Best non-squad (fantasy) TBS games?

[Shannow]

Okay, a question for the disciples trainees here:
what determines who can hit first? I tought if I attack, I hit first, right?
Is there an agility parameter involved somewhere?

'Cause I'd like to take out the fucking archer who keeps on killing my apprentice mage on one hit (5mins in the campaign, talking about the boat and the arger with one thug there). If I win that battle, I can take on the master thug since my units will upgrade. Any tips? My hero screams "attack!" but I don't attack, they do, and my unit dies. In other battles, sometimes I got to go first. Hmm.

Edit: also, how am I supposed to kill the Ogre without losing any units? That's insane he does one hit kills even to my knights... :evil:

there is an initiative stat. it is usually highest for ranged units like archers thugs and elves also have hight initiative. right-click on unit-potraits should bring up stats.
if you are a warlord your units will regenerate 15% of their hitpoints per turn. you can also use spells or potions to heal them. if you have a temple in your fortress, you can heal units for a price.
if a unit is too tough in the beginning, try pelting it with spells, come back later or simply sacrifice a unit. (save and reload also helps )

 

[jefklak]

I managed to swipe the map quite effectively after I learned how to use spells and the increased initiative (+10%) one. All units have been upgraded: I have two split teams, a ranger with two knights and a cleric, plus a winged knight as hero and two knights plus a mage. They kick damned legion butt, I killed three of their units in one turn lol :D

Some more questsions:
- Why can't I further upgrade the buildings/units? Is this campaign bound?
- Why can't I carry more than three units with one hero? Not all slots (6) can be occupied somehow
- How many heroes should I have? How many rod planters? This seems to be rather important, the enemy planted these things all over the place and I didn't even know what they did (I do know, eliminated his rods and used my own).
- How the HECK are you supposed to defeat the enemy capital? There's a HUGE guardian waiting for me, and I cannot defeat him...


Shit this game is addictive, I really like!

 

[Ladonna]

Warlords 5 is being worked on (Warlords 4 is not good...in fact it does not exist! :shock: ).
http://www.warlorders.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=15&

http://www.infinite-interactive.com/W5d ... load&cid=1

Get on board and see if you can suggest anything. I loved 1, 2 and 3.

 

[LCJr.]

I managed to swipe the map quite effectively after I learned how to use spells and the increased initiative (+10%) one. All units have been upgraded: I have two split teams, a ranger with two knights and a cleric, plus a winged knight as hero and two knights plus a mage. They kick damned legion butt, I killed three of their units in one turn lol :D

Some more questsions:
- Why can't I further upgrade the buildings/units? Is this campaign bound?
- Why can't I carry more than three units with one hero? Not all slots (6) can be occupied somehow
- How many heroes should I have? How many rod planters? This seems to be rather important, the enemy planted these things all over the place and I didn't even know what they did (I do know, eliminated his rods and used my own).
- How the HECK are you supposed to defeat the enemy capital? There's a HUGE guardian waiting for me, and I cannot defeat him...


Shit this game is addictive, I really like!

1. Yes
2. IIRC you have a Leadership stat.
3. As many as you feel you need. Just keep in mind it's probably better to have a few high level parties vs. many low level.

I'd say # of rod bearers depends on the map size and how often the AI is killing them off. The Damned can probably get away with fewer since theirs flys.
4. High level parties and magic. Or move multiple parties to the city. Attack with one damage him and retreat then send in the next.

 

[jefklak]

Doesn't retreating kill your regular units?
Ill try it in a minute, thanks.

 

[LCJr.]

Doesn't retreating kill your regular units?
Ill try it in a minute, thanks.

IIRC the enemy gets a free shot at them. If you have a temple you can ressurect anyone that's killed. So as long as one person survives you can raise the rest of the group. Better in my opinion to lose money than experienced units.

I don't know if it makes any difference but I have the Fantasy Pack edition.
Disciples 2
Dark Prophecy
Servants of the Dark
Guardians of the Light

I bought it just to get Prince of Qin LOL.

 

[Ryuken]

The freakin' Warlords III demo refuses to run here on winXP.
Even with the tricks google gives me. Fuck it.

Also this trick? => "E:\Program Files\Red Orb Entertainment\Warlords III - Darklords Rising\Darklord.exe" -wincurs , should be the command line with the exe file. Works for the full version of WL3:Darlords Rising at least.

