Your Favorite "Exploration Mode" For RPGs? Though

[tardtastic]

There's quite a range in "styles", and I'm just curious which codexers like best and why that is - and also their opinions of the various systems, whether they hold them in high regard or low. So here's the poll to establish firstly which system is favored here, but I'd also like to see this thread provide a discussion on the pros and cons of the various modes, or even ideas for new ones.

I'd ask you, please, to cast your votes and offer your input on the basis of the view system alone -- not the games that took advantage of them. So for example, you could hate Oblivion (imagine!), but still vote for and support first-person 3d, if you believed that to have the greatest potential for RPGs. Of course, however, you may feel free to refer to games as you state your opinion on various views. The point is - don't cast your vote on the basis of your favorite game's view alone.

I've also included a few types of views that aren't (commonly) seen in RPG's, so if you think that they've great potential, they are available for voting and comment.

Personally, I'm quite fond of the Fable/KOTOR/MMORPG style, but I greatly dislike how much time is spent treading over the same routes or areas again and again, just to reach particular NPCs or entrances/exits. Additionally, I prefer hand-drawn illustration over purely 3d graphics - and I can't really see how they would possibly work in a system such as Fable or KOTOR's. So I'm in a weird position in that I kind of dig the MMORPG style the most, but it simply can't be done with hand-drawn illustration as far as I can figure, so I'm compelled to fall back upon simpler/older systems -- principally, 3/4.
And the thing I just don't like much about 3/4 is that it turns into a bit of pixel-hunting when you get down to interacting with anything represented by a small graphic -- as games like that invariably do.

So - those are my thoughts for now. I'd like to hear what others think, if you don't mind.

 

[Jormungandr]

I enjoy the first-person, although I couldn't care less whether it was 3D or sprited. When I play an RPG, I prefer to play through the eyes of my character and rarely leave them; I do not play my character, I am my character, and first-person perspective helps in that.

With any 3rd person perspective, I always get the feel of "OK, these are my people" or "That is my person" but I myself am not any of them, I just control them; they are distanced from me. They are almost likened to mere units on the battlefield, although I clearly care for them more than those of some RTS game. I like to feel closer to my character than that.

 

[Human Shield]

The problem is 3D rendering view range breaks any character based view range you want. The same happens with darkness, top-down view can provide areas of light and dark (where you can't see enemies), first-person is just annoying with flashlight or torch looking at darkness. First-person needs to separate terrain view from seeing enemies (like a fog of war) but then tards would complain of enemies appearing.

 

[Redeye]

When I read the thread title I thought this thread would be about our approach to playing the game- dive in RP talkie , number crunching chess master, silent tourist, etc.

So I'm going to answer the question I thought you were asking:

My favorite Exploration Mode is "Try To Break The Game", or at least Try To Find A Way To Get Off The Rails.

I spend a lot of time trying to find some sploit to get past an arbitrary barrier, even if it means using a cheat code or screwing up quests/etc.

This is not necessarily a violation of RP immersion- I generally try to break the game only in ways that make sense relative to the internal reality of the game.

Then I might go back and just break shit for the hell of it.

Example:
Teleport codes/chapter/AREA jumps in BG/BG2.

Also, in BG2 I thought it was funny how you could just have Cernd cast Pixie Dust then waltz right across the Druid Map.

Scripts interfered, though.

Not a sploit, but I just love fucking shit up with invisibility.

I hate it when invis is nerfed. Like you can't just sneak by and climb over a fence.

And the guy with the key is unpickpocketable.

Especially when the key isn't even a key, just a trigger.

I'd love to see an RPG that uses something like the Commandos engine with better controls. Think of how fun thievery would be!

Oh, as far as the poll is concerned I'll go with 3/4.

Here's a picture of some isometric graph paper. (Combine with blacklight ink and enjoy.)

 

[tardtastic]

huh?whywouldyouwriteareplytoathreadthatdoesntexistthatmakesnosenseimeanwhygoofftopiclikethatwhenthethreadhasnothingtodowithitimeanwhynotjuststartyourownthreadaboutitifyoureallywantedtotalkaboutitthatmuchimeannooffensebutnobodycaresaboutwhatyouresayingbecausethethreadjustisntaboutthatwhywouldntyoujustinsteadgoohwhoopsimadeamistakewellletsanswertherealquestioninsteadnoyoumadethedecision-thinkaboutthisnow-toreplytoathreadthatdoesnotexistimeanhowmuchfreetimedoyouhavetokillandhowmuchdoyoufeellikehearingyourselftalkthatyouwoulddosomethinglikethatitjustmakesnosensetome
Oh, cool. I tried to "break shit for the hell of it" in Oblivion, but no matter from what height you drop a plate or mug, it will NOT shatter. i hated that so much.

 

[Zomg]

First person, 3D free camera. I don't really like exploration-of-space play all that much, but if it's there I'll take it in that form. Converting a lot of 2D images from many different vantage points into a 3D map in my head is a crude kind of quasi-fun activity. My other option would be menu-driven like KoDP or the non-overland parts of Darklands, which strips the concept of exploration down to a hardened core of interest.

