My impressions of Torment

[Absalom]

I was also disappointed by the lack of tentacle rape. Truly a horrible game. Back to FF:CC, true rpg goodness.

 

[DraQ]

Vibalist seems to be an antropomorphic personification of the decline (or a good troll), somebody just kill the fucker already.

I LOVE Planescape. It's the only game that feels like it's telling me to just take my time, talk to people, and explore the world. I think my first playthrough took about 60-70 hours.

Yup, exactly, no hurry. Just take your time, feels nice.

Another game that gave off this vibe was Morrowind. Although, individuality-wise, MW's NPCs are polar opposites of those in PS:T, even though the writing quality is good.

 

[inwoker]

retarded trolls are retarded

 

[Satori (original)]

Betrayal at Krondor

Yeah, this is also one that was suggested to me, one I'm looking to get my hands on.

http://www.alt-tab.net/games/betrayal-a ... /download/

 

[Vibalist]

Oh, as opposed to talk to her when you meet her, I take it.

You have the option of initiating dialogue with her, then telling her you're there to kill her. Then you fight her and kill her, and then the game is over.

Are you retarded? Ravel is supposed to give you information without which you're doomed to wander the planes for eternity. It figures that you both disliked Torment, loved BG and attacked Ravel on sight.

In my book having NPCs you can't kill without ending the game isn't very different from the immortal NPCs in games like Oblivion that everyone likes to go on about. Both are there to further important quests, and in both cases the games are designed in such a way that you can't go on playing them if you kill these NPCs.
To me this kind of stuff is completely immersion breaking. I realize Ravel was important in terms of furthering the story and that the Nameless One wouldn't have a chance of continuing without her, but this is exactly why I dislike Planescape. There was so much emphasis placed on the story that it ended up sacrificing other gameplay elements, like freedom of choice.
So in conclusion, if you want a good story go play PS:T. A good story is far from the only thing I look for in a computer game though, hence I ended up disappointed with the game.

 

[MetalCraze]

You are the reason why RPGs are dead.

 

[JarlFrank]

In my book having NPCs you can't kill without ending the game isn't very different from the immortal NPCs in games like Oblivion that everyone likes to go on about. Both are there to further important quests, and in both cases the games are designed in such a way that you can't go on playing them if you kill these NPCs.
To me this kind of stuff is completely immersion breaking. I realize Ravel was important in terms of furthering the story and that the Nameless One wouldn't have a chance of continuing without her, but this is exactly why I dislike Planescape. There was so much emphasis placed on the story that it ended up sacrificing other gameplay elements, like freedom of choice.
So in conclusion, if you want a good story go play PS:T. A good story is far from the only thing I look for in a computer game though, hence I ended up disappointed with the game.

You gotta be fucking kidding here. Many other games wouldn't even give you the choice of attacking a story-important character on sight. Look, you do have the choice. But if you choose to kill her, it's game over for you. You have to live with the fucking consequences. Also, you gotta be fucking retarded to do something like that. One friend of mine always kills anything in most of his RPGs, just for the experience and loot. But when I gave him PST, he had some problems with sidequests, but none at all with Ravel. Because it's goddamn fucking illogical to attack her. You've been searching for that woman for the largest part of the game because she has important information for you, and then you just go and kill her without even asking her anything? What the fuck? Of course you won't be able to go on with your quest because you'll never find out what Ravel actually did to you!
Torment has a large focus on story, but that also means that most of the stuff in PST is actually reasonable and you know what you have to do and why you have to do it. If you just kill someone you've been looking for during the last few hours of the game, well... then you're a complete idiot and it serves you right to get a game over screen.

 

[Fat Dragon]

Well, if I wanted to read I'd buy a book already. Having to read a wall of text everytime I had to interact with a shopkeeper or open a door was one of the things that ruined Planescape for me.

It was what made the game better to me. It was a 2D game that reused chracter sprites a lot so it was nice to have detailed descriptions of what characters actually looked like, allowing me to better imagine wht their appearance was like. It also made the characters feel more real, like Reekwind for example with all those weird gestures he was described to be doing when telling his stories.

That's just the way I felt when playing the game. Maybe my attention span is short, but I seriously had to drag myself through many of those descriptions.

