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Dragon Age Review by CDA - scans

Suchy

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The interetsing bits are that the combat is actually challenging and tactical, and there's a lot of tweaking stats. You can fuck up your character build and get your ass served.
I skipped the story parts, we all know it's dark, gritty, mature and has hot buttsex doggy style.
 

Rhalle

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Multi-headed Cow said:
Is that a giant fatty tit tentacle beast in one of the pictures? Because it looks like a tower of breasts with tentacles, and I don't have enough faith in Dragon Age to believe it isn't what it looks like.

It's called a "Brood Mother". Not sure what exactly it is the mother of, however.

Sounds like the reviewer was expecting The New Shit but didn't get it.

Let's hope BW didn't get an advanced copy of this reveiw and decide to nerf the fuck out of everything.
 

MetalCraze

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You can nerf something out of 3 possible classes that have identical skills down to pickpocketing? You people are too optimistic about Mass Effect in middle ages.
 

Trash

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MetalCraze said:
You can nerf something out of 3 possible classes that have identical skills down to pickpocketing? You people are too optimistic about Mass Effect in middle ages.

Concerning games you've since long became a parody of yourself. Aka shit.
 

ever

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piydek said:
I'd much rather do those things myself than let the AI (no matter how adequate or inadequate it is) do it. Control over such things is vital to handling battles in different ways.

You are controlling it.

Its like a sequencer spell, only I guess the magic isn't stored but wasted.
 

Ogg

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MetalCraze said:
dragonfk said:
The reviewer was very impressed by tactical planning. It's a feature that allows you to plan for every character what they should do given the adequate conditions are met. For an example: your mage can throw a fireball when you encounter more than three enemies.

Woah - you mean you actually have to script the obvious shit yourself that always was a part of an adequate AI before? I'm impressed too.
The idea actually comes from the latest Final fantasy. Yep, that'ss a huge inspiration for Bioware it seems.
 

ever

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MetalCraze said:
Woah - you mean you actually have to script the obvious shit yourself that always was a part of an adequate AI before? I'm impressed too.
I can't recall a single game with genuinely good A.I other than like grandmaster chess or some war game or something like that.

And I definitely can't think of any turnbased or semi-turnbased (real time with pause, simultaneous turns etc.) game where AI control over NPCs is preferred
 

Trash

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Ogg said:
MetalCraze said:
dragonfk said:
The reviewer was very impressed by tactical planning. It's a feature that allows you to plan for every character what they should do given the adequate conditions are met. For an example: your mage can throw a fireball when you encounter more than three enemies.

Woah - you mean you actually have to script the obvious shit yourself that always was a part of an adequate AI before? I'm impressed too.
The idea actually comes from the latest Final fantasy. Yep, that'ss a huge inspiration for Bioware it seems.

You bunch of fucking tools. NWN, BG 1 and 2 and the Icewind Dale games all had scripts which the player could edit. This is just standard Bioware fare. Go find something substantial to bitch about, this is weak.
 

ever

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Trash, you don't get it. Bioware makes good games that OTHER people enjoy.

Scripts and sequencer spells existing prior to dragon age is besides the point.
 

Pegultagol

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Agree on the user input requisite any playable party battle tactics in rtwp sequences. Although some interface amenities like pause conditions could help in the overall control.

I wonder if the highly touted group mechanics or interactions or even comptente AI in spell uses contribute to the general difficulty, or at least some varied gameplay options.

And how much time do you think they could possibly have spent on the game evaulation? Surely not enough to arrive at a conclusion to suggest the 'branching storyline' is any deeper or consequential than the origin prologues from the outset.
 

Darth Roxor

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Incoming brief translation (my commentary in italics):

"The first impressions after viewing the intro are so-so, it reminds of titles from a few years ago, and not an AD 2009 blockbuster. Times when RPGs could look worse than other genres are long forgotten (in other words, not enough bloom :smug:), but fortunately menus look a lot better, the music is also great, which makes character creation in a much better atmosphere.

There are three character classes: warrior, mage, rogue, and each of them offers several paths of character progression, for example, a warrior can specialise in ranged, two-handed, one-handed weaponry + shield or dual wielding. Each ability has three branches with four talents each. You don't have to limit yourself to only one ability, all you need to remember is that to unlock the second (of a total four) level of an ability, you have to learn the first one (Well, who would have thought about that?) but some also have secondary requirements, like a certain level or high enough other skill.

