Baldur's Gate Beamdog's Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 Enhanced Editions

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Gosh, what an ENHANCED dialog screen. I'm so happy that I can only see 3 freaking dialog options at a time (depending on the amount of NPC dialog). Thanks, Beamcrud!

 

[Chippy]

Gosh, what an ENHANCED dialog screen. I'm so happy that I can only see 3 freaking dialog options at a time (depending on the amount of NPC dialog). Thanks, Beamcrud!

Bravo sir. Bravo.

This is just the autist in me - but I was studying that picture and could identify x4 pairs of boobs; I take it Khalid is wearing a certain girdle?.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

This is just the autist in me - but I was studying that picture and could identify x4 pairs of boobs; I take it Khalid is wearing a certain girdle?.

I always give him the girdle for maximum cuck.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Btw, I wouldn't have been so hard on Beamdog if they

a) were trying to keep the BG series as true to the originals as possible.
b) made all their additions etc truly optional.
c) had a vision of truly building more BG-style games and/or a proper sequel instead of giving us the SOD that no one asked for.
d) didn't put gender politics or SJW politics in general into their games.
e) let us purchase the normal version separately for cheaper.

 

[Citizen]

e) let us purchase the normal version separately for cheaper.

My main gripe with EE is that it's a dirty thing to do, to take an old classic and replace the original with your version. I wouldn't care enough to post there if they were sold separately.

Imagine someone taking a classical painting for restoration, but instead drawing few additional details and destroying the original or just hiding it from the public view. 'We added the adam's apple and a chest tatoo to the Mona Lisa:EE to reintroduce Da Vinci to modern crowd!'

 

[Strange Fellow]

The original versions are bundled with the EEs, aren't they?

 

[ItsChon]

I was busy yesterday and didn't get a chance to look at the thread.

BG1 is a great game and it would be hard to make it a truly awful experience. It's just that the rest of us have no interest in paying double price for a bunch of changes that mostly range between mediocre, dumb, and insignificant.

Did you play original BG?

I played it extremely briefly when I was younger and trying to get into the series. I think I was around 14 or 15. The low resolution and UI was enough to make me stop playing at that age. I'm willing to admit that the original might have been a better version than the Enhanced Edition once you've modded it to your liking; my issue is that people are blowing up the flaws in the EE to make it out as if it's absolutely shit and hasn't done anything well. If it wasn't for the mods, the EE would be an improvement over the original BG, and even with the mods, it does other things that are good for the genre. Also, here is a quick run down of little things that the EE does which are QoL improvements.

1. Quick lot.
   
   
2. Better damage/ Thac0 calculations on the character screen.
   
   
3. Possible to equip single hand weapon and shield while also equipping two hand / ranged weapon
   
   
4. Saves are instantaneous.
   
   
5. Zooming and screen resising. With original I could only play full screen or in a small window.
   
   
6. When rolling a character the roll is summed up automatically.

Minor points, but there are a lot of little improvements that they've made as well that tend to get glanced over.

Ah, I forgot that the original was removed from all the digital stores, what a strange coincidence.

The original game comes free with the EE. Scummy that they force you to buy the EE, but oh well. Shit on Beamdog, not the EE as a product

1) Beamtrash brought "a lot" of new people supposedly and that's a good thing because...........

It's a good thing because by bringing in new people into the RPG market, other indie games benefit from having an increased number of people to sell games to. And it was a lot of people. The steam and gog sales indicate this.

2) It's easier than downloading a bunch of scary RAR files for free.

It's objectively easier for a casual. Look at the people that praise it on both reddit and beamdog forums. They might be retards, but they're retards that give money.

3) Bugs, what bugs? Cocks, dicks, faggots etc. Pls stop complaining about this thing I wasted my money on.

I didn't have any problems with bugs and it seems like the majority of people outside the Codex don't. This is a subjective point, but if you played a game two or three times, enjoying it every play through, and didn't experience a bug; wouldn't you have a problem or some pushback against the idea that the game is buggy as hell and broken.

