My impressions of Torment

[Vibalist]

In my book having NPCs you can't kill without ending the game isn't very different from the immortal NPCs in games like Oblivion that everyone likes to go on about. Both are there to further important quests, and in both cases the games are designed in such a way that you can't go on playing them if you kill these NPCs.
To me this kind of stuff is completely immersion breaking. I realize Ravel was important in terms of furthering the story and that the Nameless One wouldn't have a chance of continuing without her, but this is exactly why I dislike Planescape. There was so much emphasis placed on the story that it ended up sacrificing other gameplay elements, like freedom of choice.
So in conclusion, if you want a good story go play PS:T. A good story is far from the only thing I look for in a computer game though, hence I ended up disappointed with the game.

You gotta be fucking kidding here. Many other games wouldn't even give you the choice of attacking a story-important character on sight. Look, you do have the choice. But if you choose to kill her, it's game over for you. You have to live with the fucking consequences. Also, you gotta be fucking retarded to do something like that. One friend of mine always kills anything in most of his RPGs, just for the experience and loot. But when I gave him PST, he had some problems with sidequests, but none at all with Ravel. Because it's goddamn fucking illogical to attack her. You've been searching for that woman for the largest part of the game because she has important information for you, and then you just go and kill her without even asking her anything? What the fuck? Of course you won't be able to go on with your quest because you'll never find out what Ravel actually did to you!
Torment has a large focus on story, but that also means that most of the stuff in PST is actually reasonable and you know what you have to do and why you have to do it. If you just kill someone you've been looking for during the last few hours of the game, well... then you're a complete idiot and it serves you right to get a game over screen.

You're right of course. I guess I should have thought that one over. I guess my real problem is with how the game handles the plot-important NPCs. Somehow it just felt silly and restricting to have the game tell you "game over" when it at the same time allowed you stroll up and just attack the plot important NPCs. Still, every game has its restrictions and I can see how it was pretty stupid of me to criticise this particular issue.

 

[OSK]

How the hell can you play that Odin Sphere game? The character takes up a quarter of the screen.

 

[Absalom]

Since Ravel's Maze is her "astral plane" , killing her prematurely may just zip you out of existence, depending on what physics the Multiverse follows. Killing her after your conversation is moot, since she's just faking it as she keeps back up to fight the transcendentant (I think that was his name) one.

You could even argue that by doing so you've won the game, since you're trying to die.

 

[DoppelG]

I still remember the day i bought the game. It was after i read a nice review over and over again in one of the (then) trusted games magazines i subscribed myself to. (Did the exact same thing with Fallout, must've read the review at least ten times, wanting to buy/have/play/experience it more and more).
Then one day i finally bought the game, but i first had to go to a birthday party, so i just took the box with me, reading it, studying every part of it. At last, finally home, in the middle of the night, installing it, being overcome with it, the whole night. Man, that was great.

 

[Whispering Darkness]

Just recently got to the Lower Ward. As corny as it may sound, the quests seem rather varied actually. A dumb move by me though is I built my character to be a mage but never really found someone who could teach me the Art. I never read guides on my first play-through but happened across a person who can teach me the Art. It was someone I've spoken with before but just never asked the right things...

Yeah, the game's graphics are pleasant to watch. It's kinda like playing TOEE, with the backdrop scenes, very appealing.

 

[Ravn7]

You need Intelligence and Wisdom in this game. It's hard to play as retarded warrior. At least that's what I heard

Spell animations were awasome. Even now they look good.

 

[JrK]

A dumb move by me though is I built my character to be a mage but never really found someone who could teach me the Art.

It wouldn't hurt for anyone planning to be a mage or thief to look up those things in advance. They can be a bit obscure, and to spend half the game before turning mage is a bit dissappointing.

 

[Wyrmlord]

It was someone I've spoken with before but just never asked the right things...

You will find many many such situations in the game.

It all depends on asking the right thing.

Sometimes, you don't even expect it, because you might not bother to chose dialogue options that seemingly will give an only obvious response, and that's where you will find some important things.

Some of the most valuable opportunities are cleverly hidden behind the simplest dialogue options.

 

[Texas Red]

It was someone I've spoken with before but just never asked the right things...

You will find many many such situations in the game.

It all depends on asking the right thing.

Sometimes, you don't even expect it, because you might not bother to chose dialogue options that seemingly will give an only obvious response, and that's where you will find some important things.

