Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Against the Chris Avellone personality cult

Invictus

Arcane
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
2,789
Location
Mexico
Divinity: Original Sin 2
Frankly I am one of those "what have you done for me lately" kind of people
Avellone has not delivered anything that can be considered outstanding since Kotor II
Even good to great characters like Durance dont make everything all right
He needs to take more of a lead role on projects and take some chances instead of beign a strech goal ffs
Look at Sawyer, he has shown me he can move beyond the "balance the system" and do some good stuff, cant say I am Roguey and I love his ass but it is pretty nice to see that sort of growth both as a lead and a creator... Avellone has gone kind of backwards
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,824
Durance is clearly a Man Going His Own Way on account of
Worship the whims of some fickle bitch and you'll never be more than the dirt beneath her feet.

Worship what she worships, on the other hand, take her fire for your own, and her esteem comes on its own.

Of course, by that time you no longer need it.

Of course the joke is that he doesn't live up to his own ideals.
 

Shin

Cipher
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
683
Constantine Karamanlis said:
We are given to the cult of personality; when things go badly we look to some messiah to save us. If by chance we think we have found one, it will not be long before we destroy him.
 

bminorkey

Guest
he is probably one of the best "CRPG"-genre writers, but there are better RPG writers in the industry

i respect the guy but i think he is definitely surpassable.

by the way, i really didn't like Durance

Who is better than him?

personally i prefer to look at a writer's consistency. in avellone's case i would say planescape: torment is an exception rather than the rule. probably a lot of people will disagree, but i find the settings and concepts in the soulsborne series to be consistently more exciting and provocative than anything avellone wrote in the last 15 years
 
Self-Ejected

Irenaeus

Self-Ejected
Patron
Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual The Real Fanboy
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
1,867,980
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Cidade Desespero
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera
he is probably one of the best "CRPG"-genre writers, but there are better RPG writers in the industry

i respect the guy but i think he is definitely surpassable.

by the way, i really didn't like Durance

Who is better than him?

personally i prefer to look at a writer's consistency. in avellone's case i would say planescape: torment is an exception rather than the rule. probably a lot of people will disagree, but i find the settings and concepts in the soulsborne series to be consistently more exciting and provocative than anything avellone wrote in the last 15 years

:lol: @ not answering the question
 

Iznaliu

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 28, 2016
Messages
3,686
If there's any real criticism of the character it's that he's not an original character if you know Avellone's work. He is a male version of Kreia and a less complex, deep version at that. He's an arrogant, self-centered asshole who thinks themselves right, has an unhealthy fixation on the PC out of a mix of envy and desire to vicariously live through the PC, enjoy their talents and destiny by playing a mentor/companion bending them to his viewpoint.

The main difference, and an important one at that, is that while Kreia sucessfully manipulated the Exile to some degree, Durance was a total washout.
 

Robespierre

Madame Guillotine
Patron
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
424
Location
It's Kitten Time at the GreatCrystalShrine
Make the Codex Great Again!
Durance, while well-written, just feels out of place. And the same can be said about the grieving mother. Kreia is another story, since she is the main character of KoTOR II : the story, all the characters, are somewhow tied to her; the Exile is just a mean to an end. That's what made KoTOR II great in the first place.
Durance resolves nothing, he spends his time prattling about the firing whore, and that's about it (although I admit my memories of Pillows of Inanity are fuzzy).

MCA, instead of defiling his own Magnum Opus with Beamdog, should come up with another personal story to tell. That's where his talent lies, that's where he shines. The path he took as a gimmicky streatch-goal for "muh old-skĂĽĂĽl cRPGs revival" is a gigantic waste.
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
8,092
Durance doesn't hate women, he's obsessed with Magran.

Dudes like someone who married someone like Sasha Grey when she was still doing porn and gave everything for her, but couldn't get her to quit. He knows she's probably leading him on and doesn't care, that attitude was a big reason why he loves her, but he doesn't have proof. In the game he gets it and all his suspensions fall into place.