My main gripe with EE is that it's a dirty thing to do, to take an old classic and replace the original with your version. I wouldn't care enough to post there if they were sold separately.

It is a dirty thing to do. I'll never defend Beamdog for it. That doesn't have any direct bearing on the actual EE game itself.

a) were trying to keep the BG series as true to the originals as possible.
b) made all their additions etc truly optional.
c) had a vision of truly building more BG-style games and/or a proper sequel instead of giving us the SOD that no one asked for.
d) didn't put gender politics or SJW politics in general into their games.
e) let us purchase the normal version separately for cheaper.

I agree with most all these things with the added caveat that I never really played through the original baldur's gate so I don't know what some of these things would have qualified. These are all problems with Beamdog though, and there is no reason not to be hard on them. The EE as a game is still acceptable, and good for what it does.

The original versions are bundled with the EEs, aren't they?

They are. Still kinda fucked that you have to pay extra for the EE though.

Also, is it not possible to mod the EE of these games as well?

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

It's a good thing because by bringing in new people into the RPG market, other indie games benefit from having an increased number of people to sell games to. And it was a lot of people. The steam and gog sales indicate this.

You have no evidence that these people were new to the market. You weren't. By your own admission you played the original.

It's objectively easier for a casual. Look at the people that praise it on both reddit and beamdog forums. They might be retards, but they're retards that give money.

We don't care about the casuals and we want them to go away. The more of them there are in the RPG market, the more game companies will dumb things down for them.

You're literally admitting that the people who praise the game are retards and you don't understand that we didn't want them to be part of the market anyway.

I didn't have any problems with bugs and it seems like the majority of people outside the Codex don't.

Thousands of results for "bg:ee bug" on google. If there were no bugs, then what have all the patches been fixing these past few years?

This is a subjective point, but if you played a game two or three times, enjoying it every play through, and didn't experience a bug; wouldn't you have a problem or some pushback against the idea that the game is buggy as hell and broken.

No, because I'm not a retard and I know that not everyone has my exact system/luck. Plus I can read changelogs.

It is a dirty thing to do. I'll never defend Beamdog for it. That doesn't have any direct bearing on the actual EE game itself.

Sure it does. You buy it, you support the company. And you have to buy it because the originals are off the market - unless you want to pirate it.

Also, is it not possible to mod the EE of these games as well?

It is, though the EE seems to have damaged the modding community quite a bit at first. It's never fully recovered, but on a technical level, things do seem to be fully moddable again. Hopefully it will pick up.

 

[Tigranes]

I'm willing to admit that the original might have been a better version than the Enhanced Edition once you've modded it to your liking; my issue is that people are blowing up the flaws in the EE to make it out as if it's absolutely shit and hasn't done anything well.

How would you really know, if you haven't played the originals, though? EE isn't "shit" in the same way that Superman 64 is shit or Dragon Age 2 is shit. As I said, it is mostly mediocre and insignificant. As someone who's played BG literally every single year since its release more or less, I look at EE's changes and I mostly think, "whatever".

Imagine the EE was a WeiDU mod where I could select each component to install. I would probably install their equipped weapons QoL feature, and maybe one or two more things? That means it has less significance to my game than the Ease of Use mod, even. Now, in reality, I have to pay double price and then the one or two little niceties come with a bunch of mediocre, pointless, and sometimes annoying changes - and also deal with quite a few bugs (BG1:EE was quite buggy at release, and this is quite simply? No thanks. That's more annoying than the work of installing some mods, which has become extremely painless these days anyway.

The additional rancor comes from the fact that their they engage in shitty practices like taking the originals off the web, and that this is part of their business which has spent years churning out these products and not actually contribute a fully original RPG.

Then there are additional annoyances, like how the new product split and really slowed down the modding community as lambchop says - a community which has produced more quality improvements to the game than EE ever did. Hell, it's even harder to google for stuff now because you don't know which version people are talking about. I wouldn't blame beamdog for these things, that's what happens when you do an EE - but that's why you want people to do a substantial and authoritative EE, not this weak soup.

