Wizards

[Whisper]

Wizards in PoE on high level are worth it?

Thinking about making one as lead character. On other hand, there are no rogue NPCs (so who would do traps and locks?) so maybe choose rogue?

 

[Cyberarmy]

Rogue has huge single target damage, my dwarf sneak attacking for 100+ damage even without maxed might (left it at 16 and spend some on Int for dialog purposes)
Wizard is probably the least interesting class for me, anything they can do a cipher/druid can do much better. Cipher has much better C&C and no need to rest except healing while druid mass killing with safe aoe with a good "oh shit!" button. If you really want a caster class go for those 2 instead.

 

[Jarpie]

In most games wizards are the worst class in lower levels, the wizards become intersting in BG1/2 from level 8 or 9 onwards, same with NWN. Looks like PoE fell into this as well.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Nah, they got boringer (?) on higher levels. Ciphers and druids are much more entertaining.
Not saying its a useless class btw starting a fight with a fireball(or similar spell) from sneak mode is cool but still...

 

[Kaldurenik]

At first i would call the wizard class weak but thats not true either. Sure a cipher, Druid is better overall. But the good thing with the wizard class is their ability to be flexible. However its not the "classic" type of wizard. Its more like a utility / CC class. Slicken spell is most likely the best level 1 ability / spell in the game. However for some reason the enemy LOVE to target wizards i have no idea if the AI is made that way. But... Wizards will always get targeted by ranged attacks the moment he cast any kind of ability. Meaning that you can get killed almost instantly depending on the encounter.

 

[Wulfstand]

Having a Wizard as my PC/party leader (in the case of the IWD games) was my favorite pick when it came to IE games, 'specially Shadows of Amn, but in PoE Wizards aren't really that compelling a class, I think. Like some posters above me have said, whatever he does other classes can do better, then again with a smart build you still can have a good time with him (as most of your companions have fucking terrible stats), so I guess it's really a matter of taste, deep down there isn't no 'right' or 'wrong' way to play the game.
Make sure to put some points into your Resolve for banter, especially with enchanted items. (the most useful, albeit expensive way to grab extra points into stats, as you don't get stat points while leveling up)

 

[Nikaido]

In most games wizards are the worst class in lower levels, the wizards become intersting in BG1/2 from level 8 or 9 onwards, same with NWN. Looks like PoE fell into this as well.

Worst? Wizard crowd control, monster summoning etc in BG1 were all game changers. It's only the worst class if you were only thinking in terms of how much damage a class contributes, but there's more to a well built party than that.
For IE games, the worst classes are easily bards and rogues. Rogues are somewhat necessary for all the trap stuff but their contribution to combat is bad.

I'd agree that wizard is pretty bad in a bad game like NWN because NWN uses a ruleset made for adventuring parties in a game where you're only controlling one character.. cue the low level wizard casting his few damage spells and resting every 5 seconds.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I use spells with my Wizard to make him appear useful but in truth he gets outshined by the vastle superior Druid in my party. Even my Priest has better buffs / debuffs and damage spells lol. The Wizard isn't terrible, just made redundant by the other classes. I could downsize my Party from 6 people to 5 (removing the Wizard) and nothing would change. Now that I think about it, I might just hire a new NPC Ranger and set him on auto shoot duty.

 

[Ellef]

I don't know. With proper positioning fan of flames can melt every single enemy for huge damage, not to mention slicken etc. I'd probably convert all my spell levels to level one spells if I could.

 

[LizardWizard]

I don't know. With proper positioning fan of flames can melt every single enemy for huge damage, not to mention slicken etc. I'd probably convert all my spell levels to level one spells if I could.

By the time you get into the position for FoF a cipher could have casted two mind blades for probably x3 the damage.

Bonus: and won't be useless next fight

 

[hiver]

It seems to me that the way it is designed practically makes you go for a fighter-mage build.

taking defensive spells instead of offensive ones through the start.

 

[Hobo Elf]

And the Chanter would still be the superior Warrior-Mage class.

 

[hiver]

A chanter? You surely mean a Cipher.

I know but im not concerned with getting teh best build of all.

Workable is enough for non-asperger players.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I have not touched the Cipher yet but I do not doubt your words. Just saying that a Chanter is a better Warrior-Mage than the Wizard. Chants don't get crippled by armor so you can go nuts with your Chanters gear. Being able to "cast" harmful effects or AoE dots while still fighting in melee is pretty awesome.

 

[LizardWizard]

They need minor contingencies/sequencers. Nothing crazy

I have not touched the Cipher yet but I do not doubt your words. Just saying that a Chanter is a better Warrior-Mage than the Wizard. Chants don't get crippled by armor so you can go nuts with your Chanters gear. Being able to "cast" harmful effects or AoE dots while still fighting in melee is pretty awesome.

Chanters are great for casting with items/scrolls especially. Got shit else to do.

 

[hiver]

Hobo Elf

It is, but as far as ive seen from Kana, he only gets three spells and chanting to get them lasts too long through the beginning of the game. lvl 5 now.

Still, a fighter mage should be doable. You dont need huge AoEs anyway in this game since all spaces you do combat in are relatively small and other classes do much better in that department anyway.