Some conversations could be kind of a drag, I agree. I recall one guy in the Smoldering Corpse Bar who would go on and on about the planes. I don't mind him giving me some info but the guy himself had no character, it felt as if he just had a textbook and was reading it to me word-for-word.

And when taking into consideration the extremely short, boring sidequests

Side quests were really good I thought, and many had quite a few different solutions to go with. One of my favorite side quests was the really big one for Grace's brothel and all the interesting characters there you could interact with and who had their own problems you could help with. Some were also very creative and nice outcomes as well, like the Moridor's Box quest. Unfortunately, side quests become utter-shit to almost non-existent once you leave Sigil. A major bummer because the content in Sigil is one of the best experiences I've had in an RPG.

the fact that joining a "faction" meant squat

Rising to tops of factions like you would in Morrowind isn't really the point in them in Torment though. It's mainly joinging which one has beliefs that you like the best, representing what Nameless himself believes in. I do recall one of them had some good quests though, the big factory place. I liked the murder solving quest there.

the lack of character customization (armor?)

I never really understood the complaints about lack of armor in the game. You mainly got you stat boosts or whatever from the tattoos or accessories. The armor slot was mainly used for equipping disguises on Nameless. I think there are a few you can buy for Annah and Grace but they don't give any major advantages. And some of the character can't even wear armor, such as Vhailor, Nordom, Morte, Ignus. I think Dakkon considered his armor to be sacred or something and wouldn't remove it for that reason.

 

[ghostdog]

BAT U CANT WARE ARMOUR!

Didn't you guys get the memo? Any game that isn't a party-based high fantasy dungeon hack-fest is officially not an RPG

 

[Darth Roxor]

Well, if I wanted to read I'd buy a book already. Having to read a wall of text everytime I had to interact with a shopkeeper or open a door was one of the things that ruined Planescape for me.

Redding rly is teh hard it seems.

also,

Kondor is tough to play nowadays. The visuals are so incredibly bad it's hard to even imagine what things should look like in your mind. Everything else is so clunky gameplay-wise, it doesn't help matters. The game would've been better being text only or at least 2D, definitely needs a remake.

Bullshit. I had a playthrough of it in July, and not only I wasn't bothered by the visuals (Northlands actually look good, and the art for cities/interiors is great), but also didn't feel any 'clunkyness'. It doesn't need a remake at all, unless you're an utter graphics whore.

 

[The Vanished One]

God bless next-gen games, for they have hi-poly armour, and merrily the bloom doth shine on them.

 

[Texas Red]

God bless next-gen games, for they have hi-poly armour, and merrily the bloom doth shine on them.

Except PS:T looks better than any modern RPG .

 

[SuicideBunny]

In my book having NPCs you can't kill without ending the game isn't very different from the immortal NPCs in games like Oblivion that everyone likes to go on about.

"your book" needs to be burned then.
one is a choice with consequences that are logical, the other is having no choice at all, because the devs couldn't be arsed to bother about possible consequences.

 

[The Vanished One]

Except PS:T looks better than any modern RPG .

Of course. I wish it hadn't sprite mirroring though.

 

[szoreny]

I never really understood the complaints about lack of armor in the game. You mainly got you stat boosts or whatever from the tattoos or accessories. The armor slot was mainly used for equipping disguises on Nameless. I think there are a few you can buy for Annah and Grace but they don't give any major advantages. And some of the character can't even wear armor, such as Vhailor, Nordom, Morte, Ignus. I think Dakkon considered his armor to be sacred or something and wouldn't remove it for that reason.

Yes. The lack of armor never bothered me much, - though it is a bit puzzling given Sigil's place in the scheme of things, you'd think they'd have absolutely everything available for purchase in a city sitting at the 'center' of the universe. Here's a setting where the outrageous selection at say BG2's adventure mart would actually seem appropriate.

In my book having NPCs you can't kill without ending the game isn't very different from the immortal NPCs in games like Oblivion that everyone likes to go on about.