That's why, all in all, IMO they are a shitty company that makes insignificant patches and years on, I truly do not see any point to their existence.

 

[Chippy]

All the points have been made, but a personal one is that roleplaying a stalker was a big deal for me to get the quick weapon slots in the EE - but then I weighed that improvement over the sheer damage it did to the tone of the game and decided I was better off without the weapon slots.

The other point is that (pre V2.5) I spent more time fixing bugs with NI and other tools than it would have taken me to just install the original with mods. I made this point previously; we're talking about a company that cannot get rows and colums in order in their game after 6 years. The version previous to 2.5 had missing stalker backstab codes in the CLAB files. The assassin skill point gain was off per level, and so on.

I'm not a computer programmer - but I think I can safely assume that that's worse than my mechanic sending my vehicle back from a full service and MOT with with an utterly dead car battery. In fact it's worse - because apparently these people are modders who know the game - and they can't even be bothered to glance over colums and rows to ensure classes are in order.

As I and others have said - it's done either by incompetence or by design.

 

[Fairfax]

The original versions are bundled with the EEs, aren't they?

Only on GOG, I believe.

 

[ItsChon]

You have no evidence that these people were new to the market. You weren't. By your own admission you played the original.

Except I was new, because I bounced off BG the first time. It is 100% reasonable to assume that of the up to 1 million sales BG:EE has on Steam alone that at the very least 10% of those sales are new players; which is about a hundred thousand new people introcued to the market.

We don't care about the casuals and we want them to go away. The more of them there are in the RPG market, the more game companies will dumb things down for them.

Casuals don't like BG. If they like it, than logic goes to show that they'd want a game that is similar to that; not dumbed down like other games.

You're literally admitting that the people who praise the game are retards and you don't understand that we didn't want them to be part of the market anyway.

There are plenty of retards who like good games. All of those retards will still enjoy something like Underrail for example, and their exposure to BG has a good chance of leading them to it (it lead me to it), and those retards money helps developers like Styg make more new content and games.

Thousands of results for "bg:ee bug" on google. If there were no bugs, then what have all the patches been fixing these past few years?

Thousands of results for "bg original bug" on google. Both versions have their fair share of bugs that have required patches to be fixed.

Sure it does. You buy it, you support the company. And you have to buy it because the originals are off the market - unless you want to pirate it.

So if you have a company that treats all its employees like a piece of shit and personifies everything wrong in the gaming industry, but they release an amazing quality game; you're not going to buy it? This is a retarded point. Even if you were to protest a product due to the company, that doens't count as a valid criticism towards the product itself.

It is, though the EE seems to have damaged the modding community quite a bit at first. It's never fully recovered, but on a technical level, things do seem to be fully moddable again. Hopefully it will pick up.

So if in a few years, BG:EE develops a modding scene that is equal to the original BG, and the product ends up being superior to the original with mods; you'll change your tune regarding the BG:EE?

How would you really know, if you haven't played the originals, though? EE isn't "shit" in the same way that Superman 64 is shit or Dragon Age 2 is shit. As I said, it is mostly mediocre and insignificant. As someone who's played BG literally every single year since its release more or less, I look at EE's changes and I mostly think, "whatever".

I don't know. I said I'm willing to admit it because it has nothing to do with the quality of the EE.

Imagine the EE was a WeiDU mod where I could select each component to install. I would probably install their equipped weapons QoL feature, and maybe one or two more things? That means it has less significance to my game than the Ease of Use mod, even. Now, in reality, I have to pay double price and then the one or two little niceties come with a bunch of mediocre, pointless, and sometimes annoying changes - and also deal with quite a few bugs (BG1:EE was quite buggy at release, and this is quite simply? No thanks. That's more annoying than the work of installing some mods, which has become extremely painless these days anyway.