As for foreigners, he doesn't hate them he hates the Aedyran for their empire and what it did to his people and the Readceran for being poor, weak farmers, not strong and industrial like his lot were, especially for also worshiping meek Eothas and not strong Magran. That point is made all the worse by the later revelation behind the Saint's War and realizing that he ultimately was on the wrong side.

If he's anything he pretty much something like a modern atheist or someone hung up on old European paganism that hates Christianity, works to rid the world of it only to realize it was not only right but the good it was doing for the world and that his beloved cause was for nothing.

the Exile is just a mean to an end

Like hell they are. Kreia is obsessed with the Exile because they can live without the Force, the big thing she's wanted in her life. It's why she despises Sion despite the power he had, it all came from the Force, so he wasn't the source of his strength and was nothing in her eyes. She lived vicariously through the Exile, loving influencing them and hoping they'd see her way in that creepy was trainers and others latch onto athletes and conflate their achievements with their own.

Durance resolves nothing,

Here's a hint about PoE's thematic foundation: NOTHING GETS RESOLVED!

The theme of the game is about the futility and meaningless of life and every quest revolves around that to some degree or another, especially the companion quests. Picking that theme to build a game is not a good idea, it is not fun and will produce apathy in ones audience unless the entire thing flies over their head.

Even when it comes to companion quests that might be able to be resolved some what, like Aloth's, they still end with big shoulder shrug and sigh, not even an attempt to try to resolve the problem it anymore.

At least in the case of Durance his past actions get put into a new perspective that destroys his old world view and shows exactly how evil he is: Eothas was right. Not only that, Eothas was the only real god who did care about mortals and practiced what he preached by coming down and trying to stop Waidwen's Legacy before it began. All that rhetoric Eothasians prattle on about was completely true and puts others actions into perspective as well: Eder part in the Saint's War was also on the wrong side, his brother's actions joining Waidwen were proven true, but we don't get to see that in his own side quest, we just come to a ruined, buried banner where his brothers trail runs cold and the last conversation about is Eder admitting he'll probably never know the truth.

If you want to make a movie about something like that, it can work. A book? Can work. Pretty much any other form of art and it will, but you cannot make a game that is futile and goalless because it defeats the entire purpose of what games are. It's also why PoE is constantly limp and drama-less: The story has no resolution, no real goal, and yet the very mechanics of a game require them so we go from plot point to plot point, place to place doing things that carry no weigh and make no attempt to invest us.

The main difference, and an important one at that, is that while Kreia sucessfully manipulated the Exile to some degree, Durance was a total washout.

None the of the game mechanics nor dialogue really allowed for him to while KOTORII was really built around it even if every answer you gave her was wrong and provoked a rant from her.
 
Last edited:

l3loodAngel

Proud INTJ
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
1,452
It is especially funny because the whole alpha-beta-omega thing comes from the 1950s and 1960s and is based on a misconceptions of wolf pack social dynamics, ie observing unrelated, captive wolves and claiming species-wide social behaviour based on that. It's like claiming that all Orcas are stressed out killers because captive Orcas demonstrate such behaviour. Human social dynamics are far more complex and impossible to reduce to something as asinine as "10 Steps To Being Alpha Male and Getting All the Pussy - buy now for $29.99".

Well if species behave like that and it resembles our society, it doesn't matter if they do it captivity (even IF that would be true) or not. Just because animals can alter their behaviour when the resources are abundant or vice versa means so little to me and does not change the fact that they do behave like that in certain conditions.

And even if we take into account that an Alpha is the oldest male and the only male except for his offspring, he is the OLDEST and the main male of the group, who kinda has a status of the leader. How he became one is highly irrelevant.

Human society for me is closer to chimpanzees, where not the biggest and most aggressive can become Alpha, but also the smartest. Who is an alpha in our society: one who drives new BMW M series (a big business owner) or who is a buff security guard?