That's funny. Killing a quest-important NPC and getting a game-over screen is hmm, a much better solution to this problem then having said NPC go 'unconscious.' The game-over screen tells you that you've ended the story, and that you'll have to reload. The unconscious NPC tells you that the designers thought you were too dumb/lazy to save your game or be expected to reload. It *might* be ok if the designers didn't then throw this quest important NPC into combat situations where you can watch it repeatedly get knocked out by hostile critters, which is just dumb on so many levels. Instead of designing their way around the problem or giving the player the (well-blanaced I hope) assignment of monitoring the health and well-being of important characters, the designers coast on their VIP's arbitrary immortality.

Morrowind's solution where you get the
'you're fucked!....but if you really want to you can continue playing the game you just broke..." is even better. Yes there's no creeping doom or content specific to the broken world, just a static unfinishable game - but at least they give you the option.

 

[Kavax]

Another thing I like about Torment is that it's like a deconstruction of the typical RPG game...

-Armor, experience and loot is not important.
-Rats are powerful enemies.
-You can't choose a gender, a race, or a name for your character, but you can however define his personality and beliefs more deeply than in any other RPG.
-Many of the characters that give you quests in the game are people that your character gave quests to in the past (PHAROD)
-Non-main quest related characters get huge dialogs, many rivalling that of main quest characters from other games.

I bet I could go on and on about other typical RPG elements that are subverted.

 

[JarlFrank]

Another thing I like about Torment is that it's like a deconstruction of the typical RPG game...

-Armor, experience and loot is not important.
-Rats are powerful enemies.
-You can't choose a gender, a race, or a name for your character, but you can however define his personality and beliefs more deeply than in any other RPG.
-Many of the characters that give you quests in the game are people that your character gave quests to in the past (PHAROD)
-Non-main quest related characters get huge dialogs, many rivalling that of main quest characters from other games.

I bet I could go on and on about other typical RPG elements that are subverted.

Experience actually is important, getting much of it makes you able to increase your important stats.

 

[PorkaMorka]

Bullshit. I had a playthrough of it in July, and not only I wasn't bothered by the visuals (Northlands actually look good, and the art for cities/interiors is great), but also didn't feel any 'clunkyness'. It doesn't need a remake at all, unless you're an utter graphics whore.

I have to slightly agree with him.

The graphics in and of themselves are quite playable, but the problem arises when you combine the crude 3d graphics with the ultra limited array of objects such as buildings that are available in the game. Throw in the clunky 3d movement and it's needlessly tiresome to look for a particular barn you need to get back to out of several.

I really liked it last time I played it, but then I was doing some sidequests and in one of them I had to report back to a barn way out in the middle of nowhere and there were a couple of similar barns in the area. Needless to say, I got annoyed and quit.

It's not the graphics, it's the reuse of 4 building models combined with 3d with almost no landmarks. If it used 2d grid type movement instead of 3d that crudeness would be less of an issue but as is, finding your way to particular spots away from the main road can suck.

 

[Darth Roxor]

The graphics in and of themselves are quite playable, but the problem arises when you combine the crude 3d graphics with the ultra limited array of objects such as buildings that are available in the game. Throw in the clunky 3d movement and it's needlessly tiresome to look for a particular barn you need to get back to out of several.

I really liked it last time I played it, but then I was doing some sidequests and in one of them I had to report back to a barn way out in the middle of nowhere and there were a couple of similar barns in the area. Needless to say, I got annoyed and quit.

It's not the graphics, it's the reuse of 4 building models combined with 3d with almost no landmarks. If it used 2d grid type movement instead of 3d that crudeness would be less of an issue but as is, finding your way to particular spots away from the main road can suck.

Well, yes, if there was one feature I would gladly see in BaK, it would be an ability to do landmarks on the map like in the infinity engine games.

 

[Texas Red]

Another thing I like about Torment is that it's like a deconstruction of the typical RPG game...

-Armor, experience and loot is not important.
-Rats are powerful enemies.
-You can't choose a gender, a race, or a name for your character, but you can however define his personality and beliefs more deeply than in any other RPG.
-Many of the characters that give you quests in the game are people that your character gave quests to in the past (PHAROD)
-Non-main quest related characters get huge dialogs, many rivalling that of main quest characters from other games.

I bet I could go on and on about other typical RPG elements that are subverted.

Experience actually is important, getting much of it makes you able to increase your important stats.

Enemies give insignificant amount of XP, while quests and just conversation ludicrous rewards.

