1eyedking Japanese roleplaying games are...

[Vaarna_Aarne]

There are good JRPGs out there, and there are bad ones, but don't act like western RPGs are this wonderful pillar of always excellent design and craft. For fuck's sake, this is the Codex, all we do these days is bitch about how modern cRPGs are shitty. 90% of everything is crap.

Except we also have to remember that there's even worse shit out there.

 

[mondblut]

Japanese Playing Game?

Japanese Pointless Garbage :D

Yes, they have very little to do with games and playing. The way we whites perceive these things, at least.

 

[DraQ]

Japanese Playless Game?

 

[AlaCarcuss]

The problem I guess is in the naming of the genre itself - J-RPG. They are not and never will be 'Role Playing Games' as we know them. I say we think up another name for them and leave it that - problem solved :D

JPG?

Japanese Playing Game?

But they're not Playing Games. They're Watch Cutscenes and Grind Programs. How about JT? Japanese... Thing?

Hehe, I guess you'd have to say they are Action Adventure games with stats and char progression. Kinda like the God of War, Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden series' only usually with a party and a manga cartoony art style. And, of course (usually) a psudo TB combat system that's played out on a seperate combat screen (again usually).

Whew! No, I guess they really are their own beast lol. Actually, Fallout 3 is a lot like a JRPG with a different art style and less linearity. And just as with JRPG's, as soon as I started thinking of it as a 'NOT RPG' and 'NOT Fallout', but an action adventure game, I actually started getting some enjoyment out of it. Without having to constantly remind myself of all it's CRPG shortcommings.

On the subject of hawt pre-pubesent girls depicted in these games. I have a brother who lived in Japan for several years and a cousin who still lives there. They both say that, yes, that is a Japanees man's idea of the 'perfect woman'. That is, a female that looks and sounds like a child only with fully developed sexual organs, which makes them fuckable. If a full grown woman wants to appear attractive/sexy to Japanees men, then that's how she dresses and acts - like a child/hooker. And regardlees of the 'Age of Consent' laws (they are just there to appease western sensibilities and almost never enforced), most Japanees girls loose their virginity at a very young age (12-13).

I had a Japanees/Australian girlfriend many years ago when I worked in a Japanees Restaurant. She told me, during one of those in bed, pre-sex talks, that she lost her viginity at 12 to a man in his mid 30's introduced to her by her father - and that wasn't unusual. It's a cultural thing I guess.

After all, wasn't Jerry Lee Lewis kicked out of England back in the 50's for having a 13 y.o. wife that was also his cousin? Looks like the red-necks of the deep south in the US are a completely different culture as well eh? (anyone remember Deliverance and Squealing like a Pig?) :shock:

 

[BehindTimes]

The problem I guess is in the naming of the genre itself - J-RPG. They are not and never will be 'Role Playing Games' as we know them. I say we think up another name for them and leave it that - problem solved :D

JPG?

Japanese Playing Game?

But they're not Playing Games. They're Watch Cutscenes and Grind Programs. How about JT? Japanese... Thing?

Hehe, I guess you'd have to say they are Action Adventure games with stats and char progression. Kinda like the God of War, Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden series' only usually with a party and a manga cartoony art style. And, of course (usually) a psudo TB combat system that's played out on a seperate combat screen (again usually).

Whew! No, I guess they really are their own beast lol. Actually, Fallout 3 is a lot like a JRPG with a different art style and less linearity. And just as with JRPG's, as soon as I started thinking of it as a 'NOT RPG' and 'NOT Fallout', but an action adventure game, I actually started getting some enjoyment out of it. Without having to constantly remind myself of all it's CRPG shortcommings.

Whereas Fallout can be compared to an FPS to an extent, JRPG's cannot be compared to Action Adventures. At least God of War, DMC, and Ninja Gaiden require a bit of skill and hand eye coordination. Most JRPG's can be beaten by purely pressing the action button.

I'll say this again. JRPGs are dungeon crawler-lites. Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, etc., have the gameplay of Wizardry, except simplified to the extent that they require no thought, skill, tactics, etc.

 

[1eyedking]

Japanese Pointless Garbage :D

Hear, hear!

