carmack is to go indie and make a procedural FPS. Hi-tech lo-fi, like Planetary Annihilation. Yesterday's design with tomorrow's engine. Not just a rehash but a cross between Doom, Quake and Nethack. The roguelike model holds the key to perfecting the oldschool singleplayer FPS. No plot, no cinematics, no voiceacting, no realistic assets, just infinite levels, infinite demons, shotguns and a VR helmet. Random, abstract, maze-like levels + complex monster AI + System Shock 2 conservation mechanics + Space Invaders difficulty + Permadeath + Oculus Rift = most intense game ever. Who knows, it could even be as big as Skyrim. Certainly a better investment than Doom 4 let alone Rage.

 

[Trash]

a carmack and romero tryst is literally the only thing i'd ever pledge to on kickstarter.

Well, not the only thing but I would pledge without even blinking. Carmack without Romero is just an autistic nerd who likes to sit around and toy with gizmos. Romero without Carmack is just a wierd dude with a bad haircut. Together however...

 

[fizzelopeguss]

a carmack and romero tryst is literally the only thing i'd ever pledge to on kickstarter.

Together however...

A star was born.

 

[Jarpie]

Doom 1 and 2 are very much "children of their time" and they can't be replicated imo, also like Kevin Smith said about his early films; he could never replicate Clerks or Chasing Amy because he is different kind of person now than he was when he made his early films and same applies to Carmack and Romero; they were lot younger back then with different sensibilities and views and they're not able to make another Doom 1/2-like game even if they wanted.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

they were also products of the 90's, that heavy metal vibe is long gone.

 

[Konjad]

Doom 3 was already a piece of crap, so I don't give a damn what kind of game will Doom 4 be. I didn't buy RAGE nor will I buy Doom 4. I enjoyed old Dooms when I was a kid, but I doubt I would today. These kind of games don't appeal to me anymore.

 

[msxyz]

According to one source, Id originally imagined Doom 4 as a “rework” of Doom 2

They referenced it because of the amount it was scripted—there were a lot of scripted set pieces

After Doom 3 it was clear that something bad is happening with Id. But how do you rework Doom 2 and make it scripted? It's not rework, more like rerape. Probably with limited weapons.

Carmack is sucking to console players, but at least he is the engine guy and really doesn't care about art/gameplay. Rage really showed the level of stagnation in the company. “Most of [Id’s] top talent has left or been fired" - After playing the game, I really can confirm that statement. It was mediocre at best, with hideous mega-texture system, and of course regen-health. The car racing elements didn't add much. The support for PC players was laughable, guys with AMD graphic cards were screwed. Bethesda now wants to make it more Skyrim-like, opened world? Interesting concept, and with mod tools it would be a game that could catch interest to many players. But if Id will bring another bland shooter I hope they'll disassemble the company, take some stuff to internal departments and finally give this developer a well deserved rest.

If iD ever manage to complete Doom 4, they should add a secret alcove somewhere with Duke Nukem dismembered body. It's amazing how two industry veterans like Scott Miller and Geroge Broussard could fuck up so badly DNF bringing down the entire company in the process.

 

[Infinitron]

They wouldn't be the first early 90s era "industry veterans" who failed to adapt to the changing nature of the industry.