TBS Age of Wonders: Planetfall - AoW gone to space

[Zboj Lamignat]

Yes.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'd have used the same races as in AoW (the entirety of the franchise) but in spaaaace. I don't think anyone can honestly claim the races/factions in PF are interesting, except the Assembly. Is there any hardcore fan of the Amazons? I doubt it. But Frostlings or Shadow Demons, or Dark Elves, or Goblins mmm, yes, fuck me up. Not because I want them to use the "standard fantasy races" as a crutch, but because it would've been better had they used them instead of what we got.

 

[cvv]

I'd have used the same races as in AoW (the entirety of the franchise) but in spaaaace. I don't think anyone can honestly claim the races/factions in PF are interesting, except the Assembly. Is there any hardcore fan of the Amazons? I doubt it. But Frostlings or Shadow Demons, or Dark Elves, mmm, yes, fuck me up.

The races are the only aspect of SF setting that's superior to fantasy. If you're over 20 yo then dwarves, elves and undead are beyond boring.

For everything else it's the other way around. It's way more interesting to hunt for magical rings, ancient tomes and heroic swords than dealing with "siliconate oxidification device" or "dicarbonate borolific quantumplasma". All those items and tech are stupor inducing. Technobabble is the bane of SF settings.

 

[chuft]

Personally the Amazon Tyrannodons are my favorite unit. Amazon Xenoplague is a very fun combo for me.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

The races are the only aspect of SF setting that's superior to fantasy. If you're over 20 yo then dwarves, elves and undead are beyond boring.

For everything else it's the other way around. It's way more interesting to hunt for magical rings, ancient tomes and heroic swords than dealing with "siliconate oxidification device" or "dicarbonate borolific quantumplasma". Technobabble is the bane of SF settings.

Eh, it depends if you are referring solely to soft science fiction (and 'space fantasy' in particular) or to SF in general. Because in the latter case, SF is superior in terms of its possible narrative scope.

 

[cvv]

The races are the only aspect of SF setting that's superior to fantasy. If you're over 20 yo then dwarves, elves and undead are beyond boring.

For everything else it's the other way around. It's way more interesting to hunt for magical rings, ancient tomes and heroic swords than dealing with "siliconate oxidification device" or "dicarbonate borolific quantumplasma". Technobabble is the bane of SF settings.

Eh, it depends if you are referring solely to soft science fiction (and 'space fantasy' in particular) or to SF in general. Because in the latter case, SF is superior in terms of its possible narrative scope.

I know what you're getting at but the technobabble problem has been plaguing p. much every single SF strategy I've played since the late 90s, including Alpha Centauri or MoO. I guess UFO handled it best but that's because the research scope was relatively limited and the setting was a very near future and not Start Trek-like space fantasy.

 

[thesecret1]

I dislike most SF settings since the majority of them is written by retards fantasising about things that simply make no sense (and are frequently pozzed as well) or alternatively making up some new technology, without thinking about its implications in, for example, warfare. It leads to settings that fall apart if you really start thinking about them for five minutes. Fantasy settings tend to be a lot harder to fuck up and thus tend to have a better output per average.

 

[Norfleet]

Nah, fantasy settings are just as easy to fuck up. Nobody apparently adequately pondered the ramfiications of things like this.

I mean, JESUS CHRIST, a random level 1 cleric can create infinite water at will? The very ruleset of the setting is already completely fucked. Let us contemplate the ramifications that infinite water has on society. With the ability for your tribe's shaman to create effectively infinite water, your civilization is no longer bound to living near water sources. With a few more of these people, siegecraft completely changes: Any fortification or city not situated on high ground can effectively be drowned under a deluge of unlimited water.

To say nothing of what this does to your adventure. And remember, this isn't a splatbook, this is their core ruleset.

 

[Lacrymas]

Nah, fantasy settings are just as easy to fuck up. Nobody apparently adequately pondered the ramfiications of things like this.

I mean, JESUS CHRIST, a random level 1 cleric can create infinite water at will? The very ruleset of the setting is already completely fucked. Let us contemplate the ramifications that infinite water has on society. With the ability for your tribe's shaman to create effectively infinite water, your civilization is no longer bound to living near water sources. With a few more of these people, siegecraft completely changes: Any fortification or city not situated on high ground can effectively be drowned under a deluge of unlimited water.

To say nothing of what this does to your adventure. And remember, this isn't a splatbook, this is their core ruleset.

Would you be interested in hearing about our Lord and Savior my setting?

 

[thesecret1]

Nah, fantasy settings are just as easy to fuck up. Nobody apparently adequately pondered the ramfiications of things like this.

That's why low magic settings reign superior

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Low & dark fantasy is where it's at.

Embrace the grimderp, bruvs.

 

[Raghar]

Zelezny Amber is still one of best fantasy series. Well thought and decent humor.

