TBS Age of Wonders: Planetfall - AoW gone to space

[Zboj Lamignat]

So we can agree on the fact that AoWlanetfall is huge wasted opportunity to deliver a good 4X?

Expecting Triumph to deliver a genuinely good 4X is a tad too optimistic regardless of the current year, no? They should probably stick to wargaming/tactical combat for the sake of us all.

they added a strategic layer where you attack planets/defend them, hows that?

There's no such thing in the game. They added sort of an endless mode where you get one planet after the other, as long as you wish. These planets have some random bonus objectives and fulfilling them grants you currency that lets you buy mods and units from outside your tech for the following planet. You also get to carry over your heroes and some of your tech. I guess that last part has some potential to combat one of the game's biggest issues, which is the asymmetry between overall game pace and tempo at which new stuff comes into play, but I was far too bored when it came out to test it properly.

 

[chuft]

Made another attempt to complete the Oathbound campaign. Stuck again due to bad quest logging/information. Will look for cheat codes. I am only bothering because the Oathbound campaign (uniquely) gives you some bonus stuff for Empire mode you cannot get any other way.

In general I would advise skipping the campaigns. I did a random map and it was much more fun than any of the campaigns have been, like AOW3. I played them mostly to try to get the lore, but it was fragmentary and didn't really make sense, and in retrospect, I would have been better off just playing random maps or Empire mpde from the start.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Again: campaigns in Planetfall ARE rmg. Just with pre-set factions, "quests" and some (really bad) writing. There's no such thing as handcrafted campaign missions/scenarios in the game. And yes, that means absolutely - no adding them through community work, either.

 

[chuft]

Used cheat codes to win the Oathbound campaign scenarios. The stuff it unlocks only applies if you create a new Empire Mode game right then and there. If you abort, or start a new Empire Mode game later, the unlocked stuff is gone and you have to go through the Oathbound campaign again to unlock it. Obviously cheat codes are the best way to do this if you are not a masochist.

Oathbound campaign had typical design problems. One quest is to get your reputation as high as possible (to 600). Problem is, unlike in previous games, reputation in this game is fleeting - events that raise or lower it only last for ten turns. So it sinks over time despite your efforts. Another main quest is to purge the planet of a nasty faction. Problem is, migrating their cities to your good-guy race results in a reputation hit. I guess you could get around this by absorbing their cities instead, but this would be kind of like Aragorn inviting orcish settlements in and around Morder to join Gondor. It's completely unbelievable, given that you are playing literally a paladin race devoted to purity. Yeah, should have just skipped the campaigns. Fortunately they did put a lot of cheat codes in.

 

[Crichton]

I picked this up during Fanatical's "Black Friday" sale because I love AoW3. I'm much more of a fantasy than a science fiction gamer, but I decided to give it a shot for the opportunity to play space dwarves. I just assumed the campaigns were garbage based on my experiences with AoW3 and I've tried three random planets as Dvar bolstered with various "Secret Technology"

Planet 1: Dvar/Promethian: I had no idea was I was doing and basically fucked around until the time limit as the junior member of a large alliance. Dvar Trenchers and Bulwarks seemed to make a pretty good hammer/anvil combo, but certain damage types (psychic) were a major problem. I also struggled to see how to integrate the class units into the roster. The Promethian Purifiers seemed to be a very minor upgrade over trenchers while the Tier III Phoenix Walkers were great at short distances when the rest of my units wanted to hang back. Eventually the clock ran out and I lost on points (no idea how those are calculated).

Planet 2: Dvar/Celestian: Now, armed with some idea how things worked, I used a combination of Trenchers, Light Bringers (monks) and Bulwarks to expand aggressively until I bulked up on Rocket Artillery and tanks. The rocket artillery was a real game changer since you could always force the enemy onto the offensive. The light bringer monk fellows were particularly handy against my psychic grasshopper opponent because they could resist mental status effects and were effective without needing a bunch of cosmite upgrades. Managed to win this one by wiping out the opposition as part of an axis of three. Brutal, long conflict with those grasshoppers, many were the slain.

