A video game kickstarter that ran off with the money

[Stabwound]

It was still $10,000 to a single person.

What happens when it's $100,000 or $1,000,000? Banner Saga is closing in on half a million to a small group of 3 people based on little more than a flash animation and lots of promises.

 

[Kz3r0]

Guys, you should be more concerned about Takedown, that's a real ticking time bomb ready to explode.

 

[Burning Bridges]

zeitgeist: Yes, but, many people spend money for all kinds of garbage anyway. That doesn't mean people should stop going into shops any buying things completely.

I mean at the moment it's really hard to make up one's mind about this kickstarter business, but you really need no crystal ball to know that this had to happen.

 

[Burning Bridges]

It was still $10,000 to a single person.

What happens when it's $100,000 or $1,000,000? Banner Saga is closing in on half a million to a small group of 3 people based on little more than a flash animation and lots of promises.

It could happen, but c'mon these guys are professionals, not a university chick with a small baby.

Once I give them money, I'd be more concerned about such games coming out and sucking hard, not so much about them not coming out all.

 

[Kaol]

It was still $10,000 to a single person.

What happens when it's $100,000 or $1,000,000? Banner Saga is closing in on half a million to a small group of 3 people based on little more than a flash animation and lots of promises.

This, i think it will attract alot of negative publicity.

Then you have fanboys who donated alot of money to some game who will rage that it wasnt the game they wanted...

The whole thing could go either way really. Hopefully it will result in some decent indie studios emerging.

 

[Jaesun]

The sheer fact KS got Fargo And Tim Schaefer back into making the kind of games we know and love is worth anything that may happen down the line.

I agree Banner Saga was one of the projects that could be risky, but they showed me the money, and were above and beyond professional(and a pure LOVE of what they wanted to create). So I donated.

 

[MetalCraze]

Well I mean I assume they would be contractually obligated to return the funds if the project weren't finished by a certain date.

Dude - donations do not force you to do anything. Nobody forced sheeple to donate. It's legal.

And it won't be the last case. Thankfully there are still many sheeple. I mean - you can consider a game an uninteresting B grade project unlike superawesome Baldur's Gate 1, but the moment you try to kickstart - sheeple will donate for a mere promise and even will give you a credit for making that game you were considering some cheap trash when it was developed.

I agree Banner Saga was one of the projects that could be risky, but they showed me the money, and were above and beyond professional(and a pure LOVE of what they wanted to create). So I donated.

A Final Fantasy Tactics clone without stats because "they detract from strategic gameplay" is very risky. You need to have massive balls in this day and age to make a game that housewives and CoD-kids can play.

We were suffering from the overabundance of these stupid sophisticated tactical games for decades, but thankfully now we have Stoic that think stats are shit, just like we do, to save the day.

 

[Mangoose]

Well I mean I assume they would be contractually obligated to return the funds if the project weren't finished by a certain date.

Dude - donations do not force you to do anything. Nobody forced sheeple to donate. It's legal.

I absolute love claims without supporting evidence. Give link to legal document that you see on Kickstarter or butt out. No, I don't see one, and I'm too lazy to look. In the legal world, words such as "donation" are not defined by their colloquial meaning but by what their specific definition in said legal document.

 

[Metro]

I thought the funds were not finalized until delivery.

Huh? Until they actually develop it? What sense would that make? They're asking for the money to develop it.

Well I mean I assume they would be contractually obligated to return the funds if the project weren't finished by a certain date.

Dude - donations do not force you to do anything. Nobody forced sheeple to donate. It's legal.

I absolute love claims without supporting evidence. Give link to legal document that you see on Kickstarter or butt out. No, I don't see one, and I'm too lazy to look. In the legal world, words such as "donation" are not defined by their colloquial meaning but by what their specific definition in said legal document.

More like wishful thinking on your part. Kickstarter is 'buyer/donator beware.' The people soliciting funds aren't contractually obligated to do anything.

 

[MetalCraze]

Bro, I said that Kickstarter isn't any different from placing "Donate" PayPal button on your shitty blog.

 

[Jaesun]

The Cryway butthurt stench in here is overpowering. Anyone got a gasmask?

 

[Mangoose]

More like wishful thinking on your part. Kickstarter is 'buyer/donator beware.' The people soliciting funds aren't contractually obligated to do anything.

I'm asking for the sentence on Kickstarter.com that says this. Which is why I posed the question, because I don't know, and I"m too lazy to look. But I didn't ask for people to just claim shit without providing the link that supports their claim.

Bro, I said that Kickstarter isn't any different from placing "Donate" PayPal button on your shitty blog.

Yeah bro if I say the sky is pink the sky is pink. I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I'm saying everybody is again being shitty at rational discourse by just claiming shit and not backing it up with a simple link.

 

[Metro]

http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use?ref=footer

Happy reading. Key phrase in that morass is 'good faith' effort to finish. If someone literally defrauded people then there is legal recourse. However, the 'good faith' language is going to shield 99% of the people soliciting funds through Kickstarter.

 

[mondblut]

Wait a sec, I am off to set me a fundraising page. I am going to make, uh, the most awesomest RPG ever. Donate!