 

[Raghar]

Nah, fantasy settings are just as easy to fuck up. Nobody apparently adequately pondered the ramfiications of things like this.

I mean, JESUS CHRIST, a random level 1 cleric can create infinite water at will?

Wouldn't that end him being moved into middle of ocean?

Normally this was supposed to be used as an exception to save party from death by dehydration.

 

[Suicidal]

I enjoyed both AoW 3 and PF, but I ultimately think that PF took more steps backwards from AoW 3 than it did forward and also its post-launch support paled in comparison with AoW3's (not only are the AoW3 DLCs much better, but AoW3 also has a shit ton of mods, some of which are quite interesting).

The best thing about PF and the thing that I hope Triumph takes into future games is how much variety there was in different unit compositions. You have your base units and you can give them all of these different upgrades, some of which come from your faction's base tech, some come from your secret tech and some come from the native faction you chose to suck off. You can also use the native faction's units and give them your faction's upgrades. The upgrades can change the units ALOT.

I remember I played a match with a lightning damage focused build. I befriended the imperials and took their basic bitch melee unit (the spear and electro shield guys) and gave them an upgrade that stuns enemies trying to attack them and also one that lets them shoot out an AoE cone lightning that does damage and stuns and I also gave them something that increases their mobility so they can reach the enemy faster. As a result, the basic bitch melee unit whose function was to run up and physical attack turned into an AoE stun machine that dealt mostly lightning damage. In another game that I played with my friend, he was playing as the cyborgs and went full melee. He also allied with the imperials and gave all his melee upgrades to the spear guys, which turned them into very high damage, life-stealing, regenerating berserkers.

The upgrade system from PF reminded me of how you could put enchantments on your units in AoW 1 & 2 but I liked PF's system even more because in AoW 2 you were just limited by your known spells and mana income, so eventually you could just put every possible buff on every unit, while in PF there are limitations so you have to make decisions and specialize your units. The only thing I would change is instead of the static 3 slots per unit, I'd give every unit some sort of add-on capacity and every add-on would have a different cost.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Mods are the one new and potentially interesting thing the game does, for sure. Unfortunately, the more you play the more you realize that they are mostly there for theorycrafting, because you win every game with tier1-2 (supported by a bit t3) units pimped out with whatever +dmg mods you can get. Sure, you can come up with lots of interesting combos, but really, why would you. I've finished the game with every race at least once and I think I only ever saw one or two t4 units and only because I pretty much skipped dozens of turns just to see them, otherwise you'll mop up long before even if you aren't particularly aggressive.

I don't think anyone can honestly claim the races/factions in PF are interesting, except the Assembly.

Heh, if I had to single out one thing that disappointed me the most when PF came out, it would be the Assembly. I love playing undead/necromancers in strategy games and AoW3 necro was just perfect, unique and tons of fun to play. Then PF rolls in and, apparently, a race of undead strogg fused from flesh and scavenged technology use 101% the same mechanic for food/growth and pretty much everything as everyone else. 1/10 for effort.

 

[cvv]

because you win every game with tier1-2 (supported by a bit t3) units pimped out with whatever +dmg mods you can get.

And that's bad? As opposed to what, a giant ball of T4 death that was 90% of late game in AoW3?

 

[Dwarvophile]

Yes, alll this makes me want to play AoW3 except, I remember giving up my last custom map because of endless manticore spams.

 

[Lacrymas]

T4 unit spam has been a problem in this franchise since the beginning as far as I remember. It's certainly the case in AoW3. It's good that you use mostly T1-2s with vestigial support from T3, and T4s being rare. Have you played this game in multiplayer Zboj Lamignat ? T4s might play a greater role then.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

It's just "fixing" an issue by going too far the other way, whichever you prefer. Personally, I definitely prefer T4 to actually be in use, instead of rotting in limbo and the game having ai, pacing and research trees that will allow for it. In multi the meta is to get balls of your preferred unit with op or counter mod combo, you'll never see actual balanced army composition as a thing there. And I never had problems with my plebeian matches against AI on high difficulty in AoW3 and the T4 spam. Racial T1 is mostly trash, sure, but there were plenty ways to put T2 and 3 into good use, especially the class ones.

 

[chuft]

T4 is rare in PF because T4 units have cosmite upkeep, which makes them costly in a way other units are not. I still have some as the core of my late game armies but the cosmite cost keeps them from proliferating. Low tier units are useful throughout if modded.

Xenoplague is the PF equivalent of Necromancer and Parasitic Infection is the Ghoul Curse. You spend effort in battles trying to infect enemies before they get killed so you get more/evolved Xenoplague units (which are awesome melee units) after the battle. Growing a Xenoplague army can be quite a lot of fun. And the top Xeno unit looks like the Dunwich Horror.

