Robust JRPGs like Final Fantasy?

[Grauken]

Probably the only time I ever played the card game was when it was introduced. Not sure why devs develop garbage like that

 

[Ash]

So you played just one 30 second game and decided it was beneath you without exploring any of its depth or giving it time to evolve...
Always try your best to not knee-jerk judge games, haven't you learnt? Video games most commonly have introductory/tutorial periods where they drip-feed you the game to not overwhelm. You need to give them time. That's why I made myself suffer through 8-10 hours of suikoden 2, or all of Chrono Trigger, despite never resonating with it from the start. You don't need to give that much of your time but 30 seconds introductory is not enough.

Later the card game introduces lots of new rules, rules shift around regions based on your choices, it loops back to the core gameplay in a significant way with the Card mod and Card Refine abilities, and you can bypass a lot of magic drawing with Card Refine. Playing with FF8's Hardtype mod 'Rebirth' the card game practically becomes mandatory to a degree and that's a good thing.

Now we know why people don't understand what OP is talking about. Triple triad is legit one of the best things about FF8, and I HATE card games normally. In fact it's probably what spoiled normal card games for me.

 

[Grauken]

So you played just one 30 second game and decided it was beneath you without exploring any of its depth...

Now we know why people don't understand what OP is talking about. Triple triad is legit one of the best things about FF, and I HATE card games normally.

Given that I never needed it even once, it was clearly irrelevant to the game

 

[Ash]

It's true, you don't need it vanilla. But, we're talking about RPGs and optional content. Keyword being "optional". You don't need to do side quests in a lot of RPGs either, but does that make them irrelevant? No. If good, you consume them all. And Triple Triad is gud shit.

Good RPGs are not truly experienced unless you experience all their worthwhile content.
Also FF8's tedious magic drawing is partially bypassed with card refine so it's well worth doing.

 

[Grauken]

It's true, you don't need it vanilla. But, we're talking about RPGs and optional content. Keyword being "optional". You don't need to do side quests in a lot of RPGs either, but does that make them irrelevant? No.

Most side quests are fun, card games are boring

 

[Ash]

I would agree, but this is no ordinary card game. The card game in FF9 was the one that was largely cosmetic/a trivial distraction. TT is the best sub-game in the entire series. Oh well, moving on...

 

[Ash]

OP, might I recommend Onimusha 4: Dawn of Dreams? Flies under the radar all the time but I'm a fan. My favorite Onimusha game.

How much of an aRPG is it, exactly? Well, there's level ups, abilities tree and likewise upgrade systems, some dialogue choices, gold, inventory, multiple playable characters etc. It probably just about qualifies as an ARPG. But it has rather robust gameplay nonetheless. Combat, many puzzles, character building, challenge rooms, lots of hidden content. It's a very solid game let down by one retarded mechanic (critical chain spam).

Also, if you've already played Symphony of the Night, try the NDS Castlevanias e.g Order of Ecclesia & Portrait of Ruin.

Final Fantasy X-2 also flies under the radar. It was the last turn-based Final Fantasy game to have gameplay emphasis. Not as good as the 90s FF but I consider it equal to 10 & 12, which are all very good and very shitty in their own unique ways. The first set of decline for the series but they were still trying at the time.

also the last FF to have bangin music:

 

[Arthandas]

Given that I never needed it even once, it was clearly irrelevant to the game

You're irrelevant to this discussion yet here you are...

OP, might I recommend Onimusha 4: Dawn of Dreams? Flies under the radar all the time but I'm a fan. My favorite Onimusha game.

How much of an aRPG is it, exactly? Well, there's level ups, abilities tree and likewise upgrade systems, some dialogue choices, gold, inventory, multiple characters etc. It probably just about qualifies as an ARPG. But it has rather robust gameplay nonetheless. Combat, many puzzles, character building, challenge rooms, lots of hidden content. It's a very solid game let down by one retarded mechanic (critical chain spam).

Also, if you've already played Symphony of the Night, try the NDS Castlevanias e.g Order of Ecclesia & Portrait of Ruin.

Final Fantasy X-2 also flies under the radar. It was the last turn-based Final Fantasy game to have gameplay emphasis. Not as good as the 90s FF but I consider it equal to 10 & 12, which are all very good and very shitty in their own unique ways. The first set of decline for the series but they were still trying at the time.

I'm not saying Oni 4 is bad or anything but I'd rather play Nioh or DMC. Also, I want a proper JRPG (doesn't need to be turn based). I'm playing Tales of Vesperia right now, it's the first Tales game I have ever touched. It has potential but I'm still very early in the game to say anything more about it. I'm hearing good things about Dragon Quest XI, I'll probably play it next.