Didn't amuse me, while that Good men project is a huge SJW drivel. TBH I am not even sure where you took that garbage from (usual SJW shit):
http://westernwildlife.org/gray-wolf-outreach-project/biology-behavior-4/
"The alpha wolves decide when the pack will travel and hunt, and normally are the first to eat at a kill. The pair’s offspring normally disperse into adjacent or available territories at 2 to 3 years of age. For packs studied in the Northern Rocky Mountain region, the average dispersal distance and subsequent new pack formation is about 65 miles." - some serious captivity here 65 miles. Big cage man, big cage.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/g/gray-wolf/
"Wolfpacks are established according to a strict hierarchy, with a dominant male at the top and his mate not far behind. Usually this male and female are the only animals of the pack to breed. All of a pack's adults help to care for young pups by bringing them food and watching them while others hunt." - Go teach NG a lesson, with you SJW shit.
 
Last edited:

Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,471
Durance doesn't hate women, he's obsessed with Magran.

That's just it, Magran isn't a woman, she's a Goddess. An impossible, unreachable ideal, that makes all real women pale in comparison.

And he's also got some very conflicting emotions concerning her as well. He respects that she's all about the payoff, but at the same time can't stand the thought of her constantly shacking up with Galawain.

For every hard truth Durance says, he spouts even more hypocrisy - some of which he's starting to become aware of. Worse yet, doubt is starting to creep in, which is, for a man so stubborn and uncompromising in his devotion, the greatest possible threat.

Which is exactly why he's a great (video game) character - people, real people, hold many contradictory and opposing views, it's in our nature. We change, stagnate, believe in one thing today, and claim an entirely different thing tomorrow, we lie - both to ourselves, and to others. Durance is hardly the best possible example of this, but he's a step in the right direction for the gaming industry.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
He wrote Durance - a man who hates women, despises foreigners and non-human races, and considers CLEANSE THEM WITH FIRE a perfectly valid way to deal with people who worship the wrong gods.
So basically a Muslim then? :M
 

Robespierre

Madame Guillotine
Patron
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
424
Location
It's Kitten Time at the GreatCrystalShrine
Make the Codex Great Again!
Durance doesn't hate women, he's obsessed with Magran.

Another bit of proof that Durance likes women is when you enter the Salty Mast brothel he says banter about wanting to find a hole to put his "other staff".

It proves nothing. Sade, Strindberg, Léo Ferré, Henry de Montherlant or Casanova hated women, yet they still fucked'em. :)

But of course we can argue that truely liking wymyn is just about fucking them.
 

Robespierre

Madame Guillotine
Patron
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
424
Location
It's Kitten Time at the GreatCrystalShrine
Make the Codex Great Again!
I believe Kant died a virgin too. Léo Ferré said during an interview (about wymyn) that Kant, in order to suppress his sexual needs, used to sit under a tree, always the same. Maybe good philosophers don't have time to waste with this shit. Antonin Artaud didn't fuck either. He said that it was "une dilapidation des forces", a waste of strengths. Artaud was such a genius.

Sorry, the interview is in french...
"There is always something "gonady" in women's critics. Women's intelligence is ovarian." :vivelafrance:
 

bminorkey

Guest
he is probably one of the best "CRPG"-genre writers, but there are better RPG writers in the industry

i respect the guy but i think he is definitely surpassable.

by the way, i really didn't like Durance

Who is better than him?

personally i prefer to look at a writer's consistency. in avellone's case i would say planescape: torment is an exception rather than the rule. probably a lot of people will disagree, but i find the settings and concepts in the soulsborne series to be consistently more exciting and provocative than anything avellone wrote in the last 15 years

:lol: @ not answering the question

you are literally quoting my answer can you read
 

jaydee2k

Savant
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Messages
449
For you Chris...

giphy.gif


From my deepest heart.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom