Why isn't Oblivion a RPG?

[Vamp]

Post your reasons why you think Oblivion isn't a RPG but an adventure game with RPG elements, or whatever else you think it is. What makes it any less of a RPG that Gothic 3 or Bloodlines for example. Let's not compare it with older pure RPG games, but rather with recent titles that can be considered more RPGs than anything else.

PS: This is a neutral post. I don't hate Oblivion nor do I love it. Just make your argument without flames.

 

[Bradylama]

Ever heard the phrase 'She was asking for it?'

 

[whatusername]

Well, you can make near to none choices inside the quests, but in the ones you do, there are no consequences. Also, all the quests you get in Oblivion involve some kind of violence.

 

[Uz0rnaem]

In my personal opinion, Oblivion does count as an RPG, it's just a severely lackluster, not to say crappy one.

By the way, I would say the same if Oblivion was officially labeled "Action Adventure", because the action isn't that much fun at all and the adventures mostly annoyed me.

 

[dongle]

Just make your argument without flames.

Pssst, buddy. Wrong forums for that. . . .

 

[Sarvis]

Post your reasons why you think Oblivion isn't a RPG but an adventure game with RPG elements, or whatever else you think it is. What makes it any less of a RPG that Gothic 3 or Bloodlines for example. Let's not compare it with older pure RPG games, but rather with recent titles that can be considered more RPGs than anything else.

PS: This is a neutral post. I don't hate Oblivion nor do I love it. Just make your argument without flames.

Actually, I wouldn't really consider any of those games RPGs. They violate the separation between player and character by having all combat actions depend on player reflexes.

 

[Azarkon]

Who told you Oblivion isn't a RPG?

if it were not a RPG, why is it plastered everywhere on a site called RPGCodex?

 

[Lumpy]

Oblivion: Search found 6501 matches
Fallout: Search found 3361 matches

Good point.
I would say Oblivion is an RPG, because it allows you to create a character and role-play him. But since role-playing is extremely limited, it is a very poor RPG.
Although, let's not forget that you can rob some citizen and he attacks you and you kill him, then a guard wants to arrest you but you resist, and you run out of the town being chased by all the guards, then find an imperial legionnaire on a horse and kill him and steal his horse, and ride the horse into the forest and leave him there, and three days later when you return it's still there!!!

 

[RuySan]

what has choice and consequences got to do with it? That can make an RPG better, but they don't define an RPG.

Dungeon Master, Bards tale and SSI games had choices and consequences?? they were just hack n' slash

 

[Shoelip]

Well my definition of RPG is a PnP game like D&D. I'd call everything on the computer a cRPG. I'd say Oblivion isn't much of a cRPG because it's extremely shallow in every aspect except perhaps bumpmapping(get it, because bumpmapping makes 2d textures appear to have depth, rofl). I of course take into account the progress the genre has made over the years so if say, Champions of Krinn, had come out today it wouldn't be much of an RPG either.

 

[Kraszu]

I would say it is action hack&slash while Bloodlines/Gothic is action crpg because of choices & consequences.

 

[aries202]

HI

I think the reason behind why Oblivion isn't considered an RPG is this:

You can do whatever you want, it is free form.
This means you need to PLAY it. Not GAME it.

And by PLAY it, I mean the word play usually is connected to loosely unplanned activities in which you have a great say in how to these should get planned and implemented (carried out). Children playing outside on a hot summer's day is an an example of this.

By GAME, I mean the word 'game' usually is used about activities in which there are strict rules which must be adhered at all times etc. etc. Think of a boardgame i.e. Monopoly which has rules etc. etc.

And since the first Crpgs was very likely connected to or tied to the D&D rules, people have grown to expect that all Crpgs should use the D&D rules.
(and this is like the boardgame, I mentioned)

Then, Oblivion etc. comes along and makes it so that there no rules (or a few rules) to follow, as well as the player can make the rules up as he go along (sort of). Then people start to say 'but it is not an rpg'.

My answer would be: 'yes, it is an rpg, not just the rpg, you were expecting'.

I have two major grievances with Oblivion

1) the mini-games in which it is the player's skills with his fingers that decided the outcome of the mini-game, not the stats and skills the player's protagonist has.

2)
The annoying pop-up messages which guides you through the game as if you were a 5 or 6 year old.

However, these grievances do not make me think that Oblivion is not an rpg.

aries202

 

[Shoelip]

HI

I think the reason behind why Oblivion isn't considered an RPG is this:

You can do whatever you want, it is free form.

I thing you need to rethink your definition of "whatever you want" So what if you want to join the Siren's or sell the amulet of kings, or end something without slaughtering everyone, or tell someone that you are on their side instead of killing them or ride around on you horse and kill things without an annoying dismounting animation getting in the way?

 

[Twinfalls]

Christ, what a fucking annoying straw man.

Listen Vamp, the issue is not whether Oblivion can or cannot be called 'an RPG'. The mischief of Oblivion is the travesty of all the hard work made by the designers of Arena and especially Daggerfall, without which Oblivion wouldn't exist.

Daggerfall let you flesh out a character with its detailed character generation (look it up - no, it's NOT pulling your char's face into different shapes), with skills like climbing, swimming, streetwise, backstab, languages etc, with its sophisticated multiple-path Main Quest, with its restricted guilds, with its skill requirements to progress, with its guild-relevant quests, with its intelligent, selective level scaling, with its fixed MQ dungeons, with its choice of how you addressed NPCs, in a truly massive world, with its detailed lore, with its politics-and-intrigue backstory, with its no-black-and-white good/evil characters, with its decisions, from which you enjoyed consequences, and in a world with genuine atmosphere.