Planet 3: Dvar/Voidtech: Getting the hang of things now, formed a four-member alliance and gang-banged the two dumb fucks who stood in opposition. Similar tactical setup as the previous planet with some giant-hammer "Void-Walker" units instead of monks. As I've learned more about how the various units work, I can see the value of melee units even for a predominantly ranged faction. This game ended before I had a chance to do much with the later Voidtech units and equipment, but so far, I prefer the Celestians; psychic resistance is a big plus.

Space Dwarf Takeaways:
-In the long-run, personal weapons are probably better, but I love putting heroes into those Bulwarks and ventilating people on overwatch.

-The cosmite system works well at limiting what you can do and encouraging you to fight with the other players over cosmite mines. Unlike AoW3, where gold and mana are plentiful everywhere, the paucity of options for getting cosmite can turn you into a real bastard quickly.

-Related to the above, early-on, it's tough judging just how much cosmite it's worth putting into any given unit through mods. If cost were no object, I'd love to give Trenchers fortification tools (better entrenchment), rail accelerators (improved range/accuracy) and a mod to improve damage, but if I do that, it's going to eat into the budget for higher tier units. In the last game, I gave the bulwarks rail accelerators but generally made the trenchers do without.

-Can't speak for the other races yet, but I like that the Dvar roster is incomplete and you find ways to work around the gaps in the various unit capabilities. Bulwarks, in spite of their name, are fragile. Trenchers are a great backbone, but lack the range of other races' riflemen. The Baron is tougher than the Bulwark and offers support but costs a mint and doesn't have overwatch. There are almost no direct upgrades, every unit maintains some usefulness because it has something that its fellows lack.

-As for the downsides, while all the player races are reasonably thought out, the minor factions have some real derp; the spacers and the furries are both lore cancer. There are also specific units that look stupid throughout (the sex-bots and the Oathbound mechsuits with bow-arms spring to mind).

-The game is so complicated now with the tech tree and mod options that the AI seems to really struggle to keep up strategically.

-I understand why they wanted to make alliances easier after AoW3, where they were essentially impossible to obtain, even with race/class/alignment overlap and allied victory enabled. But it's too easy to build an alliance across racial lines in Planetfall, leading to situations like the one I found in game 3 above. Alliances should be extremely difficult to obtain unless the players share a race or one of unifying secret techs (Ex. Celestian or Xenoplague, not Voidtech)

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Got to remember to see if I can mod this to have a barbarian tech tree, oxymoron notwithstanding.

 

[Lacrymas]

To give credit where credit's due, the unit designs are pretty cool. I've been replaying this a bit because I've been itching to play some AoW but no other one is available in Spanish unfortunately. The writing is atrocious, though, lol. I would like to see some more creative unit designs in AoW4 too.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

To give credit where credit's due, the unit designs are pretty cool. I've been replaying this a bit because I've been itching to play some AoW but no other one is available in Spanish unfortunately. The writing is atrocious, though, lol. I would like to see some more creative unit designs in AoW4 too.

Today I learn that your itch to play games is not as intense as your itch to practise languages.

 

[Lacrymas]

Today I learn that your itch to play games is not as intense as your itch to practise languages.

That's actually true, lol. The game in question must be available in the language I'm currently learning, otherwise I don't play it or play it for very short amounts of time.

 

[orcinator]

Did they add ways to help ground units move around the map? I remember my strategy when it launched was to have a couple ground armies with a balanced array of units for taking enemy capitals while the rest was all air units since they could actually move around the map at a decent pace and reinforce towns being menaced by the npc factions.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

The issue with that strategy was that a lot of the air units aren't that good, I guess.

As for mobility, other than (auto-created) roads, they added orbital relays that allow instant movement between them, but that requires devoting a sector upgrade to it.

 

[chuft]

Note there is a tech that lets you create orbital relays at forward bases. So if you found a forward base on the enemy continent (no settler required, just any unit present and spend some influence) you can turn it into a relay destination, and send guys there e.g. from an orbital relay near your production centers.

Thus one flyer can go over there, found a base, then you convert to a relay and start teleporting your army in.

 

[orcinator]

The issue with that strategy was that a lot of the air units aren't that good, I guess.

A unit in a fight is always better than a unit that's several turns away from a fight, especially in the final level where it's just endless shit all the time.
This might not work that well with the dorfs since their air unit is a fucking ram plane.
Maybe I'll play the game again with the expansions and see if the relays can give footsloggers enough mobility.

