Game News A new Age of Wonders in the making?

[visions]

AoW1 doesn't look so bad if you remember to increase the resolution to 1024x768. Otherwise it looks horrid.

It goes higher as well, I have it set to 1280x800 on my laptop (my native res). It looks quite pretty by my standards. I tend to adjust my video settings around AoW though, to give it more colour.

 

[SCO]

Yes, it goes higher, but doesn't appear to remember the option on the next run.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

So is Shadow Magic the one to get if I've never played the series? Won't be anytime soon since I'm already bouncing back and forth between Warlock and Civ 5 and not really looking to get into another strategy game, atm. So I'll probably just give it a time cushion and see if they announce anything vis-a-vis AoW3.

AoW campaign has some different design decisions: heroes/items transfer between maps; and your 'faction leader' is a hero most like every other, only you lose if it dies.
in SM, only the wizard (new style leader) transfers. Thing is... the wizard is not a hero. He has no levels and won't grow in anything except spellcasting, and even there, they made the system so, that you need to be a absolute dumbfuck to move him around the map since he only is effective on the wizard tower.

So what SM/2 transfers is only researched and discovered spells.

This was probably done as a overreaction, for balance, heroes in AoW1 can get seriously broken (for various other reasons i feel, one of which the brazilian slaughter explained well. This in spite of you being hero limited on the campaign.

I'd have liked that both systems were available for modders on the map editor of SM, oh well.

Oh, AoW:SM is a beautiful game, but AoW1 doesn't look so bad if you remember to increase the resolution to 1024x768.
Otherwise it looks horrid.
One trick they learned on 2/SM on opposition to 1 is that in those games, the hex's are bigger that you might expect for the regular army size. This is to allow different sized units to look 'gigantic'. In AoW1 meeting a red dragon is a anticlimatic experience.

Heroes do transfer over in SM within their own chapters. It's just that there are 6 chapters and at the beginning of each one, you have do start over from scratch. SM's heroes also have a bunch of general nerfs applied to them. They level up slower. They have experience caps in a lot of the campaign missions. When they level up, they're offered a small selection of stats and abilities chosen at random, instead of being able to pick whatever they want.

 

[visions]

Yes, it goes higher, but doesn't appear to remember the option on the next run.

Strange, it always does for me. I have the last official version.

 

[SCO]

Aow heroes also have experience caps... only the cap is 3 per level*


*new ones can go up to the limit

 

[visions]

Yes, they carry over.

And the last chapter (Merlin) is started from tabula zero. So you start with crappy heroes, some troops and a bunch of doomed allies. And the bad guys are a never-ending horde of Shadow Demons attacking you and your allies, one by one. And the All-Devourer LOVES city-wrecking spells. And you gotta get some sword to lower the force-field. Makes Hall of Heroes seem like a walk in the park.

Now you made me want to give Shadow Magic a proper go before I intended to.

One thing I dislike in AoW though is that in scenarios with special victory conditions you still win when you kill the enemy leaders, without having to complete the objective.

Last time I did Hall of Heroes, I didn't have to reach the Hall since I stumbled upon the last surviving enemy leader's stack (Dark Elves) while exploring the depths with my leader and promptly killed him. He had three black dragons with him, my leader was solo, equal levels, but he had shit defense, while I obviously had it maxed out, plus a healing spell and Spell Casting IV. Felt a little cheap though, since I didn't reach the hall, just killed all the enemy leaders.

The first time I did Hall of Heroes, it was quite painful though.

 

[visions]

First time I did Hall of Heroes, I also found the Hall, and had like one or two towns remaining by that point.

 

[octavius]

I hope AOW3 will have as good tactical combat as SM. I loved all the special abilities different units have, and the use of height and obstacles, and the fact that heroes didn't get as overpowered as in AOW1.

A better AI is needed, though, both tactically (can't be that hard to program?) and strategically. In AOW2 the AI couldn't even use ships at all. In SM the AI used ships reluctantly.

And let there be a Steam free option. Please.

 

[catfood]

Ok so here I my top 5 things that I want to see in AOW3:

1) Better level 1 units. I know that some people think level 2 units need some love too but for me they were always usable (most of them anyway). Every faction gets a cavalry unit which is usually very useful. High movement rate (arguably the most important stat in the game) and decent stats make them a staple in my army stacks. The other lvl 2 units range from fucking awesome (swashbuckler anyone?) to somewhat dubious in utility (slither) but I felt that they had a good price/construction time/combat effectiveness ratio. It's the 1st level units that get the short end of the stick. Only archers are any good and that is only if they get the gold medal. Some are so useless it's embarrassing (hatchling lol).