The additional rancor comes from the fact that their they engage in shitty practices like taking the originals off the web, and that this is part of their business which has spent years churning out these products and not actually contribute a fully original RPG.

Then there are additional annoyances, like how the new product split and really slowed down the modding community as lambchop says - a community which has produced more quality improvements to the game than EE ever did. Hell, it's even harder to google for stuff now because you don't know which version people are talking about. I wouldn't blame beamdog for these things, that's what happens when you do an EE - but that's why you want people to do a substantial and authoritative EE, not this weak soup.

That's why, all in all, IMO they are a shitty company that makes insignificant patches and years on, I truly do not see any point to their existence.

I'm not defending Beamdog. Alright, they're a shitty company. What I'm directly focusing on is the actual EE as a game itself; not even on the concept of an EE being released.

 

[ArchAngel]

And I as a person that played original BG1 when it released and then BG2 and kept playing them for years consider bg1ee worthy of existing.

Yea changes are not nearly as good as I first hoped for but there are enough now that I would rather have bg1ee than not.

But I agree that at release bg1ee was pretty buggy and it is fucked up to remove original games from stores.

Bg2ee and pstee I don't know what is their point. Iwdee I enjoyed playing as a new and different experience compared to original iwd (that I finished twice before) but I can understand how people that play iwdee as their only iwd experience will get something unbalanced.

 

[ItsChon]

And I as a person that played original BG1 when it released and then BG2 and kept playing them for years consider bg1ee worthy of existing.

Yea changes are not nearly as good as I first hoped for but there are enough now that I would rather have bg1ee than not.

But I agree that at release bg1ee was pretty buggy and it is fucked up to remove original games from stores.

Bg2ee and pstee I don't know what is their point. Iwdee I enjoyed playing as a new and different experience compared to original iwd (that I finished twice before) but I can understand how people that play iwdee as their only iwd experience will get something unbalanced.

The thing is, the vast majority of people on the Codex don't approach the EEs with this level of reasonableness.

 

[Tigranes]

ItsChon I'm just telling you why so many people don't think much of beamdog. We sit here enjoying a great looking and mostly great functioning game, and then it's taken off the selves in favour of some patch that hardly improves our experience in a meaningful way.

You keep repeating that people aren't "reasonable" about beamdog, but I'm not sure what kind of rationale you're looking for. I had a look at their list of features, and found them small and irrelevant. I find their products largely pointless, and wish that they would release a full-scale, original RPG if they wanted my time and money. I don't see why you feel that is so criminal.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Except I was new

Good for you.

It is 100% reasonable to assume that of the up to 1 million sales BG:EE has on Steam alone that at the very least 10% of those sales are new players; which is about a hundred thousand new people introcued to the market.

Based on what stats? New players of BG aren't necessarily new to the RPG market.

There are plenty of retards who like good games.

I can see that.

Both versions have their fair share of bugs that have required patches to be fixed.

So now there are bugs in BGEE. What a discovery.

So if you have a company that treats all its employees like a piece of shit and personifies everything wrong in the gaming industry, but they release an amazing quality game; you're not going to buy it?

Beamdog has never made a quality game. They've modded and patched a game that was already quality, mostly using existing mods and patches as a base.

Even if you were to protest a product due to the company, that doens't count as a valid criticism towards the product itself.

Apples to oranges.

So if in a few years, BG:EE develops a modding scene that is equal to the original BG

It's been 6 years already.

and the product ends up being superior to the original with mods; you'll change your tune regarding the BG:EE?

If they fix everything and change their business practices, sure. They haven't though.

I don't know. I said I'm willing to admit it because it has nothing to do with the quality of the EE.

No one says it has anything to do with the quality of the product. It's just another reason we don't like its existence.

I'm not defending Beamdog. Alright, they're a shitty company. What I'm directly focusing on is the actual EE as a game itself; not even on the concept of an EE being released.