Note if you control cities of other races you can research some of their tech/units via a drop down in the Combat research menu.

Heals which dispel negative effects are a big deal, especially AOE heals with range.

 

[chuft]

Incidentally I would like to recommend a mod, called the Influence Mod. It's on Steam.

The AIs get too much influence income and as a result, buy a lot of NPC faction units. This often results in a battle against an AI faction feeling more like a battle against an NPC because the AI army will have mostly units from their favorite NPC instead of their own race/tech. Kind of like fighting orcs in AOW3 and discovering their army is mostly faeries or mermen.

The Influence Mod simply lowers AI influence income so they can't buy all these NPC units and their armies are primarily of their own race and secret tech.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

T4 is rare in PF, because even if you play like a 100yo turtle, you'll mop up long before they come into play. And that's without mentioning the doomsday option, which pretty much always allows for a super quick victory with minimum actual warfare (ai will often declare on you and then do nothing outside of cold war, because it is just that retarded). Strategic resource upkeep is actually a good change and if it was implemented in a game with AoW3's pacing it would be pretty incline, but here T4 are quite literally unnecessary so why would you care about their upkeep. Like I said, if someone prefers this then fair fucks to them. But pretending this is some yuge incline over AoW3 is fabulously optimistic.

Xenoplague is the PF equivalent of Necromancer and Parasitic Infection is the Ghoul Curse.

They're literally nothing alike, what are you even talking about. Ghoul curse was just another form of mind control that came into play mid/late game and necro had a plethora of different mechanics and tools that made the class cool and genuinely unique.

 

[chuft]

I am not one of those people who feel the need to rush, rush, rush, look for flaws or weaknesses to exploit in a complex game and AI, use cheese tactics etc. I'm just not. I like long epic wars and the point of the game is the tactical battles. Doomsday weapons are just a way to avoid the tedium of conquering an entire huge map if you've obviously already won and don't feel like playing it out, or if you are outnumbered heavily by hostile AIs and want to try to win while holding them off. I don't use T4's because they're "necessary," I use them because they're fun and cool.

Both Parasitic Infection and Ghoul Curse feature an attempt to affect an enemy unit during a battle, if successful and you win the battle (and the unit is killed) you get a benefit after the battle. Ghoul Curse will give you an undead version of the unit to join your army. Parasitic Infection will give you points based on the tier of the unit, and after the battle, your point total will be checked and you may receive Xenoplague reinforcement (which subtracts from the total, otherwise it carries over). The reinforcement can be one or more Xenoplague new units like pustules, or it can promote existing Xenoplague units of yours that were in the battle to higher tier units like Destroyers or Plague Lords. Just like with Necromancer, you don't just want to kill enemy units, you want to infect them first, and then end up with a more/more powerful units after the battle, and you can grow armies in the field just from fighting.

Ghoul Curse, like Parasitic Infection, is the key to a momentum advantage these classes have where the enemy's strength is turned into yours if you can infect and then kill them.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Again, ghoul curse is just another form of mc, there are myriad forms of mc in the series and it's not really similar to xenoplague at all. Ghoul curse comes into play from mid game onward, isn't really particularly class defining and necro has various other unique mechanics that made it stand out from the other classes. I'm fairly sure pretty much no one would put a stress on xeno and necro being similar, especially when the devs themselves pretty clearly designed a race that was supposed to fill that role, they just forgot to give it flavor.

I am not one of those people who feel the need to rush, rush, rush, look for flaws or weaknesses to exploit in a complex game and AI, use cheese tactics etc. I'm just not. I like long epic wars and the point of the game is the tactical battles. Doomsday weapons are just a way to avoid the tedium of conquering an entire huge map if you've obviously already won and don't feel like playing it out, or if you are outnumbered heavily by hostile AIs and want to try to win while holding them off. I don't use T4's because they're "necessary," I use them because they're fun and cool.

What sort of "cheese" do you mean, exactly? Do you want me to quote the devs about stuff like AoW being a wargame that is about expanding early and aggressively, which are for example spelled out for you on the loading screens? You're obviously just a guy who would "argue" against the obvious for the sake of acting obtuse. You can check the consensus on T4 on steam/paradox forum, where people who actually like this game are.

 

[chuft]

I don't know what "mc" is, but Ghoul Curse is not a normal charm. It does not give you control of the unit during the battle, you have to win first, and unlike a normal charm it does not give you the same unit - it gives you an undead version of it. Xenoplague similarly gives you different units after the battle. Both allow you to grow armies from fighting that are different than the armies you fought.

Sorry you don't enjoy the game. I do. I don't feel the need to use the cheese I see discussed by the PvP players in the official discord, but PvP is really where you need to be if you want to feel challenged to play at the top level.

I play to relax and for the narrative and fun tactical battles, don't feel the need to be super efficient at exploiting combos or AI behavior.