 

[nikpalj]

I've played HoMM3 a lot 10 years ago. Now I'm interested in that Shadow Magic tbs. Could you guys do a small comparision, in which ways is it different from HoMM3, so that I know what to expect...

 

[Top Hat]

I've played HoMM3 a lot 10 years ago. Now I'm interested in that Shadow Magic tbs. Could you guys do a small comparision, in which ways is it different from HoMM3, so that I know what to expect...

The first major difference is that each "unit" in Shadow Magic is just that - a unit. There aren't the huge armies going at it like in HOMM. You can group units (up to 8 I think) which move as one by having all the units on the same grid point, and if there are any armies situated around the army you are attacking, they will be involved in the battle as well.

The second difference is magic. The spell system is much more varied in Shadow Magic. For example, you are able to summon creatures that roam around the adventure map like regular units (although they need to be maintained by mana) - in fact, there are a lot of multi-turn spells which have a mana upkeep. You can also only cast spells in your zone of control - basically anywhere where you have a hero with the right skill and in the immediate surrounding area, as well as around any magic towers (if your main wizard-whatever unit is in the tower). You also have to research spells individually - kind of like the technologies in Civilization. Some spells will take multiple turns to cast as well.

I think that most non-summoned creatures and structures require upkeep per turn. However, I think that there is only gold and mana in the way of resource management.

I think that the adventure map is made up of hexagons rather than squares, although this only really matters when you are surrounding an enemy for a multi-pronged attack.

In the battles, the heroes fight rather than sit back and cast spells and whatnot. It's done much better here than in HOMM4. Also, spells aren't cast by the heroes usually (unless they have the skill) - you usually get a spell per turn from your main wizard in the wizard tower (if you're in the zone of control and have enough mana).

 

[jefklak]

The freakin' Warlords III demo refuses to run here on winXP.
Even with the tricks google gives me. Fuck it.

Also this trick? => "E:\Program Files\Red Orb Entertainment\Warlords III - Darklords Rising\Darklord.exe" -wincurs , should be the command line with the exe file. Works for the full version of WL3:Darlords Rising at least.

Nope, that was the one I found. Tough luck
I'll try to pick it up for cheap at ebay some day. Am having a lot of fun with DII right now so might take a while.


Top Hat, another difference between age of wonders II series (including Shadow magic) and HoMM(III) - units can roam in the map without a hero who's seen as the avatar, which makes it easier to create multiple groups without hiring additional heroes or so. Sieging a town is much more interesting that way. I didn't play much III yet, so I'm not sure. There are thankfully a lot less resources to handle yes indeed, but the enemy loves to raid your supplies a lot more often. No more stupid sulfur and coal and whatnot.
Also, in battles, ranged units are limited by distance and can hit your own units if they are blocking their aim (indicated by a colored bullet-line). I don't know if this is the case for HoMM. Downside: it really sucks to see ranged units miss if they only have one shot, and they miss a lot more often, which renders them semi-useless.

 

[Top Hat]

Top Hat, another difference between age of wonders II series (including Shadow magic) and HoMM(III) - units can roam in the map without a hero who's seen as the avatar, which makes it easier to create multiple groups without hiring additional heroes or so.

I thought I mentioned this in an earlier post, and don't want to always repeat myself.

Sieging a town is much more interesting that way. I didn't play much III yet, so I'm not sure.

Yes, you're right. They TRIED it in HOMM IV, but failed because they copied the AI from III instead of designing a new one. Amongst many other failings they made in their mad dash for cash.

There are thankfully a lot less resources to handle yes indeed, but the enemy loves to raid your supplies a lot more often. No more stupid sulfur and coal and whatnot.

Personally, I like lots of different resources. I wish that they were more unique (say instead of paying money for skeletons you needed sulfur or gems or something to maintain them; or you could use crystals to improve artifacts; more crap like this).

One thing that the Heroes games really could have put to their advantage was having a decent economy simulator for all those different resources: one team could have all of the sulfur mines, so you'd have to pay a lot more to get sulfur than if you had your own supply.

Also, in battles, ranged units are limited by distance and can hit your own units if they are blocking their aim (indicated by a colored bullet-line). I don't know if this is the case for HoMM. Downside: it really sucks to see ranged units miss if they only have one shot, and they miss a lot more often, which renders them semi-useless.

Yeah, I forgot this. There's also a penalty for trying to shoot over walls.