Specialization gives access to many powerful feats, so investing in many abilities is not worth it, and specing has no side-effects, since you'll have four party-members almost all the time, so finding specialists for all possible situations isn't hard (there goes interesting party/character creation, then). The only exception is the main character, because only he can talk with NPCs, so it's well-worth to invest in dialogue skills.

The magic system is similar, but with one small detail - the number of possibilities. Even without prestige classes, there are four specialisations with 16 spells each (four branches with four spells each). In addition, depending on how you allocate your skill points, you can create a cleric like-mage or one of the three 'combat' versions, specialising in elements, spirit and entropy. Moreover, I think that high-end spells give more advantage than maxed skills of the other two classes, so strict specing is a lot more recommended.

Rogues are not typical thieves from other RPGs, because every class can learn how to spot/use traps, pick pockets or use poisons. They do however possess a different combat skill tree (based on 'tricks' like stunning), they can also turn invisible and pick locks. They also have skill trees with dual-wielding and ranged weaponry, the same as the warrior, so thanks to that they are useful both in combat and in trap-filled dungeons.

As for prestige classes, you can choose a max of two from four available for each character, and it gives the possibility of leveling up four additional abilities - but to learn them, you have to allocate skill points that you use to upgrade normal skills/spells. Is it worth it? Well, you can pass, and they are mostly available in the later, mainly optional, parts of the game.

There's one more thing to choose when creating your character - your background. Dwarves can be nobles and commonfolk, elves are tree-hugging rebels or inhabitants of elven ghettoes (JUDEN). Only humans have no choice - they always start as nobles, unless they choose to be mages (only humans and elves), which makes them start in one of the Circles of Magic. Depending on your choice, you'll get unique first two hours of the game. Starting all of them is kind of a good idea, since it gives a good view of the social and political situations of various places, like dwarven politics or human love for the 'first night' tradition, especiall with female elves (durr hurr, mature).

The 18+ rating is not because of the cybersex0r (although there are brothels and romances with party members, but that's mostly light erotics like in ME). DA is advertised as dark fantasy, and that's what it really is. While you can meet good people and fight evil all the time, it doesn't change the fact that the world is far from perfect. On the other hand, playing an evil or good character gives many possibilities which adds to replayability.

The combat is largely tactical. It's not ME, where twitch-combat was dominant. Here it's completely different, and you'll have to think a lot, even at the lowest difficulty. There's an active pause, and you can take control of each party member as you please. The AI can be disabled, if you don't want your characters to do anything you don't want them to do. There is also a largely AI-based way to fight. Each character has a number of 'tactical slots' (depending on, among other things, current level and chosen talents), through which you can specifically set their behaviour in combat. The formula is simple - you choose a condition that needs to appear, and the effect that will be done by the character. Thanks to that, you can script healing, buffing, helping and attacking. Things like 'use fireball when there are more than 3 enemies', 'help the main character', 'turn the strongest enemy into stone' or 'coup-de-grace the lowest threat' can make the fights fully automatic. It needs a lot of practice, but the effects are worth it, because the party works as well as with the use of pause, but you don't have to hand-hold each character.

Skills and spells need a certain amount of energy and mana to use. HP/mana regenerate during fights very slowly (but uberfast after combat, which eliminates the problem of resting (sigh) ), but you can speed it up with various unguents and potions, skills, gear and spells. Regular attacks are the basis, special attacks are only a neat addition, that can turn the odds into your favour, but they need good management, or you may run out of mana for the strongest enemy, and that usually means reloading the game (oh my).

There are four difficulty levels, and even the 'normal' (second) one is rather demanding. Fortunately, you can change it at any given time. Unfortunately, even if you have problems with fights on the lowest difficulty, then, well, tough luck. There is also no attribute re-specing like in MMOs, so if you're not satisfied with your character build, you're toast. I'd like to believe this is temporary, because the current system may prove frustrating for many players (Oh yeah? Well, fuck you). In theory, there are many people you can take into the party, but the main hero is only one, and the need of running around with a useless character is... well... Not to mention that re-starting the game isn't an easy decision, especially when you've played for 20 hours already...

