Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

BioWare rush DA2; blame release date for bad sales.

Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
6,207
Location
The island of misfit mascots
Befuddled Halfling said:
Xor said:
Who won that argument? I can't tell.

Volly did. DA2 sold over 2m copies per the EA Q4 investor call. They'd lie to game journos, but not to investors, where their accounts are audited by KPMG.

So............
If it's at 2m SOLD at 1 and 3/4 months from release, then DA2 is now officially a reasonable success. So evidently people did NOT want more than 2 stats per class. Or encounters that were designed, rather than spawned. They did not want to change companion armor. They did NOT want crafting. They DID want a reduction in the number of skills and spells. They did not want non combat skills. They DID want a dialog wheel that just gave you the 'cocksucker', 'wiseass', and 'cunt' option of saying exactly the same thing that led to exactly the same recycled corridor. They DID want a cinematic every time they walked 5 steps.

Gaider was therefore right - the shitstorm on the BioBoards was just by a bunch of old school PC elitists afraid of change. An obnoxious, vocal, minority. And maybe the metacritic bomb was a 4 chan raid. Either way, this is exactly the motivation that BIO needs to never even try making core RPGs again. And that means we'll have some real Codex- style fun when DA3 is released.
:yeah:
DA3 should be so retarded, it ought to be almost at ArcaniA levels and even Volly might have a hard time defending its honor. Bring on 2012!

A decent proportion of those sales were pre-orders or first fortnight purchases, meaning that they reflect the consumers' opinion of DA1 rather than DA2 (even more so if most consumers don't closely follow online game analysis). If you were just an average consumer, with no information other than (a) the previous Bioware games, (b) marketing hype and (c) mainstream reviews/previews, you're going to judge it mainly on (a) previous Bioware games, especially DA1. DA2's qualities aren't going to enter into the decision, because they're unknown to most consumers at the time of purchase.

What's more, a company with as well-established a fanbase as Bioware (we might not like them, but to most crpg fans they are godlike) isn't going to lose that fanbase from 1 disappointing game. So even if folks hated DA2, I'd still expect great sales for ME3 and solid sales for DA3.

What it does mean is that IF consumers are dissatisfied, Bioware's sales would not reveal that yet. So they have no reason to change their current hypothesis (that simplification = more profit), and so yes DA3 will probably continue in the same manner as DA2.

As for sales reflecting consumer satisfaction, this isn't soft drinks. With most consumer goods, the customers repurchase the good on a regular basis. A coka-cola fan might buy, say, 100 cans a year. If Coke suddenly changed the production and folks didn't like it, that consumer might stop buying them after 3 cans - hence the dissatisfaction will be IMMEDIATELY reflected in consumer behaviour.

With computer games, each person only buys each game once. Then they wait a couple of years and buy a different game from the same company. If coka-cola makes crap coke, its fans immediately stop their purchasing cycle. Yet if every single fan was to outright cease Bioware purchasing (massively unlikely) that STILL wouldn't show up in sales until 2 years later when the next game comes out. And as I said, folks aren't going to stop buying Bioware games just because they thought one game was below expectations.

Instead, consumer dissatisfaction is only going to flow into diminished sales over a long-term trend. If Bioware was to repeatedly put out games that the market was dissatisfied with, then maybe over their next 3-5 games their sales would drop noticeably. And in the converse of this relationship, it would then be very very difficult to raise those sales again - it would take a similar run of games that surpassed consumer expectations to lift the sales back.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Azrael the cat said:
A decent proportion of those sales were pre-orders or first fortnight purchases, meaning that they reflect the consumers' opinion of DA1 rather than DA2 (even more so if most consumers don't closely follow online game analysis). If you were just an average consumer, with no information other than (a) the previous Bioware games, (b) marketing hype and (c) mainstream reviews/previews, you're going to judge it mainly on (a) previous Bioware games, especially DA1. DA2's qualities aren't going to enter into the decision, because they're unknown to most consumers at the time of purchase.

What's more, a company with as well-established a fanbase as Bioware (we might not like them, but to most crpg fans they are godlike) isn't going to lose that fanbase from 1 disappointing game. So even if folks hated DA2, I'd still expect great sales for ME3 and solid sales for DA3.

What it does mean is that IF consumers are dissatisfied, Bioware's sales would not reveal that yet. So they have no reason to change their current hypothesis (that simplification = more profit), and so yes DA3 will probably continue in the same manner as DA2.

