Why AP is FAIL: 2 reasons

[Fat Dragon]

Come now, it should be obvious that "threaten" is going to be something more subtle.

And? The response will be the same most likely "uh ok ok I'll tell you!".

Different failures though. With threaten failure probably just means you don't get what you demanded. Failure for draw gun option most likely means you kill the guy which could have a consequence later on.

 

[MetalCraze]

You do remember that there are no stat checks in AP dialogues? And there will be no failures - remember - "every dialogue option is rewarding" and "we don't want to punish the player" courtesy of Obsidian.
But as your argument clearly shows the problem is still there - aka "so what Thorthon will really do?". This "dialogue" system is so retarded - why didn't they wrote full phrases instead of non-descriptive words? I can only think about one possible reason - railroading.

Alpha Protocol seems to be better in this regard because you're sure what Thorton will do if you tell him to draw a gun

Yeah you will be sure that by drawing a gun he will not shoot the guy.

 

[Fat Dragon]

You do remember that there are no stat checks in AP dialogues?

I didn't know that. Are there really no dialog skills in the game? Do you have a source where this is confirmed? First I've heard of it then again I haven't read all the previews.

 

[MetalCraze]

You do remember that there are no stat checks in AP dialogues?

I didn't know that. Are there really no dialog skills in the game? Do you have a source where this is confirmed? First I've heard of it then again I haven't read all the previews.

There was Thorton's full stat list during presentation. I don't remember any dialog skills there.

EDIT: It looks like there even won't be a stealth approach - just watch a presentation video - every part of the gameplay shown has Thorton running in tight corridors full of enemies and gunning them down.
While Avellone talks about how his favorite is stealth approach. Obsidian is so full of shit.

 

[M_I_C_K_E_Y_M_O_U_S_E]

Dear Skyway.

As you've already pointed out they are selling it to the console corridor shooter crowd. Stealth does not count as corridor shooter. It is not a game of realism. All computer RPGS are rail roading. We only know what Obsidian want the target audience to know.

Now kindly shut the fuck up and be less retarded. We already know what you think of the game, it is forever burnt into our minds already

 

[MetalCraze]

All computer RPGS are rail roading

Do I need to say more?

 

[Dionysus]

There was Thorton's full stat list during presentation. I don't remember any dialog skills there.

EDIT: It looks like there even won't be a stealth approach - just watch a presentation video - every part of the gameplay shown has Thorton running in tight corridors full of enemies and gunning them down.
While Avellone talks about how his favorite is stealth approach. Obsidian is so full of shit.

It's possible that some of the skills give you dialog options, but it is true that there are no obvious dialog skills.

However, we have seen stealth, stealth takedowns, and we've heard about stealth related gadgetry (noise makers). The levels do seem to be a bit cramped, though.

 

[MetalCraze]

Stealth takedowns now means stealth? Hahaha
"All rpgs are railroading" (esp. Fallouts)
"stealth = stealth takedowns" (esp. Thief series and Deus Ex)

This new wave of Obsidian fanbois is so retarded. Sorry but it's true.

stealth related gadgetry (noise makers).

Noise is very stealthy.

Stealth is when you sneak somewhere undetected and do something undetected with minimum of combat. If not totally without combat. Because stealth means go unnoticed.
Stealth is not when you run around gunning down hordes of enemies in tight corridors in daylight with ocassional takedowns from behind.

 

[M_I_C_K_E_Y_M_O_U_S_E]

Noise maker = a coin you throw at a particular location to distract a guard = subtle.

 

[Dionysus]

Stealth is when you sneak somewhere undetected and do something undetected with minimum of combat. If not totally without combat. Because stealth means go unnoticed.
Stealth is not when you run around gunning down hordes of enemies in tight corridors in daylight with ocassional takedowns from behind.

You can use noise in stealth games to distract enemies, so you can sneak by. Stealth takedowns are used to take someone out without alerting others. This is pretty elementary stuff, so I'm a bit surprised that you aren't aware of this sort of thing.

 

[MetalCraze]

Stealth takedowns are used to take someone out without alerting others. This is pretty elementary stuff, so I'm a bit surprised that you aren't aware of this sort of thing.

Please show me a single proof that there is stealth in AP. And how you can use stealth takedowns in corridors full of enemies.