Some of the most valuable opportunities are cleverly hidden behind the simplest dialogue options.

The beauty of Torment is that, without a walkthrough, you won't be able to complete all of the quests on your first try. There's replay value, unlike modern RPGs where it is ensured that every quest can be completed without problems.

 

[Wyrmlord]

To some extent, Torment defies walkthroughs. Because I don't think there has been a truly thorough walkthrough for it till date.

See, after a few playthroughs, I decided to find what stuff I had missed myself, and I noticed that many walkthroughs were missing things that I myself had discovered. And yet many things I had missed as well, which completely changed the game for me.

There are several walkthroughs which don't tell you that the Siege Tower guy gives you something called the Entropic Blade if you surrender the Modron Cube to him. There are many walkthroughs which don't tell that you can get on the good side of Diligence. And so on.

 

[SuicideBunny]

Odin Sphere is no doubt a great looking game, too bad it doesn't have the gameplay to match. Valkyrie Profile also had beautiful backdrops and was similar to OS, except ten times better in almost every way.

too true..

What I really meant in the first place though, was that HoD and such look better than mostly all 3D games we get today.

because they go in different directions. heart of darkness uses the renders to emulate a comic or hand-drawn style to support the character animations, and focuses heavily on animations and flow, while most modern 3d games go for realism with complexity and sacrifice flow in the process.
people nowadays tend to underestimate the potential of low spec 3d art.

How the hell can you play that Odin Sphere game? The character takes up a quarter of the screen.

it zooms out in bigger/boss fights, and there's a good minimap. always running around in circles without ever needing to jump up unless you need to evade or prepare an attack also helps with that display, but yeah, the gameplay sucks after a short while.

This game looks like Sonic the Hedgehog with anime fairies. Awesome.

riiiiiiigh...

 

[Texas Red]

To some extent, Torment defies walkthroughs. Because I don't think there has been a truly thorough walkthrough for it till date.

See, after a few playthroughs, I decided to find what stuff I had missed myself, and I noticed that many walkthroughs were missing things that I myself had discovered. And yet many things I had missed as well, which completely changed the game for me.

There are several walkthroughs which don't tell you that the Siege Tower guy gives you something called the Entropic Blade if you surrender the Modron Cube to him. There are many walkthroughs which don't tell that you can get on the good side of Diligence. And so on.

Diligence? Don't recall it.

 

[Ion Flux]

This game looks like Sonic the Hedgehog with anime fairies. Awesome.

riiiiiiigh...

I guess it takes a connoisseur of side scrolling action games to tell the difference, but they look pretty similar to me. :shrug:

 

[SuicideBunny]

one is a jump'n run, the other is technically a slightly unusual beat'em up, which even i can tell, without being a fan of either genre.

 

[Ion Flux]

You're right. I was just trying to advertise my pretentious disdain for games I have never played. So just ignore me, it's easier.

 

[SuicideBunny]

segmentation fault in sarcasm module. core dump initiated.

 

[Ion Flux]

segmentation fault in sarcasm module. core dump initiated.

No seriously. I mean it. I usually have nothing of value to say (when it comes to games anyway). Sheesh, can't someone be legitimately self-effacing in here?

 

[Wyrmlord]

Diligence? Don't recall it.

Diligence was the name of a female magistrate who threatened to call guards on you because of your appearance.

And also, there are some things in the game that you just stumble upon and then forget how you achieved it in the first place. I still don't remember how I convinced the Clueless person in the Smoldering Corpse Bar that he had plains confused with planes.

 

[Whispering Darkness]

Well, completed the game... Wow. A lot of good to be said about the game, and some bad too. After completing it, it shot to my top 3 games, easily. Will leave this thread with my over all impressions of Torment and be done with it.

Things I enjoyed: Reading, lots and lots of reading. I would easily spend hours of doing nothing but reading descriptive text and dialog. No combat, just story, plot, intrigue. The companions were interesting to travel with. When a companion would start to get stale, something would happen to flesh out their story more. Well, since I am on the topic of companions, I will briefly speak of romances. I've heard lots of people's points. Either sex for sex's sake or "GTFO of my RPG!" Some say there is no reason for romance because it does not advance the plot and is not related to the general direction of the game. Does saving the kitty from the tree for the old lady down the street advance the plot? No. But if it is written and executed well in the setting, is it enjoyable and perhaps a memorable experience? Yes. In game romance can help give characters more life since romance and relations to one another is part of life. But of course, if done shamelessly and without substance, it loses it's charm. Continuing on... The ending was very enjoyable, kinda makes you think. What would you have done? Also the fact you can "complete" the game without combating the final boss. I did miss a bit of the game, quests and other things due to the fact that I did not use a walkthrough. So another plus... I will play it again to experience even more of the game.