On the whole, yes, the wizards are seriously fucked up in this game. Especially when compared to BG2 as a high point of this kind of design.

 

[Gord]

The problem with a fighter mage would probably be that he is too fragile to really work.
He has a lot of self-buffs to make him more durable casting them takes a while, so I'm not sure how useful such a char would be in a fight. He would also still have pretty low health and endurance compared to a proper fighter.
Btw. spaces are large enough most of the time to fire some AoE spells. It's not as if you are only fighting in 2m wide corridors in this game.
The biggest challenge seems so far to get their placement and timing right while trying not to expose the wizard too much (having melee fighters engage the enemy comes in handy there).

 

[vorvek]

I have not touched the Cipher yet but I do not doubt your words. Just saying that a Chanter is a better Warrior-Mage than the Wizard. Chants don't get crippled by armor so you can go nuts with your Chanters gear. Being able to "cast" harmful effects or AoE dots while still fighting in melee is pretty awesome.

By the time you have chanted 3 or 4 verses as a chanter the combat is already over. You could as well be playing a paladin with modal auras.

 

[hiver]

The problem with a fighter mage would probably be that he is too fragile to really work.
He has a lot of self-buffs to make him more durable casting them takes a while, so I'm not sure how useful such a char would be in a fight. He would also still have pretty low health and endurance compared to a proper fighter.

of course. that would be because he is not a pure fighter.

and it would be quite appropriate that such a character build relies more on companions in the beginning.

Wish i had patience to do that kind of a run and a run with barbarian, which is next one for me. damnit.

Btw. spaces are large enough most of the time to fire some AoE spells. It's not as if you are only fighting in 2m wide corridors in this game.
The biggest challenge seems so far to get their placement and timing right while trying not to expose the wizard too much (having melee fighters engage the enemy comes in handy there).

true. i was referencing that high intellect affects size of AoEs - which you dont really need, since enemies all bunch up and fight you in small spaces during battle.

So you dont need high intelect for a fighter mage anyways... which means you can invest in other attributes... and you have items to boost whatever else you need.

 

[Gord]

and it would be quite appropriate that such a character build relies more on companions in the beginning
Wish i had patience to do that kind of a run and a run with barbarian, which is next one for me. damnit.

It would definitely help if some of the self-buffs could be pre-cast.

true. i was referencing that high intellect affects size of AoEs - which you dont really need, since enemies all bunch up and fight you in small spaces during battle.

So you dont need high intelect for a fighter mage anyways... which means you can invest in other attributes... and you have items to boost whatever else you need.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the bonus from intelligence is specifically addressing the additional "yellow range" of the AoEs, which is actually quite nice since your party members are not affected in that area, while enemies still are. It makes placement of AoE attacks much easier, especially when they bunch up around your chars, as you said.
Even if it affects both equally it does still help somewhat, but of course your mileage might vary depending on how you play your wizard.

 

[Zero Credibility]

It would definitely help if some of the self-buffs could be pre-cast.

And if they lasted long enough to matter. When you can only cast a spell a couple of times it's kind of pointless to waste it on a marginal buff that will not even last through the fight you are currently in. 10 seconds duration buff, ffs.

 

[Shannow]

Of course such things always also depend on party composition. But so far Aloth has been the game-changer for the tough fights. Just as wizards could be in IE games.
Fan of Flames has dealt up to 80 dmg... to several targets at once. I killed 3 trolls at once with FoF and only one of those was significantly hurt before.
Chill Fog: dmg + blindness
Blindness: Long lasting blindness
Expose vulnerabilities
Arcane assault
Just to give a few examples of fight-changing spells. And with Blast he's not bad at spreading the love when no spells are called for.
Now druid might be even better, but wizard is pretty good, imo.
If anything I'd criticize that there seems to be a big discrepancy between spells. And FoF is simply too powerful for lvl 1. 45-60 dmg (~80 dmg on a crit) when lvl 1 chars have ~40 hp...

 

[hiver]

If i can pre-buff so should the enemies. If they cant then i should not be able to have that cheat enabled.
I dont care for that type of gameplay.
Its another matter that nobody has done that specific issue right so far. And poE has a lot of problems in how movement is done and what extreme engagement does etc, etc,

I dont know if Int only influences the yellow band.
Just saying that high Int isnt necessary.

Shannow yes, those are the good spells to take. problem is its not much of a choice.

 

[Gord]

It's not just Fan of Flames, Slicken (the oil puddle spell) is extremely powerful as well and hardly any enemy seems to resist it.
In contrast many other spells seem pretty useless.
There's certainly still a lot of work ahead for Obsidian (or some intrepid modders).

 

[Athelas]

It's absurd how powerful their level 1 spells are compared to their higher level spells. Slicken and Fan of Flames have already been mentioned, but Eldritch Aim gives you +30 accuracy for up to 15 seconds, giving you a reliable chance of multi-critting entire groups of enemies with subsequent AoE spells.

Blast coupled with Penetrating Blast and Penetrating Shot is probably pretty good. Free AoE damage with 10 DR bypass.