 

[chuft]

The problem is air units have no crunch power in a game where stacking limits are really important. They are great for certain things and a flyer stack with a flying hero or two can be very flexible especially if you are outside your own transportation network and in bad terrain or there is a lot of water. Ground units on barges really suck. But flyers are not worth their space in a mixed stack.

 

[Crichton]

I've tried using ramjet stacks as mobile 1st responders and naval base-clearers. It's somewhat useful if you don't want to bother with naval units, but they can't go toe-to-toe with enemy battleships.

The teleportation/space shuttle system is a huge improvement over AoW3 units trundling across the map for a dozen turns (or distant cities being non-productive paypigs)

 

[chuft]

Note flyers are a hard counter to the (albeit rare) pure melee stack. And a reason never to try making one yourself.

 

[Lacrymas]

I've completed the Vanguard and Kir'ko campaigns now and am on the second map of the Dvar campaign. The Vanguard and Kir'ko campaigns are extremely uneventful unless you go full warmonger because they can be completed without being at war with another faction. The writing is still so bizarre that I don't understand what is happening in the meta narrative. People are mentioning CORE but never explain what that is ;d The Assembly seems to have two factions within them (the redeemers and the other ones), but there was only a single line of dialogue explaining what that's about. What made the most impression is how they chose to combine the Dvar with the Xenoplague on the second map. Up until this point, it's the worst combination I've come across, to the point I can't figure out what the strategy would be. Sure, the healing mods are ok, but is that it? Not to mention that the first tactical operations for both the Xenoplague and Dvar are extremely similar - damage in an AoE circle. It seems strange to me that the devs would showcase the worst combination in a campaign setting where one would think that the primary iconography of a setting should be a priority.

 

[chuft]

I played almost all of the campaign to try to learn the lore (didn't finish the last scenario, too hard, and used a cheat code to win the second to last one, too tedious) and I ended up with little idea of what the story was supposed to be. It's pretty incoherent. To this day, with over 1,100 hours of play, I could not tell you what caused the apocalypse that trashed the old Empire whose remains you are exploring.

I don't care for this modern style of game lore design where you know nothing at the start and are supposed to learn it by playing, but they are too stingy with the information. I see it in more and more games these days. Sunless Sea for example was very annoying because of this but fortunately there are lore spoiler sites online. Its lore comes primarily from Fallen London, whose whole design was based on revealing tiny snippets of vague lore to try to get you to spend real money to get through the story a tiny bit faster (people play for years and still haven't finished it - in fact the main story arcs weren't even finished last time I checked, the game is not designed to really ever be finished, it's kind of a shaggy dog story).

Ultimately Planetfall like AOW3 shines in random maps and the new Empire Mode, I concluded the campaigns were pretty much a waste of time. In retrospet I wish I had skipped them, but I was curious what the setting was supposed to be. I still don't know.

I think Xenoplague always revolves heavily around the Xenoplague units, which I think are hugely fun to get and evolve. Their mods and units have some subtle advantages not apparent on first play, such as being immune to negative morale and mind control. This can be a very big deal, particularly when you are conquering cities of other races and absorbing them. Normally units get a bad morale penalty if they are of a race you are fighting, but you can avoid this with the Xenoplague Parasite mod, and thus build units of the enemy race (or use recruited heroes of that race) without problems. The fact you can infect enemy units means you can essentially recruit units on the front line, which is always huge in strategic games like this - your army gets stronger and stronger as you advance without having to wait for reinforcements to be sent from home. The fact they evolve into stronger forms means they get qualitatively better, not just quantitatively better, which is important in a game where stacking limits rule. A low level Xenoplague army turns into a more numerous higher tier one as they fight, giving a large momentum advantage. You also get a lot of disposable but tough pustules to use as cannon fodder and to soak overwatch (and they are hard to hit).

As for Dvar, their game revolves a lot around Trenchers, who can move their max movement, Entrench, and still fire their 1 AP weapon, which is a good one. This gives them a much greater strike range with full attack and tough defense compared to other factions' units, who often have either repeating attacks (weaker if you spend APs on moving) or 3 AP attacks (can't move much at all) or melee attacks (have to get adjacent). Since they can run right up and get close and personal, give them some Plague Pods and you can infect the enemy much more easily than, say, a Vanguard Trooper who wants to stay still and shoot from a distance. And their Entrenchment means they can have cover even when moving in the open between natural cover hexes.