In Deus Ex you could complete whole levels without killing anyone. That's stealth. A single stealth takedown where Thorton just goes further and guns down 3 enemies standing in the linear corridor is not stealth. It is a console way of implementing gimmicks and call them "Stealth"

 

[M_I_C_K_E_Y_M_O_U_S_E]

Skyway, you're comparing a full game to a preview of an incomplete game and asking for a comparison. Do you see the difference? And they showed a scene where you're hacking something... probably some camera or computer.

 

[Dionysus]

Please show me a single proof that there is stealth in AP. And how you can use stealth takedowns in corridors full of enemies.

In Deus Ex you could complete whole levels without killing anyone. That's stealth. A single stealth takedown where Thorton just goes further and guns down 3 enemies standing in the linear corridor is not stealth. It is a console way of implementing gimmicks and call them "Stealth"

OK, I understand what you are getting at. If you expect to see a preview in which MT sneaks through an entire level, then you are nuts. That sort of marketing wouldn't be effective or even practical. We've seen sneaking in the previews, we've seen stealth takedowns, and we've heard about the gadgets and the fact that the devs put a stealth path in the game. Honestly, I really don't see why you would doubt that stealth will be possible. It's possible in games like Bloodlines and Oblivion. Obviously that doesn't mean that it will be as well implemented as it was in Deus Ex, but I bet they could do as well as most in this area.

 

[MetalCraze]

So now you understand why you obsidianites are no better than ESF'ers?

"you can't judge game until you play it"
"It is too early to judge"
"We know next to nothing about the game"
"Even though there is a shitton of previews, interviews, gameplay trailers but fanboi selective reading doesn't let me see all that - it is all a lie!"
I mean some of your bunch even said something along the lines of "I don't care what developer said this game is gonna b awsum".
And you are wondering why I treat your bunch like a bitch?

And they showed a scene where you're hacking something... probably some camera or computer.

And it was a stupid minigame not dependable on stats. So your point is?

If you expect to see a preview in which MT sneaks through an entire level

Not an entire level but 5 minutes of stealth will easily do the trick.

the fact that the devs put a stealth path in the game

Show me this fact - apparently you know why it is a fact and not a marketing trick.

It's possible in games like Bloodlines

Yes and it was shit there. And in Bloodlines it was based on stealth stats. And in AP it is...?

and Oblivion.

There was stealth in Oblivion? You call that stealth?
Wait a sec. Why I even argue with you?

 

[M_I_C_K_E_Y_M_O_U_S_E]

And they showed a scene where you're hacking something... probably some camera or computer.

And it was a stupid minigame not dependable on stats. So your point is?

The Mass Effect Minigames were not playable unless you had the skill points.

So you just keep your head in the sand like a good skyway and compare previews to 11 year old games like the fan boy you are.

Skyway, name one game - just one, that you didn't default to shit in comparison to previous games of its kind.

 

[MetalCraze]

In Alpha Protocol they are unplayable if you don't have skills so? It is just another proof that skills are useless because no matter your skill you still have to twitch through the minigame.

So your point is?

 

[M_I_C_K_E_Y_M_O_U_S_E]

You've just made my point effectively with that admission so no.

 

[MetalCraze]

So you just keep your head in the sand like a good skyway and compare previews to 11 year old games like the fan boy you are.

Skyway, name one game - just one, that you didn't default to shit in comparison to previous games of its kind.

Ah I forgot about the "nostalgia" fanboi defence.

BTW a good example is Splinter Cell 3 out of more recent games.

 

[M_I_C_K_E_Y_M_O_U_S_E]

You're a master of the fanboy nostalgia. Please teach me your pro skills.

 

[Longshanks]

"Even though there is a shitton of previews, interviews, gameplay trailers but fanboi selective reading doesn't let me see all that - it is all a lie!"

There really aren't a shit ton of previews as yet. There are a couple repeated across various sites, and the recent gameplay video.

If you expect to see a preview in which MT sneaks through an entire level

Not an entire level but 5 minutes of stealth will easily do the trick.

There's barely been 5 minutes of gameplay video yet.

the fact that the devs put a stealth path in the game

Show me this fact - apparently you know why it is a fact and not a marketing trick.

Ah, Skyway...

I mean some of your bunch even said something along the lines of "I don't care what developer said this game is gonna b awsum".

Flip flop?

It's possible in games like Bloodlines

Yes and it was shit there. And in Bloodlines it was based on stealth stats. And in AP it is...?

AP has a Stealth stat too.It also has various stealth gadgets and clothing, didn't you see those awesome sunglasses and face paint I posted earlier? There's no doubt there's stealth in the game, it's just a question of its extent, which we cannot know at this stage, so stop pretending you do. We do have one example, from the E3 demo, where you can either enter the embassy through force, charm or stealth (enter through roof or rear door).

AP Stealth skill:

 

[Dionysus]

Not an entire level but 5 minutes of stealth will easily do the trick.

You haven't seen 5 full minutes of anything at this point.

Show me this fact - apparently you know why it is a fact and not a marketing trick.

I said we've heard about it. You can feel free to think that everything good that you hear is a marketing trick, but I assume that you will apply the same skeptical ear to everything "bad" that you hear. Are you sure that it is a fact that they don't want to punish player choice? Are you selectively sticking your head in the sand? Like I've said, there's nothing dubious about their claims concerning stealth.

Yes and it was shit there. And in Bloodlines it was based on stealth stats. And in AP it is...?

... based on the stealth skill? Seriously, watch some of the videos that you are supposedly critiquing.

Look, if your point is that the stealth won't be as good as Deus Ex, then I suspect you are right, but that really isn't a terrible condemnation. I will be surprised and disappointed if it isn't better than Bloodlines in this area.

There was stealth in Oblivion? You call that stealth?

Oh, yeah it was almost on par with Bloodlines. They both had stealth missions, and missions that weren't really designed for sneaking, but I could still do it because it was wicked easy.

 

[scient]

Is it possible to disable auto-aim? God I hate that shit on Wii, it makes FPS's retarded. While trying to google the answer I came across this on Obsidian forums.

For me, combat in KotOR was much more fun than in Mass Effect - you could actually sit back and watch what was going on, rather than frantically searching around for things to aim at and missing everything else that was going on (like background detail, or what your companions were doing). I prefer combat based on the character's stats. However, after two and a half games of combat based on character stats, it looks like Obsidian wants to try its hand at something different. I think that's understandable. So long as there's something in there that makes it possible for me to play the game without reflexes (Mass Effect-style auto-aim, or a very generous difficulty slider maybe), I guess it's okay, though it's not really what I'd choose myself.

Why not an option to have the AI take control of Thorton? Presumably there's AI controlling the NPCs, but would it be capable of controlling the PC as well? It would succeed or fail according to how you'd developed his skills and equipment, plus if you were combat inclined you could watch how the AI got through an area, then go back and try it yourself.

Oh lawd aiming iz teh hard...

 

[MetalCraze]

There really aren't a shit ton of previews as yet. There are a couple repeated across various sites, and the recent gameplay video.

There are at least 10 different previews now + 2 gameplay videos and 1 trailer.
Shouldn't it be fanbois who must know more than me?

There's barely been 5 minutes of gameplay video yet.

Nearly 15 minutes of gameplay were shown during the first AP presentation video.

Flip flop?

And what does it have to do with my arguments? Oh probably my arguments are along the lines "I don't give a shit what Feargus said about 15 years olds as a target audience! It isn't true!" - I actually pay more attention to what dev says than you fanbois and compare it to the stuff in previews - as evidenced above.
No difference eh?

didn't you see those awesome sunglasses and face paint I posted earlier?

Sunglasses now help to stay unnoticed? Well at least they don't give +1 to charisma. Oh wait - there are no dialogue skills - good to know.

There's no doubt there's stealth in the game, it's just a question of its extent, which we cannot know at this stage, so stop pretending you do.

I don't pretend I know - but so far all stealth that was shown ends with killing someone while he isn't looking. Great stealth my ass.
Stealth skill? Good - but the again - judging by gameplay videos and how you put down a horde of enemies during the start of the game and how dev talks about how you use stealth skill to kill more people I didn't see how it can be good.
Damn even devs go like "and then you can use your stealth skill and kill him yay!"

You haven't seen 5 full minutes of anything at this point.