As for Castlevanias, it's one of my favorite series and I've literally played every single one apart from Rebirth. True, many of them have the depth and additional stuff I'm looking for but that's a completely different genre.

 

[Ash]

I don't get it, "rather play"? Oni 4 is worth playing in addition to DMC and whatever else, it stands on its own. And has many more RPG systems than DMC, which I don't consider an ARPG. So you must think it is bad...that's fine. The story is kooky (but fun) and crit spam is a big wart on the game, so I can't hold it against you.

I consider Symphony of the Night to be J-ARPG. Metroidvania too, but it's basically an action RPG. Metroidvania is a sub-genre of ARPG. And if Souls can be ARPG so can Symphony.

Sadly I have nothing more to recommend in the JRPG realm. Not without disappointing you e.g I like Koudelka, the gameplay is OK, but it's not even remotely as multi-layered as 90s FF.
I too would like to know of prestigious gameplayfag JRPGs, so I'll let people talk.

 

[Arthandas]

I just remembered something - Fear & Hunger (I'm yet to play its sequel - Termina) - that's what I'm talking about. It's rough around the edges as it was made by just 2 guys I think, but it's full of secrets, hidden mechanics, alternate paths and locations, secret bosses and characters... It's not even close to being as big as a FF game but it has similar multi-layered depth and it was made with a lot of care.

 

[Reality]

I was expecting weirdo stuff like SaGa: scarlet grace and shadow hearts: covenant but it's just another disappointing thread

 

[Ash]

^Both were recommended to me when I made a similar thread a few years back. https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/help-me-find-a-jrpg.136249/

I ended up going with Shadow Hearts: Covenant. And...it is for sure a weirdo game. And the gameplay while there is just not as broad nor well-executed as I'd like.

 

[Machocruz]

FF12 pretty much ruined JRPGs, that aren't SMT or SaGa, for me for ever more. That game was the king of robust at the time. The player's guide was one of the thiccest ever produced, that's how much stuff was in the game. I've heard Xenoblade games are FF12-like, so I'm surprised those haven't been mentioned. Or did they drop the ball on that front?

I don't get it, rather play? Oni 4 is worth playing in addition to DMC and whatever else, it stands on its own. So you must think it is bad...that's fine. The story is kooky (but fun) and crit spam is a big wart on the game, so I can't hold it against you.

I consider Symphony of the Night to be J-ARPG. Metroidvania too, but it's basically an action RPG. If Souls can be ARPG so can Symphony.

Dudes, Dawn of Dreams was one of the greatest hack and slash games on PS2, which is saying a lot. Any enthusiast of that kind of action needs to check it out.

I'd say SoTN easily qualifies as an action-rpg. Genres are broad things to me, "metroidvania" is quite specific, but I digress. Faxanadu and Legacy of the Wizard were called "action-rpg" back in the day, and those are also side-scrolling, labyrinth games from Japan. SotN is on a totally different level of control and presentation, but otherwise in the same vein. These days I'd prefer labyrinths without the power-progression backtracking, but that's another digression

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

he player's guide was one of the thiccest ever produced, that's how much stuff was in the game. I've heard Xenoblade games are FF12-like, so I'm surprised those haven't been mentioned. Or did they drop the ball on that front?

In FF12 you could have your characters attack each other, or could use an oil item on enemies which would cause them to take more fire damage, etc. No such things happen in Xenoblade.

 

[Abu Antar]

Play Blue Dragon. It's Final Fantasy V-2 in anything but name.

Octopath Traveler I and 2 are two other games I would recommend.

There's also Dragon Quest XI.

 

[Arthandas]

Dudes, Dawn of Dreams was one of the greatest hack and slash games on PS2, which is saying a lot. Any enthusiast of that kind of action needs to check it out.

It's just my personal opinion that whatever Onimusha does, more modern games like Ninja Gaiden or Nioh do it better.

I've heard Xenoblade games are FF12-like, so I'm surprised those haven't been mentioned.

Yeah, great game xD

 

[Ash]

Play Blue Dragon. It's Final Fantasy V-2 in anything but name.

I am one of those few people that believe FFV is just about, ever so slightly better than 6, so you've got me hyped. Hope you're not lying to me, fucker.

Machocruz said:

FF12 pretty much ruined JRPGs, that aren't SMT or SaGa, for me for ever more. That game was the king of robust at the time.

Eh...