I really like the Xenoplague mechanic, it's similar to Undead in AOW3 because you want to infect (rather than Ghoul Curse) enemies before killing them, which makes the tactical combat much more interesting than other secret techs are.

 

[Lacrymas]

I finished the Dvar campaign yesterday and I'd say their second mission (where you get to play with the xenoplague) was the most engaging so far. The amazons attacked me on sight, then another dvar faction declared war on me the moment I saw them, so I actually had to interact with the other players. I got how the xenoplague works halfway through the mission and the pustules were handy, but the synergy with the dvar was nonexistent and I felt underpowered throughout the map until I found a rifle which fires grenades and could take on 2 full armies with 4 characters if I played my cards right. All in all, not a combination I'd use again probably.

 

[chuft]

Xenoplague fills in gaps in the Dvar profile. Upper level Dvar are all mechanical and very vulnerable to, e.g. Synthesis taking over or stunning their machines. Xenoplague gives them powerful biological units in addition to the benefits I mentioned earlier.

 

[Crichton]

I'm slowly trying out all the secret tech with Dvar and I did two random maps with Xenoplague. The first one, I barely used it and used the usual Trencher/Bulwurk/Rocket Artillery army comp. The 2nd time, i made a concerted effort to spread the plague by equipping all my trenchers with plague pods. It was kind of a hassle making sure organic units were infected before blasting them, but it did pay off; eventually those Plague Lords were a pretty big help. The fact that the Dvar only have two organic units does limit the utility of some Xenoplague tech, but plague pods go great with trenchers since they don't carry grenades. If plague pods would proc on any explosive attack by a unit (i.e. they could be loaded into grenade and rocket launchers) the Dvar/Xenoplague synergy would dramatically increase. But a legion of grenade-throwing trenchers backed up by Plague lords who can resurrect rocket artillery (if it has a xenoplague mod) is still a pretty good deal.

 

[chuft]

Plague Lords look like the Dunwich Horror combined with a Martian tripod, they are the coolest looking unit since the Eldritch Horror in AOW3.

 

[Lacrymas]

I thought the xenoplague mods (except the grenades) are pretty pointless for the Dvar. They mostly offer healing and +health, but the Dvar are already super tanky, so it was doubling down on something they were already good at. The operation which makes a pustule fall from the sky was the most useful because I could use it to block off choke points, distract the AI's units or break psyfish CC.

 

[chuft]

Xenoplague mods here

https://minionsart.github.io/aowp/Pages/Mods/XenoplagueMods.html

Dvar units here

https://minionsart.github.io/aowp/Pages/Units/DvarUnits.html

Like I said the Xeno mods can make units immune to mind control and bad morale/desertion, which can be important if you are fighting enemies with units of the same race, or enemies with mind control abilities. So if you are fighting another Dvar, or capture cities of another race and want to build their units, these mods are very useful, not to mention if you are fighting units with mind control like Syndicate.

They can give status effect resistance and hit points. Dvar are actually weak on healing because the Foreman cannot heal the Bulwark, arguably the best Tier II unit in the game, and the mainstay of the mid game Dvar armies. Xeno mods can overcome that.

Xenografted Muscles let Foremen and Trenches get an extra level of Stagger at a relatively low level of research, and infect enemy units with their melee attacks, which also do more damage. Bio-Spore Hyper Aggression lets basically all units (even Mechanical if they have a Xeno mod) within a 2 hex radius do +40% damage for two turns, which is nothing to sneeze at in a game where the combats are often over in 3 or 4 turns and one turn of that is closing the distance.

But for me the whole point of the Xenoplague is not the mods, they are mostly a means to an end to get more/more evolved Xenoplague units. It's the ability to recruit and upgrade units in the field and get powerful biological units. In that respect Xeno is compatible with any race. Having an army on the march in enemy territory be able to add good units, even up to Tier III's, for free is a pretty amazing ability.

 

[Lacrymas]

Using melee in this game in general is a bad move. Not that it can't be ok, but why would you do that to yourself when ranged is superior in all circumstances that matter. I'm playing the amazon campaign and oh boy are the huntresses ridiculous for such a low tier unit. The first map is Amazon + Celestial and the damage bonuses you can stack even in the early game are bonkers.