Then why were you arguing for 2 pages that one of the great things about the game was that it supposedly brought new people to the market? That has nothing to do with the quality of the product and everything to do with Beamdog releasing it.

snip

The thing is, the vast majority of people on the Codex don't approach the EEs with this level of reasonableness.

He just has a different opinion on the game. He's not using some special amount of reason that we aren't. You just like that he's not criticizing it in its current state.

 

[Strange Fellow]

So if you have a company that treats all its employees like a piece of shit and personifies everything wrong in the gaming industry, but they release an amazing quality game; you're not going to buy it?

But Beamdog haven't developed an amazing quality game. They have developed 0 games.

 

[Citizen]

Casuals don't like BG. If they like it, than logic goes to show that they'd want a game that is similar to that; not dumbed down like other games.

BG is as casual as RPG can get without going full decline.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Yes, though to people who think Kotor with it's auto-resurrecting party members etc is old school, it must seem like the most hardcore game ever.

 

[ItsChon]

You keep repeating that people aren't "reasonable" about beamdog

Beamdog =/= Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition the game

People call the enhanced edition of the game shit, and not worth playing. That's what's unreasonable. I never said people aren't being reasonable in regards to Beamdog, my comment is strictly in regards to the product we received.

Good for you.

Go fuck yourself. You made a false claim and I responded to it. Good for you is just a deflection from the fact that you were wrong.

Based on what stats? New players of BG aren't necessarily new to the RPG market.

It's very reasonable to assume that people who are new to Baldur's Gate were likely never introduced to any of the other IE games, or the other classics of the genre.

So now there are bugs in BGEE. What a discovery.

Except my original point wasn't necessarily that BG:EE doesn't have any bugs but that it is about on par with what the original Baldur's Gate dealt with; therefore, citing its bugs as evidence of it being completely and utterly shit isn't fair. They're certainly a valid complaint, but that one complaint doesn't make the game shit. Nor does the additional content in conjunction with the bugs make the game shit.

Beamdog has never made a quality game. They've modded and patched a game that was already quality, mostly using existing mods and patches as a base.

But Beamdog haven't developed an amazing quality game. They have developed 0 games.

Both of you missed the fucking point. It's an analogy. One of the reasons Lambchop listed for BG:EE being shit is that buying it supports Beamdog, the analogy was there to illustrate the flaw in that logic.

Apples to oranges.

It's an important distinction, because this is one of the reasons you cite to back up your claim of BG:EE being shit.

It's been 6 years already. If they fix everything and change their business practices, sure. They haven't though.

Hold on a second. The original BG wasn't fixed by Black Isle, but by the modding community; and the game that you compare with the EE is the modded up version. Therefore, if we follow your logic, if enough mods come out to fix the issues in the game, you shouldn't have a single fucking problem with it.

Then why were you arguing for 2 pages that one of the great things about the game was that it supposedly brought new people to the market? That has nothing to do with the quality of the product and everything to do with Beamdog releasing it.

Fair enough, scratch the second part. The amended statement is "I'm not defending Beamdog. Alright, they're a shitty company. What I'm directly focusing on is the actual EE as a game itself."

He just has a different opinion on the game. He's not using some special amount of reason that we aren't.

That's the thing, you don't have a substantial enough reason to call the game shit. You hate it on principle. If the original BG was released with the shitty UI and even the added content, you would still enjoy the game.

BG is as casual as RPG can get without going full decline.

BG is about as casual as Underrail, IWD, PST, or even Arcanum and TOEE if you can get past the graphics and the bugs. And even than, as casual as these games are, there are many times more games that are more "casual" than all of these titles.

 

[Tigranes]

People call the enhanced edition of the game shit, and not worth playing. That's what's unreasonable. I never said people aren't being reasonable in regards to Beamdog, my comment is strictly in regards to the product we received.

And I specifically explained, numerous times, what many Codexers find pointless about the product itself. I'm not sure what else we, or the universe, can do to make it clearer.