Things I did not enjoy: End game content... Once you left Sigil, it seemed that all content was axed. Descriptive and dialog text was cut down to the bare minimum: Go here, do that, come back, end. And when you start running out of content, what do you do? Combat... Lots and lots of seemingly pointless combat. It was a real downer compared with the majority of the game. Some other things... Some companions did not have a satisfactory conclusion when the game was over. Annah possible romance kinda sparked here and there and hinted through out the game but ended without any real conclusion. But you could conclude that since you are leaving for eternity to fight a war, no more can be done. Grace's conclusion was more plausible but it kinda seemed like a romance could have happened. And her damn diary, I wanna read it. Sitting in her inventory and not letting my slate my curiosity.

I've only spoken from a single play through, I have missed things in game and have not seen all the content. So some things may be possible, I just have not done it myself yet.

Conclusion: I'm glad I played it, will play it again. For those who have not played it... Play it, don't use a walk through, and enjoy.

 

[SkeleTony]

I kept trying to force myself to play through and be interested in PS:T but to no avail. I love to read. I read a LOT. I also love to watch NFL football games. But I do not enjoy reading WHILE watching NFL football games. Likewise I do not enjoy reading while playing computer games. I do not care how well done the dialog or plotting is compared to other video games. Even if I wanted to interrupt my gaming with the chore of reading walls and walls and walls of text, the PS:T stuff would not do it for me.As good as one might think PS:T's writing is compared to the usual video game scripting, it is still not Gene Wolfe or Michael Moorcock or Harlan Ellison.

I do not play any games with modern graphics really and do not play any 'twitch' games(everything I play is turn-based and requires some sort of thinking). But having to read through walls of text that may or may not even be relevant to beating(or even just enjoying) the game just feels like work to me. Like I am sitting down to play a game and take a break from reading only to be forced to read a bunch of boring text(and possibly some not-so-boring text thrown in somewhere).

But to each his own...

 

[Texas Red]

You don't just read. PS:T is one of the best ROLEPLAYING games because you have to constantly pick options in regards to your chosen play style.

 

[Whispering Darkness]

You don't just read. PS:T is one of the best ROLEPLAYING games because you have to constantly pick options in regards to your chosen play style.

Would have to agree. There are many times when the options are amusing, intriguing, and engrossing.

But having to read through walls of text that may or may not even be relevant to beating(or even just enjoying) the game just feels like work to me. Like I am sitting down to play a game and take a break from reading only to be forced to read a bunch of boring text(and possibly some not-so-boring text thrown in somewhere).

But to each his own...

Well, that is what a lot of RPGs have to offer. Text is how some games pull you into the story and elements of the setting. If you do not wish to read while playing games, that is perfectly fine. But some would say that is the point of RPGs.

 

[IdaGno]

When TNO first met and interacted w/Annah, she pissed him off, so he offed her.

Eventually, she became his fav boon companion.

You know, kind of like things in R/L, like maybe broccoli.

 

[Wyrmlord]

I kept trying to force myself to play through and be interested in PS:T but to no avail. I love to read. I read a LOT. I also love to watch NFL football games. But I do not enjoy reading WHILE watching NFL football games. Likewise I do not enjoy reading while playing computer games. I do not care how well done the dialog or plotting is compared to other video games. Even if I wanted to interrupt my gaming with the chore of reading walls and walls and walls of text, the PS:T stuff would not do it for me.As good as one might think PS:T's writing is compared to the usual video game scripting, it is still not Gene Wolfe or Michael Moorcock or Harlan Ellison.

I do not play any games with modern graphics really and do not play any 'twitch' games(everything I play is turn-based and requires some sort of thinking). But having to read through walls of text that may or may not even be relevant to beating(or even just enjoying) the game just feels like work to me. Like I am sitting down to play a game and take a break from reading only to be forced to read a bunch of boring text(and possibly some not-so-boring text thrown in somewhere).

But to each his own...

Don't read.

Just check up the gist from the journal afterwards. :wink:

 

[Volourn]

Journal requires reading, though...