2) An AI that can use the full capability of each of the game's features. So the AOW1 AI can use boats but the AOW2 one can't? Lolwut? Nor could it use settlers. Get some better programmers, guys.

3) Speaking of settlers, I wouldn't mind a greater shift towards the MOM/CIV gameplay. Currently there is little incentive to use them to build new cities when neutral ones are so easy to conquer and don't need 32384189741894 turns to grow to the point where you can recruit some half-decent creatures (lvl2).

4) Better wizard "creation". Borrow another page from MOM and make it so that there are more choices during the wizard setup. I liked the advantage/disadvantage system but things can be improved. Maybe use some sort of points system where each ability/sphere point costs an X number of points, and a disadvantage nets you Y points.

5) And lastly, bring back the hero development from AOW1. I disliked the slot machine system in the sequels because it felt like I wasn't the one in control. Sure the previous method was abusive (I still remember my max DEF and RES hero plowing through enemy stacks like there's not tomorrow in the campaign), but that doesn't mean that it couldn't be improved. Use prerequisites for every stat and new ability. Perhaps use some sort of a talent tree a la King's Bounty. You want this super duper special attack? Sure thing: here is what stat numbers and what other abilities you need to have.

 

[SCO]

I'd like some kind of interrupt; possibly aided by a 'ready stance' on the previous turn. Maybe a highlevel special ability for ranged units.

Oh, item sets. Guess they would be very rare on random drops, but they'd be nice for map makers.

Speaking of which; better editor. Forbidden spells, campaigns with memory, scripting of everything etc.
This is a good editor related list

 

[SCO]

Also this guy:
https://twitter.com/hellbrick

is doing a good job exec hacking the shadowmagic executable.
http://aow2.clan.su/MPEvolution/beta/changelog.html

It will probably get merged with the unofficial patch eventually.

 

[Metro]

I hope AOW3 will have as good tactical combat as SM. I loved all the special abilities different units have, and the use of height and obstacles, and the fact that heroes didn't get as overpowered as in AOW1.

A better AI is needed, though, both tactically (can't be that hard to program?) and strategically. In AOW2 the AI couldn't even use ships at all. In SM the AI used ships reluctantly.

And let there be a Steam free option. Please.

I hope it's Steam exclusive just to spite you. M:

 

[EruDaan]

1) Better level 1 units. I know that some people think level 2 units need some love too but for me they were always usable (most of them anyway). Every faction gets a cavalry unit which is usually very useful. High movement rate (arguably the most important stat in the game) and decent stats make them a staple in my army stacks. The other lvl 2 units range from fucking awesome (swashbuckler anyone?) to somewhat dubious in utility (slither) but I felt that they had a good price/construction time/combat effectiveness ratio. It's the 1st level units that get the short end of the stick. Only archers are any good and that is only if they get the gold medal. Some are so useless it's embarrassing (hatchling lol).
.

Isn't it that lvl 1 units in these games are nothing but gap fillers, only used at the very beginning of a game until you can build not only the higher lvl / better units but also the buildings required for them? In MoM for example; why should I as a High Men player use Spearman over Paladins? They are the ultimate melee unit of their race. Same with Lizardmen and their Dragon Turtles. Or Gnolls and their Wolfriders. Or Barbarians and their Berzerkers. Or Trolls and their War Trolls. (But not all high end units are that effective. Beastmen armies need supportive units and can't just field Minotaurs).

That's unit progression. Sure it'd be nice to see lvl 1 units fullfilling a supportive role on the battlefield (like in "real" war games / battelfield simulators). But that's not what unit progression in MoM or AoW is about. The later the game the higher the lvl of supernatural units, mortal units and the spells which are, thanked be god, are much more diverse in the regard. Common spells are sometimes as usefal as rare ones ("Holy Armour" vs. "Lionheart" - both are useful even in the late game).

 

[octavius]

I hope AOW3 will have as good tactical combat as SM. I loved all the special abilities different units have, and the use of height and obstacles, and the fact that heroes didn't get as overpowered as in AOW1.