The devs claim that DA takes 120 hours to complete with all the sidequests. Even if they're exaggerating, it would appear that not too much - after 26 hours and getting to something that looks like a final boss fight, it came out that I completed only 34% of the game, while exploring 86% of the map. Plus, I spent a lot more time with it, since I had a lot of reloadings caused by deaths.

The sidequests are a lot better than in ME (you can, for example, support mercenaries, or try to change the situation of renegade mages by aiding them), and there's a lot more of them - the main story is about 30-40% of the game.

Applause is needed for the mass of dialogues (all of them voiced) and interesting characters, but to be honest, the game looks a lot older than it really is. While the maps are big, and there are no problems with loading times, the world has seen a lot better-looking rpgs before, and while graphics aren't the most important, it counts for a lot too. On the other hand, you have to appreciate the scope of the game and the hundreds of possibilities it gives. You could also nitpick that it has no multiplayer or the editor will come out later, but what we have here is one of the most interesting RPGs of the last years. Not perfect, and not too beginner-friendly, and generally rather old-school, but very satisfying in the end."




Well, so much for a 'brief' translation, but I left out the various tables with additional info.
 

Rhalle

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2/3 of the game is not part of the main questline? That's interesting, too.
 

Trash

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Not perfect, and not too beginner-friendly, and generally rather old-school, but very satisfying in the end.

This I like. Sounds from the review that Bioware indeed did their best to come up with a new BG. If the storyline isn't too hamfisted I'm rather tempted to buy this.
 

MetalCraze

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Only 64 spells? Even mages can pickpocket, find and disable traps which makes rogues totally useless? Only 3 classes? HP and mana regenerate during combat? Prestige classes give only a pair of abilities? World around you is not perfect and even though you still fight generic evil this means that DA is a dark fantasy - just like KotOR or JE world amirite? And lots of useless reviewer points like "zomg there is no MMO respecing in this game? Can you image that?" A combat is tactical but reviewer never bothers to explain why?

Wow what a deep, complex and totally old-school game.

Trash said:
You bunch of fucking tools. NWN, BG 1 and 2 and the Icewind Dale games all had scripts which the player could edit. This is just standard Bioware fare.

If you played those games you would know that when you select "attacking mage" it will do such stuff as casting fireballs at bunches of enemies on itself together with tons of other stuff without micromanaging obvious shit

Trash said:
MetalCraze said:
You can nerf something out of 3 possible classes that have identical skills down to pickpocketing? You people are too optimistic about Mass Effect in middle ages.

Concerning games you've since long became a parody of yourself. Aka shit.
Yes be butthurt and continue to eat delicious Bioware shit of a bad quality.
 

bezimek

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@ WhiskeyWolf

No CDP* but CDA**

* CD- Projekt

** CD-Action

btw. CDA post very,very,very ... poor reviews of rpg games ( vide: Fallout 3 -11/10 and MassEffect 12/10 ) but DA:O as oldschool game is plus for me !
 
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dragonfk said:
The reviewer was very impressed by tactical planning. It's a feature that allows you to plan for every character what they should do given the adequate conditions are met. For an example: your mage can throw a fireball when you encounter more than three enemies.

kinda like FFXII with it's gambits


Ogg said:
The idea actually comes from the latest Final fantasy. Yep, that'ss a huge inspiration for Bioware it seems.

Which are really just "if X condition is met, do Y" commands. Nothing new, as Trash said

At least in ff they were optional (turn them off for each character on party menu, so you can give them manual commands), and were useful for non challenging things you'd do yourself anyway, like using health potions on characters below 30% hp after a battle is over.
 

treave

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Clockwork Knight said:
dragonfk said:
The reviewer was very impressed by tactical planning. It's a feature that allows you to plan for every character what they should do given the adequate conditions are met. For an example: your mage can throw a fireball when you encounter more than three enemies.

kinda like FFXII with it's gambits

which are really just "if X condition is met, do Y" commands, nothing new

It's just a more user-friendly way of AI scripting. Now they have an actual interface so you don't need to muck about editing with the game files anymore. I wonder if we have to unlock additional tactical options or if everything is fully customizable from the start.