To be fair, I'd also be a bit off the radar if I was in a multi-page bitchslap fight with lambchop. Let it go, dude.

 

[Strange Fellow]

It seems like you've been trying really hard to misunderstand the criticism of the EEs. Who cares if they're worth playing in some kind of vacuum. In real life you have access to a superior version of the same game.

 

[ItsChon]

The only fucking point I'm trying to make is that the Enhanced Edition isn't that bad, and is perfectly viable for a first play through. If no one disagrees with that, than there is no argument. Lambchop19 Do you disagree with this statement?

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Beamdog =/= Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition the game

People call the enhanced edition of the game shit, and not worth playing. That's what's unreasonable.

It is not worth playing compared to the original. Which makes it a pretty shit "enhanced edition".

It's also objectively shit if it won't run right, and there is a chance of that. You say you've never seen a bug, but we have. I wasn't able to play it for over a year until they patched it.

Go fuck yourself.

I'm too busy fucking another of your lame arguments into the dirt atm, but maybe later.

You made a false claim and I responded to it. Good for you is just a deflection from the fact that you were wrong.

Friendo, I told you before that your own story was anecdotal at best.

You weren't even really new, but I didn't care to argue it with you because you personally being new proved nothing. Just like you personally swearing you've never seen any of the bugs we have proves nothing.

So: good for you. Who cares?

Clear enough?

It's very reasonable to assume that people who are new to Baldur's Gate were likely never introduced to any of the other IE games, or the other classics of the genre.

Based on your own wishful thinking. Not everyone on earth is you or has your experiences, little guy.

Except my original point wasn't necessarily that BG:EE doesn't have any bugs but that it is about on par with what the original Baldur's Gate dealt with

Except it introdued new bugs that weren't present in the original BG. It's not a new game. It was a functional, already patched game that they fucked with and broke and then spent 6+ years patching.

Therefore, if we follow your logic, if enough mods come out to fix the issues in the game, you shouldn't have a single fucking problem with it.

So after 6 years of waiting, how much longer should we wait exactly before there isn't a problem? How many more bug-introducing patches will it have to go through?

The modded version is what's available now and what's been available since before the EE's release. It's perfectly fair to compare it to the modded version even without mods, especially since the EE based a lot of its improvements off of mods. No mods, no EE.

Both of you missed the fucking point. It's an analogy.

A bad analogy, smart guy. We didn't miss your point, we were laughing at it.

It's an important distinction, because this is one of the reasons you cite to back up your claim of BG:EE being shit.

I wasn't really claiming that. I didn't realize you meant the quality of the game, since you've bounced back and forth defending its existence etc so often and then turning around and demanding we only talk about the game's quality.

I'm saying it has a bearing on whether or not you'd want to buy the game. Which, as I said, you'd have to if you wanted to play it legally.

Hold on a second. The original BG wasn't fixed by Black Isle

It was in very playable condition almost immediately upon release. None of this 6 years of patches bullshit. There were mods that fixed some other bugs though, yes, mods that Beamdog did more than sneak a peak at for the EE, for all the good it did them.

Fair enough, scratch the second part. The amended statement is "I'm not defending Beamdog. Alright, they're a shitty company. What I'm directly focusing on is the actual EE as a game itself."

The game itself and its effect on the market, you mean. One effect of which was getting the originals removed except in bundle form with the more expensive EE.

That's the thing, you don't have a substantial enough reason to call the game shit.

I have multiple reasons. I've listed them multiple times. The introduction of bugs that break the game, lesser bugs, crappy characters and writing inserted into the game, bad ui - especially the dialog window, but in other areas as well, like the journal.

You hate it on principle. If the original BG was released with the shitty UI and even the added content, you would still enjoy the game.

The original wasn't billing itself as enhanced and didn't have an original game I could buy cheaper that was better in almost every way.

 

[Fairfax]

The EEs are fine for a first playthrough, but only for frauds who want to pretend they've played the games. If you've only played the EEs, you've never played BG1 and BG2.