No it's you who haven't seen 5 full minutes of anything at this point. It isn't my fault.
Stop being a dumb fanboi and try to dig something on the shit game you protect so much for once - otherwise your following arguments weigh nothing.


I just rewatched this video
http://www.gametrailers.com/gametrailer ... &ch=1&sd=1
I can't believe Chris said that characters were developed by Mitsoda and Annie Carlsson. Damn remembering how "awsum" characters were in SoZ - we can expect some boring one-liner cliche collection in AP.
Not mentioning that Avellone himself said that the target audience is teenagers.
That explains AP fanbois.
And you still expect AP to have a good writing?

Also the stuff at 11:47 where Chris Parker talks about skills makes me lol
"The big skills are about how you kill people, how you blow them up, how you break their necks, you have skills for pistols, you have skills for shotguns, you have skills for heavy rifles blah blah blah you have a chainshot with which you can pam pam pam they're dead - and so you can live a life of a superspy"
That is some RPG with stealth I tell you.

 

[trais]

Also:
Actiony gameplay - check
Stupid dialog system - check
Minigames - check

Skyway's right, AP is going to suck.

 

[Longshanks]

There really aren't a shit ton of previews as yet. There are a couple repeated across various sites, and the recent gameplay video.

There are at least 10 different previews now + 2 gameplay videos and 1 trailer.
Shouldn't it be fanbois who must know more than me?

There's barely been 5 minutes of gameplay video yet.

Nearly 15 minutes of gameplay were shown during the first AP presentation video.

From what I've seen, though I've not followed the game that closely, there are only 2 or three significantly different previews. And there's not 15 minutes of gameplay footage. That video had snippets of footage, some of them played more than once, along with interviews.

I'm certainly not a fanboy, am very much undecided about AP. Was barely following the game before I started discussing it with you.

Depending on gaming preferences there's enough info to make a judgement on the game. Personally, I need to see more. Most of the criticisms you've made have been flimsy at best.

Flip flop?

And what does it have to do with my arguments? Oh probably my arguments are along the lines "I don't give a shit what Feargus said about 15 years olds as a target audience! It isn't true!" - I actually pay more attention to what dev says than you fanbois and compare it to the stuff in previews - as evidenced above.
No difference eh?

You were criticising Obsidian "fanboys" of disregarding developer's comments that they did not like. You did the same with the "stealth path" comment, passing it off as PR talk.

Oh wait - there are no dialogue skills - good to know.

Now there's something worth complaining about. No stat checks are not confirmed yet, but no dialogue skill looks to be and no skill checks is a strong possibility.

There's no doubt there's stealth in the game, it's just a question of its extent, which we cannot know at this stage, so stop pretending you do.

I don't pretend I know - but so far all stealth that was shown ends with killing someone while he isn't looking. Great stealth my ass.
Stealth skill? Good - but the again - judging by gameplay videos and how you put down a horde of enemies during the start of the game and how dev talks about how you use stealth skill to kill more people I didn't see how it can be good.
Damn even devs go like "and then you can use your stealth skill and kill him yay!"

This would suck. And I'll complain along with you if it's the case.

I just rewatched this video
http://www.gametrailers.com/gametrailer ... &ch=1&sd=1
I can't believe Chris said that characters were developed by Mitsoda and Annie Carlsson. Damn remembering how "awsum" characters were in SoZ - we can expect some boring one-liner cliche collection in AP.

Their work is no longer in the game. Also, note that SoZ took a different direction, and focused on a wide variety of different dialogue and stat checks, not on depth. If the game were so bad, and there were so much released info, I'm not sure you'd be clutching at straws so desperately.

Not mentioning that Avellone himself said that the target audience is teenagers.

He also said stealth is his favourite pathway, and a number of developers have mentioned the existence of a stealth path. Yet you don't believe that? Interesting.

Also the stuff at 11:47 where Chris Parker talks about skills makes me lol
"The big skills are about how you kill people, how you blow them up, how you break their necks, you have skills for pistols, you have skills for shotguns, you have skills for heavy rifles blah blah blah you have a chainshot with which you can pam pam pam they're dead - and so you can live a life of a superspy"
That is some RPG with stealth I tell you.

The game is looking too combat focused and streamlined for my tastes also. But there are aspects that are more positive.