Warcraft III: Reforged - now with lowest user metacritic score of all time

[Black_Willow]

Great post. You're probably a big guy already, time to learn that making even more of a dumbass of yourself when you didn't have nothing to say in the first place is not the smart choice. It's fine to stick to butthurt rating mashing.

Do you mean Age of Empires and Myth? Or older stuff, like C&C or Dune? Those are the period RTS I've played, and they all control worse than Starcraft, and the UI isn't as good.
And the 12 unit limit has to do with Blizzard's lean towards RPG, both in scale, in characterization, in unit abilities, etc.

TA and Dark Reign are the best examples of classic rts that really raised the bar when it comes to options allowing for different unit behaviors, production/economy automation, queuing various stuff etc. But Myth is also a good example when it comes to different formations and their use, although its UI is nothing special in general (but boy, was it groundbreaking in lots of other ways). And the arguments for 12 unit limit are a bit too... outlandish for me, sorry. Like I said, that part alone is utterly ridiculous and I always felt like one of the actual reasons for it was that it was the maximum number of those small unit icons with dmg status they could fit in the window, which made it even more stupid.

Bro, don't get butthurt only because someone pointed your sphincter- and poop-fetish. If you want to you can talk to Jaesun, he may also like such stuff.
As for RTS games, Dark Colony is the timeless masterpiece and Starcraft some shovelware everybody forgot, right?
Also, Dark Reign is also a widely cherished masterpiece...
Among Starcraft's competition from that time, only TA and Myth stand out, and mostly because they tried some 3d graphics (while not being "real" 3d games). Yeah, some games had formations and destructible terrain and whatnot, but ultimately, those were mostly gimmicks.
Only Starcraft stood the test of time, the rest fell into obscurity.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

As for RTS games, Dark Colony is the timeless masterpiece and Starcraft some shovelware everybody forgot, right?

That's exxxtreme high iq goalpost moving. But remember, a 640x480 2d rts was way ahead of the competition in production values in 1998.

only TA and Myth stand out, and mostly because they tried some 3d graphics

some games had formations and destructible terrain and whatnot, but ultimately, those were mostly gimmicks.

Only Starcraft stood the test of time, the rest fell into obscurity.

Not sure if more fake news or hot takes, but why not both, eh.

 

[Black_Willow]

Production values = 3d in 1024 x 768, great to know bro. Guess Prosper's game is much better than Fallout and PS:T, I mean it's in FULL HD 3D!!!11!

I'll leave you alone with your retardation, goodbye.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Literally a post ago you have said that it's enough to make a game stand out

So, will we learn what made SC ahead in production values? Cause this was all really fucking stupid so far.

 

[Slaver1]

Myth and its sequel are mind blowing even if revisited today. The fact there are readily available upscale mods for it doesn't hurt.

Then there's a host of more traditional RTS whether it's C&C, TA, Starcraft or AOE2 each of which are heralded as the greatest by their respective fanbases. Myth truly is the shit and C&C/Red Alert is my pick from 2d RTS classics.

 

[whydoibother]

Production values = 3d in 1024 x 768, great to know bro.

In that case Total Annihilation is the best RTS of the 20th century

 

[Slaver1]

Myth truly is the shit

A Myth-like is on ma to make games if I were a dev myself. It's rather dissapointing to think that Bungie's Halo turned out to be some console FPS rather than futuristic tank RTS made in Myth engine as it started at the beginning of the production.

They went onto bigger if not better things for sure. I often think how cool an evolution of Myth would be. Like mixing a D&D style RPG where you control a small party with independent units and armies going about their business as in Myth. For example your party could assist a village and its gathered militia against a goblin incursion. Anyway, slim chances of a game like that happening anymore with the sad direction the hobby has gone in.

 

[whydoibother]

They went onto bigger if not better things for sure. I often think how cool an evolution of Myth would be. Like mixing a D&D style RPG where you control a small party with independent units and armies going about their business. For example your party could assist a village and its gathered militia against a goblin incursion. Anyway, slim chances of a game like that happening anymore with the sad direction the hobby has gone in.

Some Warcraft III campaigns kind of play like that. And in general, Warcraft III is your Myth successor game, sort of.