As for sales reflecting consumer satisfaction, this isn't soft drinks. With most consumer goods, the customers repurchase the good on a regular basis. A coka-cola fan might buy, say, 100 cans a year. If Coke suddenly changed the production and folks didn't like it, that consumer might stop buying them after 3 cans - hence the dissatisfaction will be IMMEDIATELY reflected in consumer behaviour.

With computer games, each person only buys each game once. Then they wait a couple of years and buy a different game from the same company. If coka-cola makes crap coke, its fans immediately stop their purchasing cycle. Yet if every single fan was to outright cease Bioware purchasing (massively unlikely) that STILL wouldn't show up in sales until 2 years later when the next game comes out. And as I said, folks aren't going to stop buying Bioware games just because they thought one game was below expectations.

Instead, consumer dissatisfaction is only going to flow into diminished sales over a long-term trend. If Bioware was to repeatedly put out games that the market was dissatisfied with, then maybe over their next 3-5 games their sales would drop noticeably. And in the converse of this relationship, it would then be very very difficult to raise those sales again - it would take a similar run of games that surpassed consumer expectations to lift the sales back.

:salute:
This.

I wanted to raise this point, but since I wouldn't post such a detailed analysis, I will just limit myself to :bro: and condensing it into tl;dr:

Lolno, gaming market has a lot of inertia.
 

Black

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
1,872,662
LOOKS LIKE THEY BETTER GET USED TO IT
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/3451 ... ffense.php

"That means focusing on three aggressive core strategies moving forward.

The first, he said, is pushing EA's stable of popular IP, including FIFA, Madden, Battlefield, Need for Speed, The Sims, Tetris, Dragon Age and other titles. The company will also leverage the popularity of labels such as EA Sports and its casual Pogo brand.

"We fully intend to make these properties into year-round businesses that lead their sectors across a range of platforms," Riccitiello said."

:yeah: :rage: :decline: :incline:
 

piydek

Cipher
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
Messages
819
Location
Croatia
Volourn said:
This 'massive failure' known as DA2 has now surpassed 2mil sold. It's onyl am matter ofm tiem before it passes by while giving the finger to overrated tripe like KOTOR and past it's prime shit like BG.

HAHAHAHA!

A 2mil+ selling game is a failure? The butthurt from anti DA2 trolls are hilarious espicially the crying crowd on the DA2 forums. I thinK DA2 raped their fmaily. FFS

Then again,t herse are the tools who like tor ate DA1 10/10. HAHAHA!


R00fles!

The Volourn i remember always was roofletastic and volournish, but has always had some kind of a point. Now, Volourn is just a complete fucking retard, not even mildly amusing let alone anything else. You've managed to outgrow pretty princess into a pure-bred dumbfuck.
 

Gay-Lussac

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
7,563
Location
Your mom
CappenVarra said:
Yes, if DA2 has any sales, customer satisfaction or market perception issues, they're caused by: 4chan trolls, codex trolls, that new chair with the fucked-up right arm rest (so it's hard to concentrate on quality writing while sitting in it), the false son of a false god being born 3 months too early to boost game sales, a stray neutrino passing through the bank's computers and mysteriously removing about $ 10 million of well-deserved revenue, game release falling on the unluckiest day of the Mayan calendar, Caesar getting murdered on the Ides of March (just in time to steal major media attention from the DA2 release), etc. Pretty much, anything except the game being banal shit boring and not worth giving money to untalented hacks for. Ahem.

:lol:
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Messages
188
Azrael the cat said:
Instead, consumer dissatisfaction is only going to flow into diminished sales over a long-term trend. If Bioware was to repeatedly put out games that the market was dissatisfied with, then maybe over their next 3-5 games their sales would drop noticeably. And in the converse of this relationship, it would then be very very difficult to raise those sales again - it would take a similar run of games that surpassed consumer expectations to lift the sales back.

Yup. The problem is that ME3 will be a huge success because of kung fu kicks http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Ma...Swat-Turn-Mechs-Faster-Combat-More-31485.html Tali's pussy, and lense flare. So all BIOgames this year (not counting SWTOR) will be severely dumbed down, pretend to be RPGs like nothing happened, and still sell well. By the time all that feeds through into future financials and they realize they lost a huge chunk of their regular customers by going this route, EA won't be willing to give them 3 years to work on a new title that will rebuild their reputation. Come to daddy for merger-time :twisted:
 

Captain Shrek

Guest
DA2 did not sale those 2M units to customers. EA 'sold' them to retailers. Such sales are essentially short term 'loans'. If there are any accountants out here they would know. Such loans are repaid when the vendor makes a profit on the actual sale. If he can't make a profit the manufacturer gives either an extension on the loan or a discount on the purchase (or other deal). Publishers don't sell games to us. They sell them to RETAILERS like Amazon, Gamestop and Steam. These channels then sell games to people.

This difference is cleverly used by manufacturers world-wide to inflate stock-prices. Why? Because the real source of money (as in funding) is never DIRECT PROFIT FROM SALES OF A PRODUCT (unless you are Microsoft) but the public investment in your stocks.
 

Twinkle

Liturgist
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
1,426
Location
Lands of Entitlement
ME3 will be a huge success

Are you sure? Popamole crowd will be busy with Gears of War 3 and the next CoD, RPG "fans" will be burned out on Rimjob. Moving the release date away from the holiday season + Riccitiello's words are not so subtle hints that EA doesn't believe much in its commercial potential and is scared away of the competition.

And 2M units shipped is a rather low result for a heavily hyped multiplatform game from a top publisher.
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
ME is made by a different company, and ME2 was miles above ME1 despite being dumbed down.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,924
"The Volourn i remember always was roofletastic and volournish, but has always had some kind of a point. Now, Volourn is just a complete fucking retard, not even mildly amusing let alone anything else. You've managed to outgrow pretty princess into a pure-bred dumbfuck."

The butthurt is huge in this one? Yes,m yes it is.


"The Volourn i remember always was roofletastic and volournish, but has always had some kind of a point. Now, Volourn is just a complete fucking retard, not even mildly amusing let alone anything else. You've managed to outgrow pretty princess into a pure-bred dumbfuck."

u on crack
 

Pablosdog

Prophet
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
1,879
Volourn said:
"The Volourn i remember always was roofletastic and volournish, but has always had some kind of a point. Now, Volourn is just a complete fucking retard, not even mildly amusing let alone anything else. You've managed to outgrow pretty princess into a pure-bred dumbfuck."

The butthurt is huge in this one? Yes,m yes it is.


"The Volourn i remember always was roofletastic and volournish, but has always had some kind of a point. Now, Volourn is just a complete fucking retard, not even mildly amusing let alone anything else. You've managed to outgrow pretty princess into a pure-bred dumbfuck."

u on crack

Volly doing what volly does best :love:
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Messages
188
Befuddled Halfling said:
Xor said:
Who won that argument? I can't tell.

Volly did. DA2 sold over 2m copies per the EA Q4 investor call. They'd lie to game journos, but not to investors, where their accounts are audited by KPMG.

So............
If it's at 2m SOLD at 1 and 3/4 months from release

Captain Shrek is right - what I wrote here turned out to be bullshit based on a gaming journo's summary of the call (and he fell into EA's word-trap). I just checked the actual investor release. DA2 "sold-in" 2 million. So that's the number that was shipped to all the retail outlets and may be sitting on shelves waiting for retards.

Under a sell-in. EA will usually have to buy back from the retailer any copies of DA2 that never get sold to retards. So we have no idea at all how many were sold, other than VG Chartz.

VOLLY -- WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU PLAYING AT??? YOU MUST HAVE READ THE FULL EA RELEASE AND DELIBERATELY PLANTED THIS SMOKE AND MIRRORS SHIT. THEY DID NOT SELL 2M COPIES OF DA2 - PERIOD. HONESTLY, LYING NOW TO DEFEND DA2???

(PS Apologies Captain Shrek - I just assumed that it was inevitable that they'd find 2m retards who'd buy this)
 

hoverdog

dog that is hovering, Wastelands Interactive
Developer
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
5,589
Location
Jordan, Minnesota
Project: Eternity
Befuddled Halfling said:
Befuddled Halfling said:
Xor said:
Who won that argument? I can't tell.

Volly did. DA2 sold over 2m copies per the EA Q4 investor call. They'd lie to game journos, but not to investors, where their accounts are audited by KPMG.