Most bird's eye or iso exploration is just lawnmowing fog of war or similar with nothing at all interesting involved, pixel hunting, or even worse, bird's eye view mazes that would be more at home on the back of a kid's menu at Olive Garden. There is nothing in the world as tedious as the damn gehenna maps in Nethack. Fixed step 3D like Gold Box games or Eye of the Beholder is dull as dishwater and unavoidably samey. Over-the-shoulder 3D involves taking up a big chunk of the screen with the same person's back for 20 hours - fuck that. The exception would be for a platformer so I can see where I'm jumping, but I like platforming even less than other kinds of exploration. Sidescrolling/vertical scrolling exploration, like Metroid I guess, is kind of interesting, but I haven't played anything like that in a long assed time and I can't remember how they struck me. Scene-specific cameras like pre-3D adventure games and stuff like Resident Evil leads to each screen being a distinct entity, which is a bit cutesy and compartmentalized, but I haven't played one of those in a long time either.

There's also IF exploration, which usually uses the NSEW convention to move between discrete cells, which is sort of like the scene specific camera.

 

[Jaesun]

It entirely depends upon the game. There is no 1 true answer.

 

[ixg]

I prefer 3/4ths or 'isometric'. Probably for the opposite reason to those who like first person, in that I prefer to direct a character, not be the character. That and I like the larger view.
As a second choice, I'd probably go with over-the-shoulder.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

I care less about the method than the content of which to explore. I'm not a huge fa of first-person exploration, but Ultima Underworld, Bloodlines, and Morrowind had enough content to keep it fun and enjoyable. And while I adore the isometric perspective, I can't say I'm too fond of a lot of Arcanum's "exploring" (oh look....monsters guarding a chest...wowee!). Though certain methods are a bit less conducive to ease of exploration, such as the Neverwinter Nights approach, as they show very little terrain or are cumbersome to control like a first person interface (you can't one hand it). I suppose towards this end I prefer the 3/4 isometric approach for the ease of exploration and lack of required input to explore. And a tab highlight command a la Shadows of Amn solves the pixel hunts as well.

 

[JarlFrank]

3rd person 3D is my favourite, closely followed by 3/4 isometric view and menu-and-pictures driven like KoDP.

 

[MetalCraze]

I prefer 3/4 view because of the same reason ixg stated. Probably because it feels more like table-top game (if you can use such definition in this case) and first person is not suitable for rpgs unless it's an action rpg. But even in Bloodlines first person was pretty fucked up, so I didn't use any ranged weapon there. First person camera is annoyed me in Menzzoberanzan and Might and Magic as well.

Neverwinter Nights, whatever the heck its system may be called.

3d top-down

 

[The Dude]

1st person or 3/4 with lots of verbose descriptions of things.

What counts for me when exploring is IMMERSHUN, so fuck the hivemind.

1st person is excellent for this and, if the art is good, does an excellent job of conveying the world and all it's little details.

3/4 with lots of descriptions does an equally impressive job, 3/4 WITHOUT lots of text describing the features of the world just sucks ass for exploration

 

[Bluebottle]

In theory I have a preference for 1st person. However the switch to FP has such an impact on so many gameplay mechaincs (especially with regard to RPGs) and worlds are so rarely designed with a mind to make exploration interesting, the trade off is rarely, if ever, worth it.

 

[Luhh]

Best for exploration?

Over the shoulder beats every other hands down. But it's only suitable for single PC RPGs, not party based.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

Generally, first-person 3D. Morrowind was my first real RPG, and the number of hours I spent on it has one or two zeroes at the end more than it should, so I guess it probably soiled me... but, generally, iso etc just can't immerse me in the game. It's not a huge problem, I'll still play a good isometric game, but I do enjoy them a bit less for the perspective, better for gameplay as it may be... and should I stop playing for a week or so for whatever reason, I really struggle to bring myself to load it up again.

 

[Raapys]

The best RPGs I've played have all been 3/4 isometric, but in general I find that I can play just about any style( although some styles, like NWN2's, takes a few hours to get used to ).

The problem is, like someone else mentioned, that a switch of views usually brings with it different gameplay mechanics, and the switch is often done for a reason; appeal to a bigger audience, fit better for consoles, more action, etc. So while I believe it's perfectly possible to make a great RPG in any of the view modes, the attention of the developers often change more towards graphics and action and away from the 'character' when doing, for instance, a first person RPG.

 

[Morbus]

I love NWN system. NWN2 camera sucks.

 

[thesheeep]

Kotor-system for me...

 

[Jasede]

Nomen est omen?

 

[Cassidy]

3D Isometric with zoom because there is much of "First Person" in the RPG acronym as there is in the FPS acronym.

And when I see a First Person view, I tend to have an expectation that my FPS skills will matter more than stats, there is a reason why it became so common for action games, and in the "golden age" of CRPGs very few used first person view. LARP is what a first person RPG resembles, and that.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

Viewpoint doesn't matter to me. If I had to pick one, I'd say KOTOR. Oh, and OP, you do realize Legend of Zelda isn't an RPG, right? (Zelda II is sort of an exception)

 

[Slylandro]

Top-Down Bird's Eye, a la early JRPGs and Ultimas, Avernum, Legend of Zeldas for NES/Gameboys

Avernum is isometric. I think you're thinking of Exile.

I don't have any particular preference, I think it depends on what the game has to offer. Jade Empire could never have been top-down. I also shudder to imagine what Darklands would look like NWN style. The viewpoint(s) should reflect the content and style of the game. It's not a coincidence that most action RPGs are first person or 3rd person, for example.

 

[cutterjohn]

You forgot to specifiy whether or not you mean party based or single char based!

Single char:
First person all the way!

Part based:
Isometric/First person(wiz8) turn based

 

[kingcomrade]

I was tempted to go text and illustrations but it's just not as flexible when it comes to interactivity as the 3/4 camera style.