A better AI is needed, though, both tactically (can't be that hard to program?) and strategically. In AOW2 the AI couldn't even use ships at all. In SM the AI used ships reluctantly.

And let there be a Steam free option. Please.

I hope it's Steam exclusive just to spite you. M:

Silence, Steamtard.

 

[catfood]

1) Better level 1 units. I know that some people think level 2 units need some love too but for me they were always usable (most of them anyway). Every faction gets a cavalry unit which is usually very useful. High movement rate (arguably the most important stat in the game) and decent stats make them a staple in my army stacks. The other lvl 2 units range from fucking awesome (swashbuckler anyone?) to somewhat dubious in utility (slither) but I felt that they had a good price/construction time/combat effectiveness ratio. It's the 1st level units that get the short end of the stick. Only archers are any good and that is only if they get the gold medal. Some are so useless it's embarrassing (hatchling lol).
.

Isn't it that lvl 1 units in these games are nothing but gap fillers, only used at the very beginning of a game until you can build not only the higher lvl / better units but also the buildings required for them? In MoM for example; why should I as a High Men player use Spearman over Paladins? They are the ultimate melee unit of their race. Same with Lizardmen and their Dragon Turtles. Or Gnolls and their Wolfriders. Or Barbarians and their Berzerkers. Or Trolls and their War Trolls. (But not all high end units are that effective. Beastmen armies need supportive units and can't just field Minotaurs).

That's unit progression. Sure it'd be nice to see lvl 1 units fullfilling a supportive role on the battlefield (like in "real" war games / battelfield simulators). But that's not what unit progression in MoM or AoW is about. The later the game the higher the lvl of supernatural units, mortal units and the spells which are, thanked be god, are much more diverse in the regard. Common spells are sometimes as usefal as rare ones ("Holy Armour" vs. "Lionheart" - both are useful even in the late game).

I understand what you're saying and that most games suffer from the same problem of having older units becoming obsolete in favour of older ones. But there are some titles where this is not the case. Starcraft is one such game. Depending on the match-up some low-tier units are relevant throughout the match. For instance marines are always useful against zerg. The zerg use zerglings and hydras in most strategies, as do protoss zealots and dragoons.

Another example would be Lords of Magic, which is similar to both MoM and AoW. Now admitedly the number of unit types a faction could recruit was very low (I think it was about 5 or 6), but even the lowly grunt could still be useful, if only for the fact that it was so cheap to produce.

I'm not asking for multiplayer/pvp/competitive kind of balance as I think that takes away a lot of the freedom that designers have, but I would like to have to think about wether or not I should get level 1 or level 2 units, as opposed to level 2 being a no brainer once I get access to them.

 

[EruDaan]

All in all it a matter of game mechanics (what do the developers want) and personal preferance (unit progression that makes older units obsolete or unit progression that unlocks newer units that add more options on the battlefield). But having useful lvl 1 units in AoW3 wouldn't be bad, I agree on that. There are some mods for AoW:SM that actually give lvl 1 units some abilities that might make them useful in special situations. Spearmen for example get either the Dragon Killer / Hunter / whatsthename perk and/or "has a longer range melee weapon" perk that the Knight units have.

 

[octavius]

You can balance most things in the Age of Wonders by modding it. You can even make the AI build Settlers and have it found new cities.
Myself I use a home made mod for AoW:SM that is 1/3 Unofficial Patch, 1/3 Wizards&Heroes mod and 1/3 my own modifications (making the new units introduced by the 1.4 UOP have a chance of "spawning" in various adventure locations, for example, which I thought was an opportunity the 1.4 UOP missed), which works well enough for single player maps.

 

[Black]

I hope AOW3 will have as good tactical combat as SM. I loved all the special abilities different units have, and the use of height and obstacles, and the fact that heroes didn't get as overpowered as in AOW1.

A better AI is needed, though, both tactically (can't be that hard to program?) and strategically. In AOW2 the AI couldn't even use ships at all. In SM the AI used ships reluctantly.

And let there be a Steam free option. Please.

I hope it's Steam exclusive just to spite you. M:

Silence, Steamtard.