 

[someone else]

And regardlees of the 'Age of Consent' laws (they are just there to appease western sensibilities and almost never enforced), most Japanees girls loose their virginity at a very young age (12-13).

Not according to our good friend Durex http://www.durex.com/cm/gss2005Content.asp?intQid=941. I do know that Japanese middle schoolers are more sexually liberal than their western ex-christian counterparts.
I've heard some pretty ridiculous things about Japan myself, much of it exaggerated. But some of the things I've read on the internet about my own country are outrageous as well.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

The problem I guess is in the naming of the genre itself - J-RPG. They are not and never will be 'Role Playing Games' as we know them. I say we think up another name for them and leave it that - problem solved :D

JPG?

Japanese Playing Game?

But they're not Playing Games. They're Watch Cutscenes and Grind Programs. How about JT? Japanese... Thing?

Hehe, I guess you'd have to say they are Action Adventure games with stats and char progression. Kinda like the God of War, Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden series' only usually with a party and a manga cartoony art style. And, of course (usually) a psudo TB combat system that's played out on a seperate combat screen (again usually).

Whew! No, I guess they really are their own beast lol. Actually, Fallout 3 is a lot like a JRPG with a different art style and less linearity. And just as with JRPG's, as soon as I started thinking of it as a 'NOT RPG' and 'NOT Fallout', but an action adventure game, I actually started getting some enjoyment out of it. Without having to constantly remind myself of all it's CRPG shortcommings.

Whereas Fallout can be compared to an FPS to an extent, JRPG's cannot be compared to Action Adventures. At least God of War, DMC, and Ninja Gaiden require a bit of skill and hand eye coordination. Most JRPG's can be beaten by purely pressing the action button.

I'll say this again. JRPGs are dungeon crawler-lites. Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, etc., have the gameplay of Wizardry, except simplified to the extent that they require no thought, skill, tactics, etc.

Yeah, which is why I gave up and called them their own beast. And some JRPG's actually have pretty good tactical combat. Some of the MegaTen series like Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga are really quite difficult and require quite a bit of thought - you will die quick if you just press the action button (if there was one).

Actually - if you're going to have a go at a JRPG, I'd definately recommend pretty much any of the Shin Megami Tensi series. They usually all feature pretty unique settings with a considerably darker tone and more mature themes and content than most other JRPG's which are generally targeted at a younger demographic. Persona 3 actually featured a combat mechanic that involved putting a gun to your head and blowing your brains out - WTF! :shock:

Digital Devil Sagas 1 & 2, for instance, make for a pretty engaging romp and feature a descent storyline. Still not RPG's as we know them - but fun none the less.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Japanese Playing Game?

Japanese Pointless Garbage :D

Yes, they have very little to do with games and playing. The way we whites perceive these things, at least.

Interestingly, the pretensions of such Japanese games are exactly that.

To quote the savegame pump in Barklet Shut Up And Jam Gaiden, "Videogames are such a resentful term. That's ridiculous Western thinking caused by all their FIFA World Cups and NASCAR racing, who dare mock the true art of the Japanese. The right term is vidcons, instruments of creating love, hate, fear, and sadness."

So atleast, these two worlds agree to disagree. They don't think they make videogames either. Which is why filmschool students like Hideo Kojima inflict their B-movie visions in the form of console videogames rather than actual feature films.

Though it seems that with Western penetration of the Japanese market, the Japanese are losing on their own ground. It's just not an equivocal thing. For a Japanese to take interest in western things, it is perfectly normal. For a Westerner to take interest in anime, manga, hentai, Metal Gear Solids, and Final Fantasies, he is a freak and a weaboo, in the eyes of all.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

Japanese Playing Game?

For a Westerner to take interest in anime, manga, hentai, Metal Gear Solids, and Final Fantasies, he is a freak and a weaboo, in the eyes of all.

Really? I guess the tens of millions of copies of the MGS and FF series they sell outside Japan still puts the buyers in the minority - so yeah, I suppose.....

Oh! by 'all' you mean the Codex! :D

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

MGS and FF are like sugar, they're only a gateway to the heavier stuff.