I think in the later Heroes games (IV and V do, I think III might do) have a simple (in IV's case, completely screwed up) distance penalty algorithm, but you can't accidentally shoot your own people (unless you have the magogs in your army in Heroes III, and that's more of a side effect).

 

[Shannow]

- How many heroes should I have? How many rod planters? This seems to be rather important, the enemy planted these things all over the place and I didn't even know what they did (I do know, eliminated his rods and used my own).
- How the HECK are you supposed to defeat the enemy capital? There's a HUGE guardian waiting for me, and I cannot defeat him...


Shit this game is addictive, I really like!

i usually only used one hero for exploring and taking to the next map. the others were only used to keep the enemy down, after i've beaten their stronger parties.
you're not actually supposed to defeat the guardians i cannot remember a single map where this was required.

 

[jefklak]

Whoops! I tought I had to eleminate all enemy cities.
The quest log is _VERY_ unclear.

Edit: finished first map, yay. Couple of units got killed with the boss but after I noticed you can only pick one hero and a couple of units to the next area, that doesn't really matter. that's a bit unfair as you tend to "kamikaze" a lot more towards the end of the map.

 

[GrudgeHolder]

- How many heroes should I have? How many rod planters? This seems to be rather important, the enemy planted these things all over the place and I didn't even know what they did (I do know, eliminated his rods and used my own).
- How the HECK are you supposed to defeat the enemy capital? There's a HUGE guardian waiting for me, and I cannot defeat him...


Shit this game is addictive, I really like!

i usually only used one hero for exploring and taking to the next map. the others were only used to keep the enemy down, after i've beaten their stronger parties.
you're not actually supposed to defeat the guardians i cannot remember a single map where this was required.

As for the number of heroes, I usually go with just one ubar guy to blitzkrieg any opposition and collect mad xp and artifacts (often a scout, as they're the fastest), + a mage to use up the scrolls, a couple rod guys, and a thief to loot all the stores in the map. I never buy, I only steal :D
On L/XL maps I usually buy one or two extra heroes in midgame, as placeholders.
Taking out the guardian in the capital is necessary, I think, in some campaign maps (they're gimped for that - like 10% of the regular hitpoints) - but when your main hero gets to at least level 10, along with some of his troops (depending on the race), and you have some nice items in your inventory, I really love to buff the guys up with spells, potions, and standards, and just go in and smash the place. As I wrote, the combat can last 30+ rounds (when the guardian has 900 hp and the max damage per round your guys can do to him is at ~30), but it's pure awesomeness.

 

[DaViLLaN]

I basically use the same strategy as GrudgeHolder, except that I never looted stores becuaes I didnt know that you could!! DAMN. I rarely use theives, but I think I will have to change that.

Another thing I do is to get another Hero when I can afford one and use him to take out the AI rodplanters, thiefs, small parties that get sent into my territory like every other turn. IT takes alot of turns but eventually the party will gain a few levels.
Then I use that party to soften the capital defenders before I bring in my main hero.


GrudgeHolder, If you dont mind, post your opinion on that mod when you get the chance.Just in case there was some stuff in there that I didnt notice.

 

[GrudgeHolder]

I basically use the same strategy as GrudgeHolder, except that I never looted stores becuaes I didnt know that you could!! DAMN. I rarely use theives, but I think I will have to change that.

:D
At your service, man. BTW - did you try poisoning cities? Just thought I'd ask...

GrudgeHolder, If you dont mind, post your opinion on that mod when you get the chance.Just in case there was some stuff in there that I didnt notice.

May take a while - I'm currently plowing through JA2: Wildfire for the first time and enjoying myself immensely. But count on it... eventually.

 

[DaViLLaN]

Well, good luck with Wildfire. Its f'in HARD.
You playing 5.0 or 6.0??

 

[GrudgeHolder]

Well, good luck with Wildfire. Its f'in HARD.
You playing 5.0 or 6.0??

Ver. 6.04. I'm not very far in, I admit, but it wasn't all that hard yet (although the attacks on mine sites are persistent - a good thing, too, IMO, "realistic").

 

[jefklak]

Okay, I just noticed wildfire is *not* included in JA2 Gold. Shit
(Unfinished Business is, but I guess that's too small to consider a good expansion?)
Edit: great, no version nowhere to be found, except fucking Germanized.

 

[JoKa]

WF isn't really worth it though - rather try one of the free mods like urban chaos (quite hard, but fun...) and the like.

after playing the 'normal' mods, switch to 1.13, the ultimate mod for JA2 and never turn back