It was robust, yes, but I still prefer the gameplay of 90s FF.
Too damn grindy for its own good. Most of my gameplay memories are not fond nostalgia, but trauma: endless grinding enemies for loot and bounties in big open plains, or fighting late game bosses that go on and on forever.
Level design too bland. Acceptable, but definitely at times bland.
Adventure game elements during plot beats and puzzles took a step back.
Mini-games nowhere to be seen except some low effort events. Not that they are the best thing about 90s FF gameplay.
License board was good but I don't recall any secondary upgrade/character building systems of note. Gambit system was definitely cool, I suppose that can count.
It didn't take advantage of the third dimension very much (verticality). Which should be the entire point of switching to 3D, since art has to decline as a result.

And to me it also lost all the soul of previous FF games. Music was good but not as good. Art was OK. Story just was not gripping for me. Setting was alright but I found it quite bland.
Just felt like a shitty MMO in singleplayer format. Firmly of the declined but still good category of 10, 10-2, 12 PS2 era. I played it once, enjoyed it to some degree, but likely will never play again.

Dudes, Dawn of Dreams was one of the greatest hack and slash games on PS2, which is saying a lot. Any enthusiast of that kind of action needs to check it out.

It's just my personal opinion that whatever Onimusha does, more modern games like Ninja Gaiden or Nioh do it better.

Onimusha: DoD = 2006
Ninja Gaiden = 2004
DMC = 2001

So you may want to reevaluate that opinion. DoD was probably the final great hack n slash of the PS2 era.
Give it a try. DoD does some thing better, other things worse. Same as usual. Same as DMC does some things better than NG some things worse. Is one better than the other? Arguably, but they're all of a similar caliber of quality and worth playing.
Onimusha DoD seperates itself from the rest of onimusha series and the other PS2-era hack n slash with greater RPG system focus, multiple playable characters all with customization control, as well as moderate puzzle focus. The combat is largely very good, on par with the other hack n slash (except crit spam). People slept on this game and it's very unfortunate.

 

[Arthandas]

Onimusha: DoD = 2006
Ninja Gaiden = 2004
DMC = 2001

I was referring to Ninja Gaiden as a whole, which is more modern (Sigmas and Razor's Edge were made between 2007 and 2012).
It may have been the best hack n slash of the PS2 era, but to me Nioh (1 or 2) makes Onimusha as a series obsolete.

 

[Ash]

I gave up on Nioh half way through the first level (1 hour maybe) because it felt far too derivative of Souls, and worse than it. Yes, I did not follow my own advice and lessons here and did not give it enough time to flourish so my opinion on it is basically moot, but my point is I saw very little connection to DoD. What are you talking about? Machocruz what's this guy talking about? This game is like DoD? That's horse shit. DoD is a pretty unique game. It's not even particularly like the rest of the Onimusha games. I feel like you're judging DoD based on experience with say Onimusha 1, which is a rather different game. It'd be like judging 90s FF based on FF13 or 7Remake or 15, when they couldn't be any more different.

Now that i think about it, what I experienced with Nioh WAS somewhat like Onimusha 1. Which again, is very, very different to DoD.

 

[musouking]

I gave up on Nioh half way through the first level becuase it felt far too derivative of Souls

You mean the prologue? It's definely a Souls easter egg without showing Nioh's deep action system. The game starts at the third level when you meet with the first human-like boss.

That's why I made myself suffer through 8-10 hours of suikoden 2, or all of Chrono Trigger, despite never resonating with it from the start.

LOL, give Nioh a 10 hours try as you said. It's not a souls game.
BTW you convince me to give Onimusha: DoD a try. Edit: no translation, put on hold.

 

[Pots Talos]

The Great Gaias and Gjallarhorn.

 

[Arthandas]

I gave up on Nioh half way through the first level becuase it felt far too derivative of Souls

I completely disagree, it has a lot more common with Ninja Gaiden than DS, but just like everything is an RPG now, all tpp action games are now soulslikes...

 

[Arthandas]

The Great Gaias and Gjallarhorn.

Interesting... added to wishlist.

 

[Pots Talos]

The Great Gaias and Gjallarhorn.

Interesting... added to wishlist.

Once you've had your mind blown be sure to leave a steam review.

 

[Poseidon00]

The original Wild Arms for the PS1. Kick over a rock and you will find a secret boss. There are loads of em. I think the method to unlock Ragu Ragla’s dungeon was particularly cool. Some nice side things like a spell making system as well.

The Legend of Mana has tons of missable quests, NPCs, and merchants depending on its ubscure area placement system

Live a Live had a number of hidden scenes and bosses and is overall just a lot of fun