Oblivion did not.

 

[bozia2012]

New games are rather poor RPGs (last great games were Arcanum and ToEE).
For me a game that might be called RPG must have at least 2 of following features: "RPG mechanics"; "choices & consequences" or "PC type affecting gameplay and game experience".
Let's see how it works in Ob.:
- RPG mechanics (character system, skill based gameplay): there is some kind of system but it's flawed and with really stupid design - the level scaling, the character advancement and skills that affect only combat... but let's make it "check" (the mechanics exist)
- Choices & consequences: the only choice you'll make in this game is the order in which you'll complete the quests or what sword looks better with your armor. Railroaded gameplay and the story (daedra invasion) that has no impact on the world... Have you checked what's up in Kvatch later in the game?
- Pc type blah blah...: you'll always end with the same type of character (spellslinging swordsman or swordwaving sorcerer named after one of FF characters ) and yeah you can make a bit more non-standard char (pure monk) but you'll suck badly later in the game (tested). Also you can become a master of any guild having almost none of required skills... The game doesn't take notice of what character you're playing so it has almost no replayability value.

So as you see O. sucks at being an RPG and (picking from "big" titles) ToEE, Bloodlines or even.. KotOR2 are closer to RPG archetype. Do I deserve a dumbfuck now?

 

[Veracity]

The combat's clearly gone action or action-RPG hybrid, from what I understand, but beyond that I dunno - haven't played it and don't intend to, since it sounds very much like an arse game, so I'm not much fussed about finding out for myself what genres it belongs to.

About Daggerfall, though: were all those language skills actually good for anything? I remember briefly trying to fool around with them because they looked interesting/novel, but fairly promptly deciding they were just dud skills and never paying attention to them again.

 

[Twinfalls]

The higher your skill in Orcish, Giantish etc was, the higher the probability the respective creature would ignore you when encountered. So it was a non-combat or diplomat skill. It wasn't fleshed out much and didn't serve as well relatively as other skills. But it represents the whole New Bethesda ethos. Instead of expanding an element with such potential for interest and depth - they threw it out.

 

[Elwro]

Oblivion is an RPG. At least, the game always treated me as if I was roleplaying a retard.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

So as you see O. sucks at being an RPG and (picking from "big" titles) ToEE, Bloodlines or even.. KotOR2 are closer to RPG archetype. Do I deserve a dumbfuck now?

Are you stupid? Why should you get a dumbfuck for this at the codex?!

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

So as you see O. sucks at being an RPG and (picking from "big" titles) ToEE, Bloodlines or even.. KotOR2 are closer to RPG archetype. Do I deserve a dumbfuck now?

Are you stupid? Why should you get a dumbfuck for this at the codex?!

Because we all love Oblivion, otherwise we wouldn't talk about it so much.

 

[Mr Happy]

Instead of expanding an element with such potential for interest and depth - they threw it out.

Which can be said of so many of the features of daggerfall, and just about everything they were planning to do but didnt get around to implementing. (check out the daggerfall museum: http://www.svatopluk.com/daggerfall/museum/faq.stm)

 

[Data4]

HI

I think the reason behind why Oblivion isn't considered an RPG is this:

You can do whatever you want, it is free form.
This means you need to PLAY it. Not GAME it.

And by PLAY it, I mean the word play usually is connected to loosely unplanned activities in which you have a great say in how to these should get planned and implemented (carried out). Children playing outside on a hot summer's day is an an example of this.

By GAME, I mean the word 'game' usually is used about activities in which there are strict rules which must be adhered at all times etc. etc. Think of a boardgame i.e. Monopoly which has rules etc. etc.

And since the first Crpgs was very likely connected to or tied to the D&D rules, people have grown to expect that all Crpgs should use the D&D rules.
(and this is like the boardgame, I mentioned)

Then, Oblivion etc. comes along and makes it so that there no rules (or a few rules) to follow, as well as the player can make the rules up as he go along (sort of). Then people start to say 'but it is not an rpg'.

My answer would be: 'yes, it is an rpg, not just the rpg, you were expecting'.

I have two major grievances with Oblivion

1) the mini-games in which it is the player's skills with his fingers that decided the outcome of the mini-game, not the stats and skills the player's protagonist has.

2)
The annoying pop-up messages which guides you through the game as if you were a 5 or 6 year old.

However, these grievances do not make me think that Oblivion is not an rpg.

aries202

ROFL! Which thread at the ESF did you copy that from? Come on, now. You can tell us.

-D4

 

[sheek]

Oblivion is mostly an Action/Adventure hybrid with weak RPG features buit in to it (character generation is pretty much the limit of those features). It is also a bad game... a bad Action game and a bad Adventure game.

 

[Frankie]

Oblivion isn't an RPG for one simple reason. You don't have to THINK to play it.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

The higher your skill in Orcish, Giantish etc was, the higher the probability the respective creature would ignore you when encountered. So it was a non-combat or diplomat skill. It wasn't fleshed out much and didn't serve as well relatively as other skills. But it represents the whole New Bethesda ethos. Instead of expanding an element with such potential for interest and depth - they threw it out.

If they only created the skills for that particular concept - varying rates of enemy type encounter - they could just very well condense them all into a single one (something like Outdoorsman or Ranger), and have more powerful creatures require higher skill points in order to be avoided. An Orc requiring say, 20, and a Giant requiring 50, for instance. If they weren't planning on improving the skill or taking it further, that is. I think a good way to improve on the skill would be allowing a higher skill level to actively understand each creature's language and even engage in dialogue with them.