I don't want it to be like that tedious Gambit system where I have to grind for like 50 hours until I manage to be able to order my characters to automatically attack weak-points. Might as well finish the game myself manually with that same amount of time.
 

Suchy

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skyway said:
Even mages can pickpocket, find and disable traps which makes rogues totally useless? Only 3 classes? HP and mana regenerate during combat?
The same set of skills for all classes is actually a good thing. I'm tired of the moronic "mages can't wear armor because!" out of DnD, making its way to most games. Yeah you can train your mage lockpicking (why not, by default a mage can't be manually skilled?), but on the cost of his spellcasting abilities. It worked pretty good in Betrayal at Krondor and it can work here as well.
I agree on HP/mana regeneration though. It's shit.
 
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I agree on HP/mana regeneration though. It's shit.

It says it's slow during combat (how slow, though?), and really fast after combat (which doesn't matter if the fights are balanced for full health characters....but that removes the element of walking around with everyone hurt, trying to find a safe place).
 

Trash

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If you played those games you would know that when you select "attacking mage" it will do such stuff as casting fireballs at bunches of enemies on itself together with tons of other stuff without micromanaging obvious shit

Ahahahaha. No. And about that little "if you played those games you would know" jab, don't be a twat. You also seem to attack the game strongly with arguments that seem to solely rest on the fact that the review (or the translation) did not adequately explain several things. You throwing that hissy fit only strenghtens the notion that you're bitching for bitching's sake. You're a parody.

Rhalle said:
2/3 of the game is not part of the main questline? That's interesting, too.

Or he only played a third of the game before writing the review. The translation isn't too clear about this.
 
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Darth Roxor said:
There is also no attribute re-specing like in MMOs, so if you're not satisfied with your character build, you're toast. I'd like to believe this is temporary, because the current system may prove frustrating for many players (Oh yeah? Well, fuck you).

Yeah, what DR said. Fuck them with a rusty fork.


If they don't like the current system, they can go play an MMO, and grind their hearts away while blocking gold spammers and people whining about PKers. It's an RPG, not an MMORPG. It's bad enough developers keep trying to introduce MMO mechanics into mainstream RPGs, without these guys cheering them on in a roundabout way.


It's part of the experience for someone to start off and accidentally make a couple stupid builds. Only to realize a few hours in 'this guy is totally useless', and start all over with foreknowledge.
 

Moray

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For the sake of those of us that only speak (and read/write) English, thanks for the translation, Roxor.

A few points in all of that do seem appealing - the difficulty and supposed "tactical" combat being the most noteworthy. Granted, it still remains to be seen just how difficult and complex the combat is in the game, but if the "normal" difficulty is allegedly actually challenging, given that this is just perhaps some journalist 'tard, the remaining difficulties above normal might be interesting. Secondly, while I'm sure the claim of 120 hours is exaggerated as all fuck, I'm hopeful this game will be more than some easily blown through 30 minute kick.

However, a number of points mentioned are rather cringe-worthy: for instance, regenerating health/mana. Regenerating health? C'mon, now. These aren't fucking Marvel superheroes, are they? It does quite honestly make me skeptical of the difficulty when you can simply stop after any given altercation to wait for your characters to regen to tip-top shape. Reminds me of NWN2's "rest anywhere, any time" BS. And lawdy did I hate that.

All in all, I don't expect much from Bioware. I'll be content with a reasonably mediocre game - and that's if I even bother to purchase this, rather than, oh... remove it from an inventory, let's say.
 

Trash

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Genma:TheDestroyer said:
It's part of the experience for someone to start off and accidentally make a couple stupid builds. Only to realize a few hours in 'this guy is totally useless', and start all over with foreknowledge.

Sounds quite hard to make a build that would suck ass in this game. Especially when your party members are pre-build ones. Actually the whole lets start again because my party sucks bussiness went out of style shortly after the SSI Goldbox games. Those were unforgiving enough to make you get stuck for not adding some obscure skill to your party. I still fondly remember losing my entire party to alien parasites in Buck Rogers because noone was proficient enough to use the auto doctor. :D

Reminds me of NWN2's "rest anywhere, any time" BS. And lawdy did I hate that.

I loathe that in any rpg. Why developers don't look at games like Darklands or the Realms of Arkania to see how it can also be done is beyond me.
 

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