Summon Multi-headed Cow

 

[EruDaan]

You can balance most things in the Age of Wonders by modding it. You can even make the AI build Settlers and have it found new cities.
Myself I use a home made mod for AoW:SM that is 1/3 Unofficial Patch, 1/3 Wizards&Heroes mod and 1/3 my own modifications (making the new units introduced by the 1.4 UOP have a chance of "spawning" in various adventure locations, for example, which I thought was an opportunity the 1.4 UOP missed), which works well enough for single player maps.

I think part of the problem is that the devs don't want to work on preventing the "AI" to go wild with settlers. And either don't know how to prevent it or are too lazy about it. And we all know how an unbalanced AI would use settlers -plaster every possible space up with cities. Making an AI vs player match a farce.
Oh, and tell me more about this Wizards&Heroes mod. I only know or use the "CoMA_Dwiggs" mod.

 

[octavius]

You can balance most things in the Age of Wonders by modding it. You can even make the AI build Settlers and have it found new cities.
Myself I use a home made mod for AoW:SM that is 1/3 Unofficial Patch, 1/3 Wizards&Heroes mod and 1/3 my own modifications (making the new units introduced by the 1.4 UOP have a chance of "spawning" in various adventure locations, for example, which I thought was an opportunity the 1.4 UOP missed), which works well enough for single player maps.

I think part of the problem is that the devs don't want to work on preventing the "AI" to go wild with settlers. And either don't know how to prevent it or are too lazy about it. And we all know how an unbalanced AI would use settlers -plaster every possible space up with cities. Making an AI vs player match a farce.

That's not a problem in practice since the conditions for building a new outpost are quite strict, so there won't be cities "everywhere".

Oh, and tell me more about this Wizards&Heroes mod. I only know or use the "CoMA_Dwiggs" mod.

http://aow2.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=785&f=&st=0&ci=

Meant for single player maps.
AI can build setters now.
AI extremely rarely cast buffing spells on units, so cost has been dramatically increased to make it harder for the player.

You can read my (PetrusOctavianus) comments on the last page.

 

[Warmark]

Shadow Magic was a fucking masterpiece. If this is true, then it's an for the ages.

Was it ever, but all of the AoW games have never been off any of my computers and each I enjoyed for different reasons, seeing this post made my week.

 

[Warmark]

You can balance most things in the Age of Wonders by modding it. You can even make the AI build Settlers and have it found new cities.
Myself I use a home made mod for AoW:SM that is 1/3 Unofficial Patch, 1/3 Wizards&Heroes mod and 1/3 my own modifications (making the new units introduced by the 1.4 UOP have a chance of "spawning" in various adventure locations, for example, which I thought was an opportunity the 1.4 UOP missed), which works well enough for single player maps.

I think part of the problem is that the devs don't want to work on preventing the "AI" to go wild with settlers. And either don't know how to prevent it or are too lazy about it. And we all know how an unbalanced AI would use settlers -plaster every possible space up with cities. Making an AI vs player match a farce.

That's not a problem in practice since the conditions for building a new outpost are quite strict, so there won't be cities "everywhere".

Oh, and tell me more about this Wizards&Heroes mod. I only know or use the "CoMA_Dwiggs" mod.

http://aow2.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=785&f=&st=0&ci=

Meant for single player maps.
AI can build setters now.
AI extremely rarely cast buffing spells on units, so cost has been dramatically increased to make it harder for the player.

You can read my (PetrusOctavianus) comments on the last page.

Thanks for that link octavius, I've been only using Dwiggs mod myself and this looks really interesting.

 

[octavius]

Did you or any of your Facebook friends play our Age of Wonders or Overlord games? Then it's time to Like us, because we will soon unveil our unannounced game here on Facebook!! (...with a minimum of 1000 likes even sooner

http://www.facebook.com/TriumphStudiosGames/posts/551144838230294

 

[General Maxson]

Did you or any of your Facebook friends play our Age of Wonders or Overlord games? Then it's time to Like us, because we will soon unveil our unannounced game here on Facebook!! (...with a minimum of 1000 likes even sooner

http://www.facebook.com/TriumphStudiosGames/posts/551144838230294

I liked them. Twice.

I want to see what they will reveal.

 

[catfood]

Overlord! *clap clap clap* Overlord! *clap clap Overlord! *clap clap clap* Overlord! *clap clap clap* Overlord! *clap clap clap* Overlord! *clap clap clap* Overlord! *clap clap clap* Overlord! *clap clap clap* Overlord! *clap clap clap*