 

[Mangoose]

http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use?ref=footer

Happy reading. Key phrase in that morass is 'good faith' effort to finish. If someone literally defrauded people then there is legal recourse. However, the 'good faith' language is going to shield 99% of the people soliciting funds through Kickstarter.

• Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.

Question is how do they determine the deadline for that. Edit: Well, also the specific legal terms on the actual contract.

 

[Kaol]

I read the ToC, its abit ambiguous.

 

[Kaol]

http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use?ref=footer

Happy reading. Key phrase in that morass is 'good faith' effort to finish. If someone literally defrauded people then there is legal recourse. However, the 'good faith' language is going to shield 99% of the people soliciting funds through Kickstarter.

• Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.

Question is how do they determine the deadline for that. Edit: Well, also the specific legal terms on the actual contract.

Maybe someone who understands legal stuff could clear it up.

 

[Mangoose]

http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use?ref=footer

Happy reading. Key phrase in that morass is 'good faith' effort to finish. If someone literally defrauded people then there is legal recourse. However, the 'good faith' language is going to shield 99% of the people soliciting funds through Kickstarter.

• Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.

Question is how do they determine the deadline for that. Edit: Well, also the specific legal terms on the actual contract.

Maybe someone who understands legal stuff could clear it up.

Well, for one, it takes careful reading of every line, not just "LOL GOOD FAITH" and then stop reading.

Secondly, it'd probably be a lot more useful to get a copy of the actual contract that Project Creators need to sign.

 

[zeitgeist]

I'm asking for the sentence on Kickstarter.com that says this. Which is why I posed the question, because I don't know, and I"m too lazy to look. But I didn't ask for people to just claim shit without providing the link that supports their claim.

From the ToU it can be concluded that Kickstarter will not take any legal action against users (the worst that can happen is that they cancel your project). And they specifically warn you that the backers might take legal action against you (which again points to the fact that Kickstarter won't). So there doesn't appear to be anything in the contract with Kickstarter itself that says you have to do anything substantial, and it seems that they will not enforce anything in any way.

Kickstarter is not liable for any damages or loss incurred related to rewards or any other use of the Service. All dealings are solely between Users. Kickstarter is under no obligation to become involved in disputes between any Users, or between Users and any third party. This includes, but is not limited to, delivery of goods and services, and any other terms, conditions, warranties, or representations associated with campaigns on the Site. Kickstarter does not oversee the performance or punctuality of projects.

edit:

Secondly, it'd probably be a lot more useful to get a copy of the actual contract that Project Creators need to sign.

It definitely would. Perhaps questions about this could be directed to some of the currently active Kickstarter project leaders?

 

[Commissar Draco]

This is Masterpiece of Fully Covering my Ydishe ass System.TM Love how they take $ and renounce all liability for their action.... Governing law: Yew York State. :p

 

[Mangoose]

I'm asking for the sentence on Kickstarter.com that says this. Which is why I posed the question, because I don't know, and I"m too lazy to look. But I didn't ask for people to just claim shit without providing the link that supports their claim.

From the ToU it can be concluded that Kickstarter will not take any legal action against users (the worst that can happen is that they cancel your project). And they specifically warn you that the backers might take legal action against you (which again points to the fact that Kickstarter won't).

Kickstarter is not liable for any damages or loss incurred related to rewards or any other use of the Service. All dealings are solely between Users. Kickstarter is under no obligation to become involved in disputes between any Users, or between Users and any third party. This includes, but is not limited to, delivery of goods and services, and any other terms, conditions, warranties, or representations associated with campaigns on the Site. Kickstarter does not oversee the performance or punctuality of projects.

So I guess they enforce the "requires" rule I quoted by cancelling the project?

Secondly, even if Kickstarter does not enforce the rule, does that mean the "donator" can't sue for contract breach ("requires" rule, again) via other means?

So there doesn't appear to be anything in the contract with Kickstarter itself that says you have to do anything substantial, and it seems that they will not enforce anything in any way.

Again, I'm not so sure this is the actual contract.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Project Creators agree to make a good faith attempt to fulfill each reward by its Estimated Delivery Date.

Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward.

Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.

I am no lawyer but Mangoose may have a valid point. It could be that the backers must be refunded if the project creator is "unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward".

But probably it doesn't make much difference if the creator is broke or the amount in dispute is negligible.

Or would you go to court to get back 20$ from an unemployed university student?

 

[zeitgeist]

Of course they can go up for fraud charges.

But sued by backers, not Kickstarter itself. This will probably happen at some point, but I don't really see it going anywhere (due to all the factors that can go wrong in such projects etc).

 

[Kaol]

We need to see the ToC for projects to be able to draw any conclusions.

 

[Emily]

I will only donate ever, if
a) the dev is somewhat big name, has the game that i find atractive. HAS AN DESIGN CONCEPT!! has screenshots, has system in place. Elaborates system etc. AND asks for fairly low number
b) the dev is big name, has the game that i find atractive, history,idea that i like etc.
c) The dev is no name. but has eveything pretty much an complete game that needs polishing. I play the beta/demo and find it good, will donate
Anything else and i wouldnt even consider donating. As for the rest of the people that donate a lot of money to the risky risky shits like Baner saga ( no stats srsly for an tactical game?!) well it is their money.. Not my department