 

[almondblight]

I thought Pokemon and Earthbound were pretty good. Pokemon for actually having interesting combat and game mechanics, Earthbound for not taking itself seriously, not having random battles, having monsters run from you when you were much stronger than them, and having it be an automatic win against them in those cases as well. Also, you could name your ultimate attack, so if you want to "cock thrust" the other guy into oblivion, go ahead.

Chrono Trigger has some interesting mechanics, like a trial part where seemingly insignificant things you did at the start of the game come into play. FFV had an interesting job system. Both of those games ended up sucking too much for me to finish them.

I don't know, I think if you took out the tedious combat and the fact that the storylines usually go to shit halfway through (ok, I've only played like 6 JRPG's), they probably have about the same appeal as adventure "games". IE, you're not really doing anything (pixel hunting in adventure games), but you feel like you are.

Are there many japanese dungeon crawlers who utilises character skill in anything but combat, though? Trap & lock disarming, sneaking, diplomacy, etc?

Unlimites Saga has some (these are just a few):

Weaponsmith:
Effect: [Shop]: Increases the type of weapons you can make at Mythe's
workshop.

Diplomacy:
Effect: [Field]: Hit a O panel on the monster reel to make the
monster go away. When you hit a X panel nothing happens. When you hit a bomb
panel the monster will attack.

Monger:
Effect: [Shop]: Allows you to buy items at a reduced price.

Sharpeye:
Effect: [Field]: Lets you know whether there is a trap on a chest
and what type of trap it is. Also prevents the reel of the trap/lock on the
chest from being difficult.

Locksmith:
Effect: [Field]: Lets you unlock treasure chests and doors that are
locked.

Cave Guide:
Effect: [Field]: Shows you a complete view of a cave map.
Also makes it easier to find treasure.
Panel level difference: The higher the panel level, the wider the scope of the
area that you can see of the map.

Eavesdrop:
Effect: [Field]: Shows where beasts, wildlings, birds, insects and
undead are on the map.

 

[almondblight]

And regardlees of the 'Age of Consent' laws (they are just there to appease western sensibilities and almost never enforced), most Japanees girls loose their virginity at a very young age (12-13).

I had a Japanees/Australian girlfriend many years ago when I worked in a Japanees Restaurant. She told me, during one of those in bed, pre-sex talks, that she lost her viginity at 12 to a man in his mid 30's introduced to her by her father - and that wasn't unusual. It's a cultural thing I guess.

Guh. Reminds me of this interview I read:

http://www.jmate.com/interviews/article_75.html

Interviewer: You wrote down that you lost your virginity at 14, so you only did Japanese men for 4 years?

Sena: Yeah, with my friends" fathers and people like that, hehehehe. The older guys taught me alot, especially when it came to sex toys.

Interviewer: Ahahahaa. So how did you hook up with your friend"s fathers?

Sena: Well, my dad told me to go out with them. And uh, well, he"s my dad so I did.

Interviewer: Your dad is messed up.

Sena: Ahahha, yeah, definitely a crime.

So, uhhhh....this is common in Japan, for father's to whore out their daughters? Does anyone have any more info/articles on this?

 

[Hantama]

This is an interview with some porno-slut

Yes, youth is very important for many people here, but that doesn`t mean that everyone wants to fuck with 13 year olds. There are girls who prostitue themselves at that age, but the parents won`t know that. But that one is a very deep topic (and off-topic at that...), you will find prostitutes in that age in your country too btw, wherever that may be.
If you want to talk about japan, read about it, not on the internet (especially not forums or crap like waiwai), but in books (and I dont mean manga) or come here and see for yourself 8and dont just go to shibuya and akihabara... If you don`t know anything about it don`t talk about it. 90% of what everyone thinks he knows about japan is not true or exaggerated.

On-Topic: yeah, different genre. I mean you can`t compare the two.
But there are some very interesting games that have never get put of japan, that are kind of like Japanese WRPGs, like the mentioned Wizardry. They also have quite a lot of rogue-likes coming out, Shiren 2 came out not long ago I think.
There are many great JRPGs. Of course you don`t have to like them, but that doesn`t mean they are inferior.
Oh and Dragon Quest btw is just made that way, it`s all about the story, at least since 4, and, at least for me, a good part of the charm comes from the art. Its just that kind of series, no deep systems here.