 

[A user named cat]

Bullshit. I had a playthrough of it in July, and not only I wasn't bothered by the visuals (Northlands actually look good, and the art for cities/interiors is great), but also didn't feel any 'clunkyness'. It doesn't need a remake at all, unless you're an utter graphics whore.

Bullshit back onto you. Ancient 3D games do not age well, at all. Especially when nearly the entire gameworld looks like Fisher Price building blocks combined with sluggish movement controls. Tons of people have wanted a remake for years, go look around. Call it graphic whoring if you want, fact of the matter is the game looks like complete ass and would've been better to have at least all text descriptions for everything instead of looking at houses that resemble something an 8 year old could draw. Welcome to 2008, just because next-gen games mostly suck doesn't mean the technology we have today couldn't be utilized properly.

 

[DraQ]

You are the reason why RPGs are dead.

He also gives AIDS and bone cancer to poor orphans.

I think he should be injected with Ebola, then, after he expires, his carcass, still throbbing with virii, should be shredded into tiny bits and those bits fed to those towelhead fucks who stone rape victims.

:codexdevil:

It doesn't need a remake at all, unless you're an utter graphics whore.

I haven't played it yet, but looks passable at very least.

Ancient 3D games do not age well, at all.

Unless they are Frontier, FFE or Another World (ok, AW was 2D, but used vector graphics as well).

I like good graphics, but graphics is one of the least important things in games.

 

[Ravn7]

Hi all. I've never finished Torment. It was so long ago I can't even remember why, but I'm gonna do this now. I've already got the game. Do I need some community patch or something like that? Except resolution mod, ofc.

Except PS:T looks better than any modern RPG .

Exactly. Games in 3D often look worse because the amount of detail is much lower. And in PS:T it's really impressive. Only in the last 2 years I've seen really decent graphics - few places in Gothic 3 look nice, storms in Oblivion look cool (if u get a chance to see one before you're bored to death) and The Witcher has very good graphics (not so "sterile" as most games).

I also think that 16-bit color looked usually better. Now it's all looks so fucking cheerful. And that shitty glow thing everywhere. Makes me blink all the fucking time :/

 

[The Vanished One]

Do I need some community patch or something like that? Except resolution mod, ofc.

Some links (I highly recommend Qwinn's mods):

Qwinn's Fixpack, Unfinished Business, Tweak tools and ghostdog's UI mod:
http://www.shsforums.net/index.php?showforum=551


The official PS:T website, now hosted at planescape.outshine.com:
http://planescape.outshine.com/official ... index.html


Spellhold Studios and The Gibberlings Three, two modding communities:
http://www.spellholdstudios.net/
http://www.gibberlings3.net/


The PS:T pages at Bootstrike.com and Gamebanshee:
http://www.bootstrike.com/Torment/
http://www.gamebanshee.com/planescapetorment/


"Tales of Torment" interview at RPGWatch:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/article?ar ... f=0&id=208


"The Pit", a no longer updated website about PS:T:
http://torment.sorcerers.net/


PS:T soundtrack:
http://planescape.outshine.com/index5b5 ... soundtrack

Also, welcome to the Codex, run away now, as fast as you can.

 

[DraQ]

Exactly. Games in 3D often look worse because the amount of detail is much lower.

Bullshit. The detail is much higher in 3D games, the thing is, that in a 2D game, you could simply evenly distribute the detail saturating the entire screen with detail and be done with this, while in a 3D game the perspective comes into play - small details in the background are irrelevant, while sticking your nose into wall will always reveal the blurry textures.

2D graphics has basically finished it's evolution, 3D has a long way to go and is still pretty clunky.

I also think that 16-bit color looked usually better. Now it's all looks so fucking cheerful. And that shitty glow thing everywhere. Makes me blink all the fucking time :/

It's not that they looked better, but with limited resources, good art direction was more important and better investment.

I predict another golden age of gaming once we hit the photorealism ceiling - there will be no point to improve the graphics further if no one will be able to see the improvement anyway, and just as in old times, the developers will have to get creative again in order to survive.

Either that, or the mainstream will rock happily in front of their consoles, in vegetative state, their eyes caressed by gentle bloom, ruberized, drool-proof, button-less controllers stuck into various body orifices.