 

[Average Manatee]

Yeah AOE2 the AI, and unit control are much worse than SC, after they've patched it for 20 years its now better but that's because Blizzard intentionally didn't 'improve' Brood War.

To this day I find AoE2's UI and controls to be unplayable shit by the standards set by SC1 in 1998. You still can't move units in a control group without them running backwards to get in their stupid fucking formation that is completely useless and only looks good on boxarts and in campaigns. And its next to impossible to learn the game because every goddamned unit (there's 100s now) has hidden combat stats vs. every other unit in the game which differ wildly and make the unit counters seem to be complete random nonsense unless you've already played for 1000 hours.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

In that case Total Annihilation is the best RTS of the 20th century

TA's engine is amazing and goes well beyond that with not modding needed.

stupid fucking formation that is completely useless and only looks good on boxarts and in campaigns.

Fake news itt? Impossibru.

 

[J1M]

Imagine thinking a reference to resolution is an pwn when we are talking about 15" CRTs.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Yeah, every child knows that res made no difference on crts, particularly for strategy games. This is real news and all the games were actually running in vga and gamers were none the wiser until jesus released the first flat screen. Only prestigious devs like blizzard caught on to this, that's why D2 was still a 640x480 game in 2000 lol.

 

[Great Deceiver]

The irony is really edgy in these last few pages, but Zboj Lamignat has a point, even though I don't agree with his examples necessarily.

I bought Starcraft on launch and played it a lot when it was still relatively fresh (until WC3 came out basically), but something it was never considered was technologically advanced. In fact, Blizzard wasn't known for pushing the technological envelope in those days at all. Diablo 1 was neat, but 2 was very behind technologically when it released in 2000.

I also bought Myth 1 on launch in 1997 (a full year before SC) and that was a much more technically impressive game, with real 3d (deformable) terrain, arrow and explosion physics (if you say those don't matter you've never played Myth), stuff like satchels and fire arrows getting soaked during rain, arrows getting caught on trees, friendly fire, etc. Not to mention the excellent and intuitive interface, full camera control, unit facing actually mattering, creative scenarios with stuff like enemies coming out of the water under a bridge to attack you (was mindblowing at the time), etc.

Now, that's a separate discussion from whether technologically more advanced games of the type could compete in gameplay or had any staying power at all, but to outright dismiss the correct claims that Blizzard games weren't technologically impressive is silly. They were merely competent.

 

[Lacrymas]

Blizzard were never innovators, only quite skillful refiners, at least in those days.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/chronicles-of-the-second-war-tides-of-darkness.327574/

Chronicles of the Second War: Tides of Darkness

Relive the events of Warcraft II orc campaign, reimagined in Reforged engine.
Experience rich lore from the events of the Second War, based on classic games and novels.
Enjoy the gameplay that merges best features of WC2 and WC3, through RTS and RPG missions.
Explore mysterious places and conquer mighty cities with beautifully crafted terrain and decorations.

 

[cvv]

Whaaa?

I loved W2 back in the day as a wee lad. I feel I wanna play it.

Do I wanna play it?

 

[Lacrymas]

Although it looks good, you have to play (or God forbid, buy) Refunded, so it's not worth it. Watch a let's play.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

If it turns out to be really good enough, it would warrant buying Reforge at a deep sale.

 

[Lacrymas]

Isn't it just a remake of WC2, though? I looked up a video of the first mission and it's literally the starting map of WC2's orc campaign.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Yes, that's the point of a remake.

 

[Lacrymas]

I thought it was a retelling of the events of the Second War, not a literal remake of WC2.

 

[Gandalf]

It says RPG (and RTS) missions in the trailer, so I guess it is a bit different.

 

[Lacrymas]

You have RPG missions in WC2 iirc. WC1 also has them.

 

[cvv]

If it turns out to be really good enough, it would warrant buying Reforge at a deep sale.

Haven't bought anything from Blizzard in yeeeaaaars but I don't think they do deep sales. Afaik the best you can hope is 50%, that's 15 bucks.

 

[Lacrymas]

Nah, they go lower with some games. D2R has been consistently discounted to around 13 Euro which is more than 50%. But don't buy Refunded whatever you do. Pick a copy of WC2 off of GOG and play that instead of this remake.