 

[almondblight]

This is an interview with some porno-slut

Well then, I guess she deserved it!

 

[Krash]

Teh great Nippon is seriously fucked up. Even the voice-overs to English are a litany of insanity:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/user ... st=popular

 

[Prosthetic Brain]

I think the problem is that he played Dragon Quest, which was the very first JRPG back in the mid 80's. Well, actually there were a few loli touching games before that pioneered the genre, but obviously didn't make it outside of Japan or onto the Nintendo. JRPGs never change, and if they do have a few small, minor changes it's either because they are A) Final Fantasy or B) A different series. In other words, don't expect much because you're playing a game from 1986, man.

The only genre growth JRPGs offer is in the form of cutscenes. Of course, one could reasonably argue that it's better than the "advancements" we see in WRPGS such as the... ugh... breadcrumb trail and quest compass. Then again, WRPGS did have a point in time - the 90's - where the genre did make advancements, and JRPGS never had such a thing. Imagine if WRPGs never changed beyond the first three Wizardry games besides the obvious technical improvements. That's JRPGs for you.

... BUT there are a few good ones, and some of those are recent. Lost Odyssey had great potential but was weighed down by the massive amounts of "bore" it contained. Tales of Vesperia seems alright but I haven't decided if I can bring myself to accept it's hardcore cute anime look. I could mention a few oldies that I thought were good but I would probably be denounced as a witch.

I guess because this is my first post here I should probably say something about Torment and Arcanum being the greatest games of all time, looking forward to Age of Decadance, death to Bethesda, and all that jazz.

 

[poocolator]

Jewish Role-playing Game
OH shit

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Tales of Vesperia seems alright but I haven't decided if I can bring myself to accept it's hardcore cute anime look. I could mention a few oldies that I thought were good but I would probably be denounced as a witch.

Is it even remotely like Tales of Symphonia? Because ToS is like a crash-course on the reasons why JRPGs suck so much, as well as into designing an overall shitty and pretentious game.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

Tales of Vesperia seems alright but I haven't decided if I can bring myself to accept it's hardcore cute anime look. I could mention a few oldies that I thought were good but I would probably be denounced as a witch.

Is it even remotely like Tales of Symphonia? Because ToS is like a crash-course on the reasons why JRPGs suck so much, as well as into designing an overall shitty and pretentious game.

Apparently it doesn't take itself anywhere near as seriously, and the main character is actually an adult (and not just "pretend mature", according to a friend). Combat is apparently improved and so on too, but much of the praise seems to come from it being a far more light-hearted and less melodramatic/pretentious game.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Tales of Vesperia seems alright but I haven't decided if I can bring myself to accept it's hardcore cute anime look. I could mention a few oldies that I thought were good but I would probably be denounced as a witch.

Is it even remotely like Tales of Symphonia? Because ToS is like a crash-course on the reasons why JRPGs suck so much, as well as into designing an overall shitty and pretentious game.

Apparently it doesn't take itself anywhere near as seriously, and the main character is actually an adult (and not just "pretend mature", according to a friend). Combat is apparently improved and so on too, but much of the praise seems to come from it being a far more light-hearted and less melodramatic/pretentious game.

You have been LIED to! :twisted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZb7BUFzMUg&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02gX6KgZ_LU&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ij61OWbi3E&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbStmZXTe1U&feature=channel_page

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

I... meant Vesperia. As in, it doesn't take itself as seriously as Symphonia did.

 

[theverybigslayer]

Shin Megami Tensei II (SNES)

My party is attacked by 4 Chirei Shudamas!
The battles are very tactical, I have to use only the default attack button and I win easily every battle in very short time. But sometimes there is a difficult battle when I have to use the default attack button very many times. That's a little boring

 

[BearBomber]

JRPG FOLKS:

Yes, this is real RPG, from Japan. I've heard it kick ass.

 

[Kavax]

JRPG FOLKS:

Yes, this is real RPG, from Japan. I've heard it kick ass.

Let's Play thread. Now.