So............
If it's at 2m SOLD at 1 and 3/4 months from release

Captain Shrek is right - what I wrote here turned out to be bullshit based on a gaming journo's summary of the call (and he fell into EA's word-trap). I just checked the actual investor release. DA2 "sold-in" 2 million. So that's the number that was shipped to all the retail outlets and may be sitting on shelves waiting for retards.

Under a sell-in. EA will usually have to buy back from the retailer any copies of DA2 that never get sold to retards. So we have no idea at all how many were sold, other than VG Chartz.

VOLLY -- WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU PLAYING AT??? YOU MUST HAVE READ THE FULL EA RELEASE AND DELIBERATELY PLANTED THIS SMOKE AND MIRRORS SHIT. THEY DID NOT SELL 2M COPIES OF DA2 - PERIOD. HONESTLY, LYING NOW TO DEFEND DA2???

(PS Apologies Captain Shrek - I just assumed that it was inevitable that they'd find 2m retards who'd buy this)

bullshitz! whyd o you lie moran? r00fles!
 

Kaanyrvhok

Arbiter
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
1,096
To my knowledge vgchartz uses the same methods for every game so one thing that isnt going to change is scale. After 8 weeks they had Origins selling over2 million and DA II at about 1.3 million.
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
Kaanyrvhok said:
To my knowledge vgchartz uses the same methods for every game so one thing that isnt going to change is scale. After 8 weeks they had Origins selling over2 million and DA II at about 1.3 million.
VGChartz also use little more than guesswork plus officially-released statistics to create their estimates. It's been proven on multiple occasions in the past that they had inflated or underestimated the sales of certain games by upwards of 100%. There is nothing at all to suggest that they remain consistent between games, as evidenced by the fact that they often adjust their numbers to reflect NDP numbers. The owners of the company also refuse to add a proper disclaimer that their numbers are basically just made up, refuse to reveal the details of their methodology (because that would expose them as frauds), and ultimately to admit that their true goal is to exploit the latent fanboyism in gamers for the purpose of making ludicrous amounts of ad revenue. The only time they give a flying fuck about "accuracy" is when their numbers are called into question by far more authoritative sources.
 

alcoholbob

Novice
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
3
1.3 million sold at week 7 is a reasonable estimate for 2 million copies shipped per EA Profit/Loss Report.

I mean how far can vgchartz be off there? It's at week 9 right now. It'll probably be amended to around 1.4 million copies.

And Volourn is the biggest DA2 apologist ever; he trolls the Bioware forums and slams anyone who has anything negative to say about the game. He talks about how amazing it's evolved the RPG genre.

DAO on the other hand, is at 3.7 million life-time sales...Jedi Master Laidlaw stated it sold 3.5 million during the DA2 hype campaign and talked about 10 million for DA2...
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
Patron
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
37,258
Location
Seattle, WA USA
MCA
We already had this discussion before. VGCharts are about as accurate as you or me pulling a number out of our ass. They are NOT actual sales numbers. They are just numbers.

Here is a randomly selected number: 4

There you go. Thats as accurate as VGCharts.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,924
"And Volourn is the biggest DA2 apologist ever; he trolls the Bioware forums and slams anyone who has anything negative to say about the game. He talks about how amazing it's evolved the RPG genre. "

Why lie?

Did you read my Codex review?

If I troll and bash anyone with negative thoughts about DA2 I'd be trolling and bashing myself.

LMFAO

p.s. DA2 has sold 2mil. Deal with it butthurt crybabies. Only a matter fo time befoe it passes oevrrated shit like KOTOR and past its prime not as good as it used to be BG1.

FUCK YEAHHHH!!!


"I mean how far can vgchartz be off there?"

Extremely. You shoudlr eally read that 'defending vghchartz artcile'. There was one game that vghchart has listed as a bomb with about .5 sales and later on NPD came along and stated game was a hit with 1.5m sales.

You knoww hat vghcartz reaction was? They didn't dispute NPD's numbers at all. In fact, they just randomly changed their number to match NPD. It'sa fukkin' joke when vghcartz doesn't even trust their own fukkin' research but simply copiesm the 'competition's.

Yet, peopel take these tools seriously/ HA!
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,692
Comparing it to sales of games much older than itself, much less those from the 1990s where PC gaming was not yet mainstream culture, is kind of amusing. Nevermind that within two weeks DA2 was being packaged with Mass Effect 2, a clear sign of strong sales, surely.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom