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Why is Fallout New Vegas considered good?

Cryomancer

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About weapons, IMO in a post apocalyptic world, with poor quality ammo, lever action rifles and revolvers would be far more common than full auto guns. FNV is better than 3 and 4 in this aspect. And there are no BS like supermutants with .32 pipe "rifles", an supermutant throwing anything would have much more power than a .32 cartridge against armored enemies.

Hell, name one game where I can use dragon breath ammo in my shotgun.

Would be cool if you could use it :

 

laclongquan

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I'm pretty sure you can get -100 Karma by just feeding 1 of your companions to the closeted cannibals on the Strip (can't remember the name off-hand), and I'm also pretty sure that doesn't count as a kill. Same thing with blowing up the Brotherhood of Steel bunker, I think.

It sounds difficult, but I'm sure it only *sounds* difficult.
I don't remember if I did that, but getting crap karma is easier than one thinks, but I also did this run eight years ago. Memory is a bit fuzzy.
Steal items owned by good people is -5 karma/action. Example, open a safe and take out item one by one can charge you 100 instead of 5.
Items owned by evil people have no such protection~
 
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Talking Deathclaws make sense expanding on the idea of the Deathclaws as a pre-war biological weapon.
The game itself explains that they are an accident, they weren't meant to be this smart and pretty much played dumb until the Enclave released them into Vault 13. Then the Enclave later finds out and eliminates them as a loose end.

Any sources from Fallout 1 about Deathclaws origins? i found info saying that they are:
Deathclaws appear to be mutated Jackson's Chameleons, the horned variety. There are a lot of similarities still present, but an even greater number of differences. The mutation factor is quite high. This species is highly intelligent, about the equivalent of an eight-year-old, with some individuals reaching human normal level. Their learning capacity is very high and they are capable of abstract thought and reasoning.}"
Although they do not have vocal chords, the deathclaws seem to mimic human speech much the same as a parrot does. I have yet to discover the exact mechanism behind this, so I am unable to say more at this time. Socially, they are pack animals with a very rigid code of ethics. They are led by an 'alpha male' who rules with the mutual consent of the pack. They appear to be extremely loyal to the pack as a whole, treating it as a family unit rather than having individual families as humans do.}"
"Deathclaws were originally created to replace humans during close-combat search-and-destroy missions. They were derived from mixed animal stock and then refined by the Master, using genetic manipulation. The resulting creature is almost unbelievably fast and powerful. Deathclaws are well named—they are the toughest animals that you will encounter in the Wastes."
But this is from Fallout 2, like i said they ruined Deathclaws for me, they had to come up with this insane bullshit lore to justify the talking deathclaws thing, i would prefer that they're just 'naturally' mutated monsters, like Radscorpions. But if the Fallout 2 Deathclaw lore was the original intended vision for the first game, then i might be wrong about Fallout 2 ruining them.
 
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agris

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I recently played through all of the Fallout games, and New Vegas writing definitely stands out. Not all of it is equally good, but when New Vegas writing is good, it's really good.
That’s an interesting take. It stood out more than F1’s vs F3/NV/4?
 

laclongquan

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Risking some F1 fanbois wrath here but F1 dialog is not actually comparable to FNV or even F2.
The most emotional-damage dialog in F1 is Vault Overseer, particularly the last scene. I dont remember anywhere else with that kind of level, or even close.
F2 has plenty of rage-inducing dialog though, from Lynnette, First Citizen of Vault City to Tandi in NCR (yes her) to Gecko's communication mishap with Enclave comm personel, to Navarra's Sergeant Dornan.
FNV is better with the VARIETY of emotional dialog you can have. Veronica, Cass, Raoul, Dean, Joshua Graham, Big MT's the good doctors, and Ulysses. With minor character we have Red Lucy (she remind me of VV in Bloodlines), The King, Benny, Pearl...
Leaving aside voice acting quality level, we are just talking about quality of dialog lines.
 

Butter

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I've seen people elsewhere say Fallout 1 has bad writing, and it's usually because they're narrowly focused on dialogue or quests. "Oh wow, I'm tasked with killing a bunch of scorpions. What an original concept Interplay!" and so forth. The merits of Fallout 1's writing aren't immediately obvious, for example the missing caravans quest. At first it's apparently a deathclaw problem, and the quest is likely the player's introduction to that enemy, but then you learn that super mutants were responsible, so what you thought was a side quest is actually linked to the main quest.
 

Levenmouth

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It was an RPG while also being a decent shooter. F3 didn't have aim-down-sights, so the shooting wasn't very good. F3 in general felt very rough around the edges and NV just polished it up pretty well. F4 has a lot of polish, but no real dialogue skill checks and the RPG element is kind of weak. Thus, NV is considered good. I don't really care for it nowadays as it just feels very dated, but I had a blast with it when it came out.
 

bloodlover

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The FPS part of F3 was so shit that I forgot about not having aim down sights until you just mentioned it. That's how "memorable" the combat was.
 

agris

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I've seen people elsewhere say Fallout 1 has bad writing, and it's usually because they're narrowly focused on dialogue or quests. "Oh wow, I'm tasked with killing a bunch of scorpions. What an original concept Interplay!" and so forth. The merits of Fallout 1's writing aren't immediately obvious, for example the missing caravans quest. At first it's apparently a deathclaw problem, and the quest is likely the player's introduction to that enemy, but then you learn that super mutants were responsible, so what you thought was a side quest is actually linked to the main quest.
I think it's right to focus on the writing, not more narrowly on the dialogue. It motivated the player and got out of the way of gameplay. Dialogue was mostly short and pulpy, I'd call it workmanlike and effective. The shit about emotional engagement can die in a fire.

When surveyed against F2, or god forbid the current landscape, I would take gets out of the way over the dreck churned out by narrative directors and senior gameplay writers any day.

But beyond that, Fallout 1's writing was occasionally impactful. Harold recounting visiting Maraposa, the various logs found throughout The Glow and elsewhere. By the game not being overly verbose, finding the right node on Harold's tree or those logs was like finding a jewel amongst the ash. It shined all the brighter by way of comparison.

When everything is supposed to make you Engaged Emotionally, to give you The Feels, then none of it does. Plus that kind of writing is hard to do well, and do you know who can't write very well? Video game writers.
 

vitellus

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Codex+ Now Streaming!
i would add that one factor that has really helped it is the fact it could run on a potato. when my potato couldn't run skyrim at launch, it could run new vegas; system requirements are 10gb of space, 2gb ram, and a geforce 6 series, and the bottom end of those things are 512mb.

fallout-new-vegas-system-requirements-graph.png


fyi: specs on that amd
 
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I remember when those 10gb felt like overkill for me at the time.
Now games are 10x that size, and it's mostly due to awful coding and optimization. Games have no reason to be bigger than 30/40gb.
 

Butter

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I remember when those 10gb felt like overkill for me at the time.
Now games are 10x that size, and it's mostly due to awful coding and optimization. Games have no reason to be bigger than 30/40gb.
Some games are deliberately made bloated so that players (console players in particular) will dread having to reinstall them, and so never uninstall them.
 

Levenmouth

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I remember when those 10gb felt like overkill for me at the time.
Now games are 10x that size, and it's mostly due to awful coding and optimization. Games have no reason to be bigger than 30/40gb.

QuickConcernedCurassow-size_restricted.gif

Brought to you by the guys who absolutely need to listen to uncompressed groaning in their FPS.
 

agris

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i actually think it's brought to you by the wide range of graphics hardware that big games are trying to support. LOD requires duplication of: texture, normal map, specular map. The geometry models are also LOD'd. That shit isn't generated on the fly - except in UE5, which is one of the cool things about it - so for every "texture" in the game there are easily 12-16 variants if not significantly more (3x per level of LOD, LOD steps can easily be 4+).
 
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That might be, but games are now measured as good if they take a certain space in your hard drive. Like people would not pay full price for a 4gb game, even if it was the best game ever. People used to say "a dollar, an hour", but it's really just "a dollar, two gigabytes"
 

Levenmouth

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I think that's true nowadays, but I distinctly remember that it was Titanfall 1 that had some obscene size (40GB or so) and a separate audio installer that made up for most of it. Granted, that was a long time ago.
 

Serus

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What did you do to not kill anyone, but still get the worst karma in the game? Tempted to try that.
Being a douche in dialog, lie, and betray people at almost every opportunity that I got. If there were quests situations where I could get two factions fighting each other, I did what an average codexer would do, and hid. Be sure to have some stealth boys ready. I don't remember in details of all the quests, but there are plenty of options to be a dick.
 

Volrath

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Seriously I don't get it.
Graphically, it's puke-inducing.
Gameplay-wise it's worse than any FPS in the genre. It's clunky, poorly-made and extremely badly designed and a complete disgrace for an FPS.
The AI is in shambles, literally.
The Factions are all rushed and expediated, Caesar's Legion(supposedly the beast from the East is a bunch of 30 dudes in football uniforms fighting with bat in an universe with guns??????) is a joke, Boomers faction is a joke, The Khans Faction is a joke. Enclave is a joke. Omerta is a Joke. The Strip, the casino is a place with roughly 10 dudes roaming around in the void.
The DLCs are all bad except Blood Money.
I feel like people like it for what it could have been rather than what it truly is: A shitty FPS with broken dialogues, broken quests, rushed storylines&Factions, A(bsent)I, blurry puke-inducing graphics, as well as an extremely buggy software.
And don't get me started with the open-world, it's a nothingburger, it is filled with nothing, and invisible walls to spice it up.

This thing is hailed as one of the best RPGs, this is madness.
Fallout 2 is hundredfold better than this piece of shit, there is no debate.
Go fuck yourself.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

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i would add that one factor that has really helped it is the fact it could run on a potato. when my potato couldn't run skyrim at launch, it could run new vegas; system requirements are 10gb of space, 2gb ram, and a geforce 6 series, and the bottom end of those things are 512mb.
It isn't much of an accomplishment for Fallout New Vegas to have somewhat higher system requirements than Fallout 3, released two years earlier, since the former is essentially a total conversion mod of the latter. :M
 

laclongquan

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i would add that one factor that has really helped it is the fact it could run on a potato. when my potato couldn't run skyrim at launch, it could run new vegas; system requirements are 10gb of space, 2gb ram, and a geforce 6 series, and the bottom end of those things are 512mb.
It isn't much of an accomplishment for Fallout New Vegas to have somewhat higher system requirements than Fallout 3, released two years earlier, since the former is essentially a total conversion mod of the latter. :M
Wrrrrong! Actually, FNV somewhat has less resource demanding than Fallout3. A computer that can run FNV doesnt always can run F3. But a computer that can run F3 can definitely run FNV.

It's both a matter of utilizing more art assets, more spawns, in a cell, or bigger cell in F3 than FNV. You generally can find more examples of that in F3 than FNV.

FNV most demanding scenes would be Hoover Dam battles, from inside the plants to the top lead to the camp. To this day, this can still bring a FNV-capable rig to its knee.

Compare to F3, such examples are quite numerous. The whole fucking Point Lookout environment is such one. Plenty of metro tunnel map are another. Lots of caverns are humongous. Battles are Prime Liberty move from Citadel to Jefferson Memorial is one, and the other is Prime Liberty attacking and get ambushed in Satellite communication complex.
EDIT: what do you mean Citation Needed? You can use any office PC to install F3 or FNV to test. You can see right away which game feel heavier. Office PC, mind, not graphic artist or gamer PC. Or hell, laptop. Any potato laptop can run FNV can have trouble with F3, but if it can run F3 it's most likely can run FNV.
 
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There's also the mess that was GFWL, which always added yet another shitshow on top of the usual Bethesda shenanigans.
 
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I recently played through all of the Fallout games, and New Vegas writing definitely stands out. Not all of it is equally good, but when New Vegas writing is good, it's really good.
That’s an interesting take. It stood out more than F1’s vs F3/NV/4?
Yes.

NV writing can occasionally be really thoughtful and make you take a moment. Sometimes the moment can even be in an otherwise boring questline. Like Chief Hanlon's suicide. The quest that got me there was annoying, but that conversation with him before his suicide... that was one of those quality NV moments that other Fallout's don't have.

There is an obvious connection with F2's writing - especially the political intrigue of Vault City/New Reno/NCR. You can tell that some of the people behind the games are the same, but F2 is not on the same level of depth. NV characters feel very human.

I found F4 writing to be better than F3. F3 is really weak in writing.

I'd rate F1 above F2.
 

Desman

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Old but still relevant.

https://vargass.medium.com/fallout-new-vegas-is-a-fundamentally-bad-game-db167fa41f3c

Fallout: New Vegas is a Fundamentally Flawed Game​


Varg Vikernes is a famous black metal musician, an esoteric cultist, a former murderer, a neo-Nazi, a probable arsonist, a video blogger, and a convicted anti-Semite. Due to his reputation as a reactionary musician he has gained a weird online following of edgy kids and reactionaries over the years. And before he was banned his video blogs were kinda mundane as he shared his opinions on media and politics, but infused with an ideology that mixed paganism, traditionalism and fascism.

His YouTube channel was deleted last year as part of a push by the company to reduce hate speech on the site, which seems to have worked so far. Varg still has a twitter account somehow, and he recently shared his edgy opinion on Fallout: New Vegas, and it proven to be a bit controversial among his followers since many of them really seem to like that game for some reason.

1*YOK5NyXqjGvJnxdUtPzziQ.png

okay he seems to have a problem with women using guns

Despite being a fascist with left-wing characteristics Varg’s assessment of the game is completely correct and valid. He might be a deranged pagan Nazbol, but he is still a real human being, and a gamer, and I think most people would have an similar negative reaction from just playing the opening of that game.

The gameplay in Fallout: New Vegas game is just mediocre, the overall visual style is pretty bad, the featureless desert environment is just empty and drab, and the main story is not impressive at all, especially during its first hours. The game has a few redeeming qualities such as interesting factions and branching questlines, but I think that all the positive elements in the game are completely overwhelmed by all the negative elements.

“Y a este propósito dice Plinio que no hay libro, por malo que sea, que no tenga alguna cosa buena; mayormente que los gustos no son todos unos, mas lo que uno no come, otro se pierde por ello.” — Anonymous, Lazarillo de Tormes
The bad elements in New Vegas are really bad. The thing that you first notice when starting the game is that the game looks completely hideous, not just the cutscenes but the desert environment looks absolutely appalling during the day, and I think there is no excuse for that since there are plenty of games that have beautiful desert environments. This game being ten years old is not an excuse either since very nice-looking games like Just Cause 2 and Mass Effect 2 were released the same year.

The absolutely disgusting look of the game is purely the result of bad art direction and terrible use of color, and this is the first thing anyone will notice as they start the game. The game looks less bad at night or in certain areas, but the overall look of the game is just really terrible.

1*blenwBZMaY78wkYyCYRlHQ.png

it’s almost as yellow as Human Revolution

Fallout: New Vegas has a cult following among some gamers, and so you would think that the gameplay, music, or story would be so good that it compensates for the lack of polish, or the serious lack of good art design. But this is not the case, especially since the gameplay is also bad, with the combat mechanics in particular being extremely rudimentary and don’t consist of more than shooting enemies with very poor AI until they die, with the only challenge being that some enemies are bullet sponges, such as the final boss of the game, which is awful unless you optimize your build, or have high speech skills that lets you press a button to win the game. It also doesn’t help that the menu interface is very clunky and makes selecting items very tedious.

The counter to this would be that this game is meant to be a story and dialogue-oriented game, which is partially true. The game has a lot of bad combat encounters, but many of them can be skipped with dialogue prompts that are purely dependent on skill checks, so if you raise some skills like barter and speech you can avoid many combat encounters. Which sounds interesting, in theory, but in practice this just means walking around empty environments looking for NPCs that provide the right dialogue prompt to progress through each quest.

The problem is that just walking back and forth around a big and empty open world environment with bad level design is just boring, especially if the climax of each quest is just a dialogue sequence or a bad combat encounter. The design of the world itself is not the worst thing ever, but it feels like they just took the hub-based design of older RPGs and put those hubs into a big desert sandbox, which means that exploration is mostly pointless unless you want to do a specific quest that’s related to a specific area.

If there wasn’t a fast travel option the game would be insanely tedious to play since a lot of quests mostly involve walking back and forth between distant locations, and there is no vehicles either. It’s also necessary to walk or “run” across the desert in order to reach a location at least once before it’s possible to fast travel to it, so this game involves a significant amount of slow and boring walks through an ugly environment. It doesn’t help that the music in most radio stations is not good or memorable.

I personally don’t get how anyone could tolerate all the bad things in this game, but if they can then the writing of the game should make the experience worth it, but I don’t think the story is good either. Although, the guys who wrote the game are not actually bad writers: The lore of the game is interesting, some characters and factions are memorable and a few of the jokes are good. But the story itself is not unique or memorable, the main quest basically consists of a short trek through the desert looking for the person that tried to kill you at the start of the game, then acquiring money to enter New Vegas, then finding that this was part of a greater conspiracy between multiple factions to take control of New Vegas.

But that’s just a summary, in theory this could make for a great story if handled well, but in practice it consists of just traveling across empty desert to reach New Vegas, and once you are there you meet each faction before picking one to side with, and then you have to literally spend endless hours just doing chores for the faction you picked before a quick final battle, which involves an awful boss battle, at least unless you max out certain dialogue skills. The factions themselves are amusing, but the story doesn’t have any unique twists. It’s just a bland, generic, and poorly paced main quest.

1*Ccnb9HlphdS4zn92jJSl9A.png

doesn’t help that the game has this seedy right-libertarian vibe

Fallout: New Vegas is a game about walking back and forth across a big and empty and ugly landscape doing chores that masquerade as quests, and those quests usually end with either a mediocre combat encounter, or a dialogue sequence that allows you to skip said combat. It’s the kind of game design that maybe could be seen as acceptable in a text-based adventure game, but for an action RPG it’s just dull and boring.

More importantly, a story cannot be separated from the medium by which it’s told, and a video game’s story is told through the game itself. If a game consists of walking around back and forth around a big and ugly environment then that’s what the story is about, having a massive amount of quest and dialogue trees does not change this fundamental issue.

“The story is part of the game. It doesn’t exist as a separate script that is handed off to game designers which they are expected to somehow make compelling through puzzles and combat…the story develops while trying to solve the problem of how to make a fun game.” — Marc Laidlaw
 

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